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  #31  
Old 04-17-17, 12:03 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Was he certified insane? Cause I posted a video of him planning, seeking out and murdering a human. The basis for crazy and not crazy seems to me to be able to tell right from wrong. And this guy admitted it was wrong on camera. Emotionally upset or stressed out seems like a far stretch from "insane".
All of that...

Can't get the death penalty for this crime.

BTW...he's almost certainly NOT legally insane because he fled. "Awareness of the wrongfulness of your conduct" generally means that anyone who flees the scene of the crime will not be able to utilize NGRI (not guilty by reason of insanity).
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  #32  
Old 04-17-17, 12:06 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
All of that...

Can't get the death penalty for this crime.

BTW...he's almost certainly NOT legally insane because he fled. "Awareness of the wrongfulness of your conduct" generally means that anyone who flees the scene of the crime will not be able to utilize NGRI (not guilty by reason of insanity).
Since when can't a sane person be put to death for using a gun in first degree murder?
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  #33  
Old 04-17-17, 12:08 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Since when can't a sane person be put to death for using a gun in first degree murder?
Since Furman vs. Georgia (1972).
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  #34  
Old 04-17-17, 12:08 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Yes.

Based on the known facts, you can't get the death penalty for this crime.
I'm gonna need a source for this. Your past has me skeptical on any legal advice you give.
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  #35  
Old 04-17-17, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm gonna need a source for this. Your past has me skeptical on any legal advice you give.
Lol yeah... I remember clearly the Tony Stewart case. He was convinced Stewart was going to be charged. I distinctly remember offering my legal services after that lol.
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  #36  
Old 04-17-17, 12:11 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
I'm gonna need a source for this. Your past has me skeptical on any legal advice you give.
2929.04 Death penalty or imprisonment - aggravating and mitigating factors.

(A) Imposition of the death penalty for aggravated murder is precluded unless one or more of the following is specified in the indictment or count in the indictment pursuant to section 2941.14 of the Revised Code and proved beyond a reasonable doubt:

(1) The offense was the assassination of the president of the United States or a person in line of succession to the presidency, the governor or lieutenant governor of this state, the president-elect or vice president-elect of the United States, the governor-elect or lieutenant governor-elect of this state, or a candidate for any of the offices described in this division. For purposes of this division, a person is a candidate if the person has been nominated for election according to law, if the person has filed a petition or petitions according to law to have the person's name placed on the ballot in a primary or general election, or if the person campaigns as a write-in candidate in a primary or general election.

(2) The offense was committed for hire.

(3) The offense was committed for the purpose of escaping detection, apprehension, trial, or punishment for another offense committed by the offender.

(4) The offense was committed while the offender was under detention or while the offender was at large after having broken detention. As used in division (A)(4) of this section, "detention" has the same meaning as in section 2921.01 of the Revised Code, except that detention does not include hospitalization, institutionalization, or confinement in a mental health facility or intellectual disabilities facility unless at the time of the commission of the offense either of the following circumstances apply:

(a) The offender was in the facility as a result of being charged with a violation of a section of the Revised Code.

(b) The offender was under detention as a result of being convicted of or pleading guilty to a violation of a section of the Revised Code.

(5) Prior to the offense at bar, the offender was convicted of an offense an essential element of which was the purposeful killing of or attempt to kill another, or the offense at bar was part of a course of conduct involving the purposeful killing of or attempt to kill two or more persons by the offender.

(6) The victim of the offense was a law enforcement officer, as defined in section 2911.01 of the Revised Code, whom the offender had reasonable cause to know or knew to be a law enforcement officer as so defined, and either the victim, at the time of the commission of the offense, was engaged in the victim's duties, or it was the offender's specific purpose to kill a law enforcement officer as so defined.

(7) The offense was committed while the offender was committing, attempting to commit, or fleeing immediately after committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, rape, aggravated arson, aggravated robbery, or aggravated burglary, and either the offender was the principal offender in the commission of the aggravated murder or, if not the principal offender, committed the aggravated murder with prior calculation and design.

(8) The victim of the aggravated murder was a witness to an offense who was purposely killed to prevent the victim's testimony in any criminal proceeding and the aggravated murder was not committed during the commission, attempted commission, or flight immediately after the commission or attempted commission of the offense to which the victim was a witness, or the victim of the aggravated murder was a witness to an offense and was purposely killed in retaliation for the victim's testimony in any criminal proceeding.

(9) The offender, in the commission of the offense, purposefully caused the death of another who was under thirteen years of age at the time of the commission of the offense, and either the offender was the principal offender in the commission of the offense or, if not the principal offender, committed the offense with prior calculation and design.

(10) The offense was committed while the offender was committing, attempting to commit, or fleeing immediately after committing or attempting to commit terrorism.
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  #37  
Old 04-17-17, 12:11 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2929.04
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  #38  
Old 04-17-17, 12:12 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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LolCat has already tried this case in his head.

And yet... Ohio still puts people to death for murder. 🤔
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  #39  
Old 04-17-17, 12:14 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
LolCat has already tried this case in his head.

And yet... Ohio still puts people to death for murder. 🤔
Which required element did this carbuncle do that allows the state to kill him (he'd likely die of old age first anyway)?
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  #40  
Old 04-17-17, 12:15 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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This was obviously terrorism. Not sure how anyone could miss that.
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  #41  
Old 04-17-17, 12:18 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
This was obviously terrorism. Not sure how anyone could miss that.
Don't strain a muscle with that stretch.
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  #42  
Old 04-17-17, 12:19 PM
4cards 4cards is offline
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...dude was probably pissed that Trump wouldn't release all his tax returns and took it out on the deceased.
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  #43  
Old 04-17-17, 12:23 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
Which required element did this carbuncle do that allows the state to kill him (he'd likely die of old age first anyway)?
http://www.cleveland.com/court-justi..._schedule.html

I stopped reading after I found the first two death row inmates here in Ohio that fit the same "pattern" as this guy. Both sentenced to death for what appears to be killing just to kill. No robbery, no predetermined factors as payed out by Cat.
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  #44  
Old 04-17-17, 12:23 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
LolCat has already tried this case in his head.

And yet... Ohio still puts people to death for murder. 🤔
Judicious choice of cellmate or exercise hours may be the best option at this point......
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  #45  
Old 04-17-17, 12:29 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Judicious choice of cellmate or exercise hours may be the best option at this point......
See "Dalmer, Jeffery".
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  #46  
Old 04-17-17, 12:33 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
http://www.cleveland.com/court-justi..._schedule.html

I stopped reading after I found the first two death row inmates here in Ohio that fit the same "pattern" as this guy. Both sentenced to death for what appears to be killing just to kill. No robbery, no predetermined factors as payed out by Cat.
Both #1 and #2 appear to fall under specification #3:

Quote:
(3) The offense was committed for the purpose of escaping detection, apprehension, trial, or punishment for another offense committed by the offender.
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  #47  
Old 04-17-17, 12:35 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
http://www.cleveland.com/court-justi..._schedule.html

I stopped reading after I found the first two death row inmates here in Ohio that fit the same "pattern" as this guy. Both sentenced to death for what appears to be killing just to kill. No robbery, no predetermined factors as payed out by Cat.
So you didn't think reading the actual law was of any benefit?
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  #48  
Old 04-17-17, 12:36 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
So you didn't think reading the actual law was of any benefit?
slide is a bit stubborn
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  #49  
Old 04-17-17, 12:38 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
slide is a bit stubborn
Holding on to one's beliefs is certainly more important than actually being right.
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  #50  
Old 04-17-17, 12:45 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
So you didn't think reading the actual law was of any benefit?
The actual law is set by precedent. Without delving into it, I read through the list of death row inmates and their crimes and within the first 10 I found 2 that killed just to kill, with premeditation. Not under age, not to rob or commit another felony, not to escape... just to kill. Those guys should not be on death row according to that Supreme Court ruling guideline. Yet there they are. I'm certain of you dig you'll find another ruling to counter Cats single citing.
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  #51  
Old 04-17-17, 12:48 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Cat is the same guy that INSISTED Stewart would be charged and also argued that being arrested meant the same as jail time. I have no faith in his Attorney abilities short of a plea bargain, which I can do myself.
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  #52  
Old 04-17-17, 12:49 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
The actual law is set by precedent. Without delving into it, I read through the list of death row inmates and their crimes and within the first 10 I found 2 that killed just to kill, with premeditation. Not under age, not to rob or commit another felony, not to escape... just to kill. Those guys should not be on death row according to that Supreme Court ruling guideline. Yet there they are. I'm certain of you dig you'll find another ruling to counter Cats single citing.
Actual law is set by statute. Precedent applies when there is a question on what the law means. If prosecutor cabezadecaballo successfully made his case of terrorism and it was upheld, that would create precedent in regard to clarifying the single line in orc 2929.04.
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  #53  
Old 04-17-17, 12:49 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Without delving into it...
Probably a wise choice when you're wrong.
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  #54  
Old 04-17-17, 01:00 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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I agree the guy should be executed. But if what has been posted is the law, then it doesn't sound like it fits.

In that case, seems like the parameters for the death penalty need widened.
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  #55  
Old 04-17-17, 01:10 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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Is this not considered premeditated (#7 in CA's post)? Does it have to be premeditated in a manor which the person knows exactly WHO he is going to shoot and kill? Or just that he knows he is going to pick some random person, and shoot and kill them?

EDIT: nvm, apparently that would only apply if he had previously committed raped, burglary, robbery, or arson? WTF, weird law.

Last edited by WinstonSmith; 04-17-17 at 02:16 PM.
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  #56  
Old 04-17-17, 01:59 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queencitybuckeye View Post
Actual law is set by statute. Precedent applies when there is a question on what the law means. If prosecutor cabezadecaballo successfully made his case of terrorism and it was upheld, that would create precedent in regard to clarifying the single line in orc 2929.04.
And change how that particular law is enforced and interpretation of said law. Laws are made/changed/revamped by precedent. Semantics. They have changed entire laws by changing the definition of a word. I would bet that almost every law out there has been changed by precedent.
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  #57  
Old 04-17-17, 02:04 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
Probably a wise choice when you're wrong.
Explain how Donald Ketterer in the link I provided fits any of the predetermined "laws" set down by the SC ruling Cat cited. The man got high, and chopped another man up. End of story. Murder for the sake of murder, much as this case. Except this case was clearly premeditated.
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  #58  
Old 04-17-17, 02:11 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by Possessed View Post
Explain how Donald Ketterer in the link I provided fits any of the predetermined "laws" set down by the SC ruling Cat cited. The man got high, and chopped another man up. End of story. Murder for the sake of murder, much as this case. Except this case was clearly premeditated.
From here: http://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod...-Ohio-5283.pdf

Quote:
In the late afternoon on February 24, 2003, defendant-appellant,
53-year-old Donald Ketterer, beat and stabbed 85-year-old Lawrence Sanders to death in Hamilton, Ohio. Ketterer then stole money and other property and drove Sandersís car away. Ketterer pleaded guilty to burglary, aggravated burglary, aggravated robbery, grand theft of a motor vehicle, and aggravated murder and was sentenced to death.
Which satisfies...

Quote:
(7) The offense was committed while the offender was committing, attempting to commit, or fleeing immediately after committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, rape, aggravated arson, aggravated robbery, or aggravated burglary, and either the offender was the principal offender in the commission of the aggravated murder or, if not the principal offender, committed the aggravated murder with prior calculation and design.
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  #59  
Old 04-17-17, 02:14 PM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Aside from the legal side of all this...

Any updates since this morning when his cell phone pinged against a tower near Erie, PA?
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  #60  
Old 04-17-17, 02:22 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...omicide-video/
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