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  #1  
Old 04-15-17, 08:50 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Changes you would make to the OHSAA basketball playoffs

Any changes that you think would improve the OHSAA basketball playoffs?
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  #2  
Old 04-16-17, 02:03 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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1) Every team does not make the playoffs

2) Teams placed in tournament brackets according to the end of season rankings (no more choosing where you play)

3) Districts made up of a hard set of schools each for every region


4) Increase state tournament to include 16 teams, 4 teams per region. Regional 1 seeds play 4 seeds and 2 seeds play 3 seeds. An extra 3rd place game would need to be added to the regional tournaments. This allows for years when there are multiple top teams from the same region to be able to still make it to the state championship instead of knocking each other off in the regional tournament. You could now theoretically have a state final matchup of two teams from same region.

5) If the previous two rules are created it might be beneficial to also create two separate district and regional tournaments, applying the same idea for the regional to state tournament, to the district to regional tournament. Maybe make it so the 2 teams from the district championship then make the 8 team regional tournament. This way multiple teams from a district still have a chance to make the state tournament. This change added with the state tournament expansion means you could now potentially see a state championship of two teams from the same district.

6) Finally, have all four division state championships games for both boys and girls the same weekend together.

Saturday

Boys D4
Girls D3
Boys D2
Girls D1

Sunday

Girls D4
Boys D3
Girls D2
Boys D1

Last edited by Philly_Cat; 04-16-17 at 02:29 AM.
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  #3  
Old 04-16-17, 04:32 AM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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So only State tourney matters?

Just to be clear on the math here. You're opening the door for a team with 3 losses in the district and regional tournaments to go to state? 2nd in District and 4th at regional would be 3 losses. And if you lower the number of teams in a district by not letting everyone in (which is another can of worms deciding how to do that), then a team could have a 3-3 tourney record and make it to state. That's with 8-team districts (2-1) and a 4th place Regional placing (1-2).

BTW, 8-team districts in the Southwest would only eliminate one round of games, for all the ranking and seeding headaches caused.
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  #4  
Old 04-16-17, 04:59 AM
aztecjim aztecjim is offline
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1)Ignore the six OHSAA districts and divide each division in to 16 equal sized districts (12 or 13 schools each)
2)I would not mind a Harbin style system to determine seeding. Gets rid of politicking, favoritism, etc.
3)Traditional seeding. First round is 5-12, 6-11, 7-10, etc.

It works for football so why not?
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  #5  
Old 04-16-17, 09:36 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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I don't think any major changes are needed but I think all districts should conduct their tournaments in the same fashion as it relates to seeding.
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  #6  
Old 04-16-17, 09:38 AM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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Philly Cat---- DO NOT FORCE us to watch girls games by putting them with the boys game....

The first thing I would change is to go back the way it used to be in the Miami Valley where one can see all the games instead of now having to choose which games to go to....

I also do not like the choosing of a spot on a bracket.... pair up according to seeds and one regional bracket..... hence, one could have a Cincinnati area school playing a Dayton area in the first rounds....

at the state level, one ticket should be all you need to see your divisions final 4. Stop the Greed..... and please do not stick the home town fans behind the baskets while the big wigs are at mid court.
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  #7  
Old 04-16-17, 10:14 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I would like to see the District semi final games played in a double header like it used to be instead of two separate nights. You would be able to see all four teams play and coaches could scout all in one night. The way it is now you play one night then in some cases have a long drive the following day to see the team you will play in the final.
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  #8  
Old 04-16-17, 10:27 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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The changes I would most like to see have already been mentioned here:

- Sixteen districts per division with a roughly equally number of teams, in addition to traditional seeding. Use some Harbin-esque formula to seed.
- Large common sites hosting several games on the same day in the early rounds, i.e. how it used to be in the Miami Valley at Wright State and Dayton (will never happen again, but it's nice to dream).
- School fans at mid-court at the state tournament, with coaches, ADs, big wigs, etc. behind the baskets. As somebody who had excellent lower-level mid-court seats this year, it's absolutely ridiculous that the real fans with a rooting interest get jipped with lesser seats for the benefit of people like me.
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  #9  
Old 04-16-17, 12:57 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk some sense View Post
Just to be clear on the math here. You're opening the door for a team with 3 losses in the district and regional tournaments to go to state? 2nd in District and 4th at regional would be 3 losses. And if you lower the number of teams in a district by not letting everyone in (which is another can of worms deciding how to do that), then a team could have a 3-3 tourney record and make it to state. That's with 8-team districts (2-1) and a 4th place Regional placing (1-2).

BTW, 8-team districts in the Southwest would only eliminate one round of games, for all the ranking and seeding headaches caused.
To everything in your first paragraph my only real answer is, so.

To your 2nd paragraph, what ranking and seeding headaches???
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  #10  
Old 04-16-17, 06:59 PM
Salesman Salesman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
..... and please do not stick the home town fans behind the baskets while the big wigs are at mid court.
Agree 100%, I am so sick of politicians and their senile wives sitting at midcourt.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-17, 07:26 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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^^^
Do they even pay for the tickets?
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  #12  
Old 04-16-17, 07:52 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Just curious how many different formats there are for tournament games in Ohio. For us, there is a district of 12-14 teams and two venues, Ottawa and Van Wert. Teams pick their venue on order of their seeding. Two teams come out of each venue and play in the District tournament at Elida. Winner goes to the Regionals at Bowling Green. Anybody different?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post

1) Every team does not make the playoffs

6) Finally, have all four division state championships games for both boys and girls the same weekend together.

Saturday

Boys D4
Girls D3
Boys D2
Girls D1

Sunday

Girls D4
Boys D3
Girls D2
Boys D1
How do you determine who doesn't make the tournament?

For the state finals, typically the first game starts 10:30-11:00am, last game starts at 8:00. You want these games at those hours on a Sunday? Plus, around here many of the early boys and girls tournament games are held at the same venue. Unless you're willing to play two games or more per night for an entire week (M-F) it can't happen.



And yes, I would prefer fans of the teams get better seats but with schools like Lutheran East and Wellington bringing only a few hundred fans, too many good seats on the sides would be empty. Never gonna happen unless attendance gets to only a few thousand per game.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-17, 08:26 PM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
To everything in your first paragraph my only real answer is, so.

To your 2nd paragraph, what ranking and seeding headaches???
OK so if the only games that matter getting to state are district semifinals and regional quarterfinals, then let's just have everybody go state. Also, is an 8 game slate per gender per division per opening day(s) of state tourney really going to work? That's 8 long days of 8 games per day just to set the quarterfinals. Are there enough sites in Columbus to pull this off? Cause if it's not in Columbus then it's not state. Are you sure you've thought this through? Or seen it anywhere else in a similar size state?

Tournament games are suppose to mean something. So I'm just assuming you're being argumentative to want teams with 3 losses to be rewarded with a trip to state.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-17, 10:42 PM
Look Ma No Hands Look Ma No Hands is offline
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Separate public and private...
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  #15  
Old 04-16-17, 11:19 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
Just curious how many different formats there are for tournament games in Ohio. For us, there is a district of 12-14 teams and two venues, Ottawa and Van Wert. Teams pick their venue on order of their seeding. Two teams come out of each venue and play in the District tournament at Elida. Winner goes to the Regionals at Bowling Green. Anybody different?
There's actually a surprising amount of variety as far as format. Central district has home games in the early rounds for the higher seeds, which I am really not fond of. SW district in some divisions has "super sectionals" where you can jump into 3-4 different district brackets. I believe SE district has traditional seeding; no self-determination of who you play. NW district DI now jams like 17-18 schools into the UT district with only one advancing to regionals. In that funky Toledo/Akron/Canton regional every other DI district only has 11-12 schools. From a competitive standpoint, in years such as this one where DI Toledo is loaded it's idiotic. They have 1/3 of the teams in the region and get 1/4 spots at the regional.

I think there are a lot of valid arguments for adopting uniform procedures statewide. 16 districts per division with 12-13 teams and traditional seeding via a Harbin style formula makes sense to me.

Last edited by nwwarrior09; 04-16-17 at 11:29 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-17, 07:39 AM
aztecjim aztecjim is offline
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How can we start a petition? All the team sports should be formatted this way.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-17, 08:28 AM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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The logistics of having boys/girls the same weekend at state also means having the same schedule all season- this is tough from an administrative standpoint. Getting the girls opening rounds of tournament done before starting boys opens up personal/gyms/resources to be ready for the boys.
While I personally love the idea as a parent who has had two kids' (boy and girl) teams go very far in the tournament, I see the work behind the scenes and that would be a daunting task.
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  #18  
Old 04-17-17, 08:29 AM
Zezzo! Zezzo! is offline
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Why mess up system that's been successful forever? Ohio has one of the best high school basketball tournaments in the country, every team gets in regardless of record. Even the poor man has a chance. The best always comes out on top. You can't beat that! The only thing I would like to see in southwest Ohio is after the vote for seeding it should be automatic lower seeds vs. higher seeds instead of lower seeds choosing what's left.
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  #19  
Old 04-17-17, 10:58 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I used to think it was perfect as is because when I was younger I wrongly assumed that everywhere else ran their district tournaments similar to how the SW district does.

Your perceptions change when you see that there are tweaks everywhere, especially if you get into coaching. It's a bit shocking being used to playing and watching games at larger neutral site venues, and then to get into a coaching situation where in your district you have an hour plus trip to play a legit first round road game at a school that's seeded 1-2 spots above you. The tournament is pretty good as is, but it could be better with a little more uniformity across the board at the sectional and district levels.
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  #20  
Old 04-17-17, 03:25 PM
Akronite Akronite is offline
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Fewer divisions. But bring the regional finals games to Columbus and play out those games and the final four all in the same weekend. Double up tix for games so you see back to back without having to leave the arena.
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  #21  
Old 04-17-17, 03:56 PM
3out2in 3out2in is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
There's actually a surprising amount of variety as far as format. Central district has home games in the early rounds for the higher seeds, which I am really not fond of. SW district in some divisions has "super sectionals" where you can jump into 3-4 different district brackets. I believe SE district has traditional seeding; no self-determination of who you play. NW district DI now jams like 17-18 schools into the UT district with only one advancing to regionals. In that funky Toledo/Akron/Canton regional every other DI district only has 11-12 schools. From a competitive standpoint, in years such as this one where DI Toledo is loaded it's idiotic. They have 1/3 of the teams in the region and get 1/4 spots at the regional.

I think there are a lot of valid arguments for adopting uniform procedures statewide. 16 districts per division with 12-13 teams and traditional seeding via a Harbin style formula makes sense to me.
Toledo DI presents some problems. Too many teams for a traditional district, not enough for two districts. Until they have enough for at least 2 districts, they aren't going to be able to demand how things go. As it is, the Toledo teams don't have to travel until the regional final. It's a tough situation, but I think the OHSAA is doing its best to deal with it.
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  #22  
Old 04-17-17, 04:13 PM
3out2in 3out2in is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezzo! View Post
Why mess up system that's been successful forever? Ohio has one of the best high school basketball tournaments in the country, every team gets in regardless of record. Even the poor man has a chance. The best always comes out on top. You can't beat that! The only thing I would like to see in southwest Ohio is after the vote for seeding it should be automatic lower seeds vs. higher seeds instead of lower seeds choosing what's left.
Agree with this. I would like to see the NE board make changes in venues.
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  #23  
Old 04-17-17, 04:39 PM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3out2in View Post
Toledo DI presents some problems. Too many teams for a traditional district, not enough for two districts. Until they have enough for at least 2 districts, they aren't going to be able to demand how things go. As it is, the Toledo teams don't have to travel until the regional final. It's a tough situation, but I think the OHSAA is doing its best to deal with it.
For the time being that is only every other year.

:>---

Made it back to Ohio via MATS!
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  #24  
Old 04-17-17, 06:18 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talk some sense View Post
OK so if the only games that matter getting to state are district semifinals and regional quarterfinals, then let's just have everybody go state. Also, is an 8 game slate per gender per division per opening day(s) of state tourney really going to work? That's 8 long days of 8 games per day just to set the quarterfinals. Are there enough sites in Columbus to pull this off? Cause if it's not in Columbus then it's not state. Are you sure you've thought this through? Or seen it anywhere else in a similar size state?

Tournament games are suppose to mean something. So I'm just assuming you're being argumentative to want teams with 3 losses to be rewarded with a trip to state.
That schedule I set was for the state championship games only. Four games per day on Saturday and Sunday. The rest of the tournament games are NOT at Ohio State. They would be at neutral sites for each region. The 1 seeds are the owners of the region. So the top Columbus seed would play in Columbus. The other 3 seeds from the other 3 regions would travel to that location. The same setup goes for each regions 1 seed. These 2 rounds (3 games) could be the prior weekend of the championship, on a Friday and Saturday.

At the end of the day I'm not a fan of making the entire postseason tournament shorter. I am a fan of better quality games though, and also of having the truly two best teams in the state playing in the final game. That's why my proposal removes the lower teams (the powers that be could decide where the cutoff is made) and also includes multiple teams moving forward from districts, to regionals and finally to state.

I'm also for a harbins type ranking system.
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  #25  
Old 04-17-17, 06:21 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
The logistics of having boys/girls the same weekend at state also means having the same schedule all season- this is tough from an administrative standpoint. Getting the girls opening rounds of tournament done before starting boys opens up personal/gyms/resources to be ready for the boys.
While I personally love the idea as a parent who has had two kids' (boy and girl) teams go very far in the tournament, I see the work behind the scenes and that would be a daunting task.
Agreed, but it is a doable task though. And I think it can reap benefits for the participation, both players and fans, of the entire sport.
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  #26  
Old 04-17-17, 06:31 PM
Curious One Curious One is offline
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What's wrong with the current set up? Seems to work for the kids involved. I like the 2 game "tourneys" that are the district, regional, and state. It allows for celebration at every level which is all most schools can hope to achieve. For every VASJ of SVSM, there is a Northwestern or Wauseon!
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  #27  
Old 04-17-17, 08:03 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Leave it alone.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-17, 01:29 AM
ringer2 ringer2 is offline
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Leave it alone.
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  #29  
Old 04-18-17, 07:36 AM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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Sorry if this hits twice.

So what you're proposing is not an expanded state tournament but second set of regional games, with teams reseeded and all of the games mattering. Got it.
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  #30  
Old 04-18-17, 08:39 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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There's nothing really I don't like about them now. On a stretch, I'd say move the finals to St. John's where there's more of that local feeling instead of that sterile environment where all the seats are a county away.
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