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  #1  
Old 04-09-17, 02:48 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Rich Americans live up to 15 years longer than poor peers, studies find

Not a real shock here and I don't think the country you live in really matters...

Quote:
You can’t buy time – except, it seems, in America.

Increasing inequality means wealthy Americans can now expect to live up to 15 years longer than their poor counterparts, reports in the British medical journal the Lancet have found.

Researchers said these disparities appear to be worsened by the American health system itself, which relies on for-profit insurance companies, and is the most expensive in the world.

Their conclusion? Treat healthcare as a human right.

“Healthcare is not a commodity,” wrote US Senator Bernie Sanders in an opinion article introducing the issue of the journal, which is devoted to inequality in American healthcare. “The goal of a healthcare system should be to keep people well, not to make stockholders rich. The USA has the most expensive, bureaucratic, wasteful, and ineffective healthcare system in the world.”
Read more:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ality-lifespan
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  #2  
Old 04-09-17, 02:57 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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I want to read the research. This smells heavily of bias.

Last edited by Crusaders; 04-09-17 at 04:29 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-09-17, 06:23 PM
gneiss rocks gneiss rocks is offline
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Very little to do with healthcare and more to do with lifestyle, brain, upbringing and other factors.

Something as simple person who is able to delay gratification is much more likely to save money and eventually become wealthy...eat better etc.
A person who does not spend money on drugs or alcohol not only saves all that money but also is much more likely to keep a good job and stay focused to improve and move up the ladder. Not to mention die early from the poisoning effect on your body.
A person who is self motivated to start their own business and work hard is also more likely to motivate themselves to stay in shape.
If you are raised to work hard and save money you probably do not have time to join a street gang.
Also all of the above are more likely to take care of themselves and go see a doctor when something is not right.
Add in education and those who are not driven to educate themselves not only make less money but would probably rather sit on the couch than workout.
So often the same thing that makes you poor will cause you to die young.
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  #4  
Old 04-09-17, 06:28 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I suspect that diet and attitude have far more to do with that 15 years than the choice of insurer or $pending on health care.
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  #5  
Old 04-09-17, 07:26 PM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I suspect that diet and attitude have far more to do with that 15 years than the choice of insurer or $pending on health care.
And careless young driving, drugs, alcohol, violence, careless sex practices...
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  #6  
Old 04-09-17, 07:34 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is online now
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But does poverty influence/drive crime
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  #7  
Old 04-09-17, 07:39 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Violence I'm sure is a big factor in poor life span.
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  #8  
Old 04-09-17, 07:40 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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But does poverty influence/drive crime
Stupid can make yo' azz po', I tell you dat !
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  #9  
Old 04-09-17, 08:24 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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But does poverty influence/drive crime
Good question, surprised this topic hasn't been covered before.
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  #10  
Old 04-09-17, 08:51 PM
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From what I've read/heard, poverty drives crime in places where the impoverished live in relative close proximity to those of higher means. One could say envy drives crime, at least in part.
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  #11  
Old 04-10-17, 01:18 AM
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This issue reminds me of studies into the benefits of vegetarians as they live longer according to the Seventh Day Adventist.

In reality, it is a healthier life style all around by a group of disciplined people practicing their faith that causes them to consume few items that negatively impact their health, such as tobacco, alcohol and excessive caloric intake.

It is the discipline applied that more significantly results in additional longevity than the ability to purchase health care IMO.

But if this study is true, why not solve the problem by making everyone have an equal opportunity to be rich? Oh, guess we already have that option in America, but so few choose to deny themselves of things leaving them poor.
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  #12  
Old 04-10-17, 02:07 AM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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No surprise. I find it interesting advances in health hasn't increased age, just the average.
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  #13  
Old 04-10-17, 05:48 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Raider6309 View Post
No surprise. I find it interesting advances in health hasn't increased age, just the average.
Yup. More people doing right in some demographics.
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  #14  
Old 04-10-17, 07:42 AM
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Good to see that the echo chamber has covered the gamut of issues/positions on this topic from A to B.
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  #15  
Old 04-10-17, 07:45 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Bernie 2020 !
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  #16  
Old 04-10-17, 08:06 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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While the Manchester Guardian is notoriously liberal media outlet, Lancet is Great Britain's premier medical journal. So, the media outlet is liberal. The source is highly reputable.

The Greatest Commandment..."love God; love your neighbor as your love yourself". The fact that the wealthy in America are outliving the poor by 15 years, you would think, would prompt at least some soul searching. IF this life expectancy gap is widening, I attribute it to three things...

- The growing economic inequality gap;
- Unequal access to medical CARE;
- Bad lifestyle choices by the poor;

I think the inequality gap is a big deal and very tough to solve. It also contributes to despair/loss of hope. I drove to high school three close friends every day in the 70's. My three buddies...all of their dad's were factory workers; dad's were high school grads; their mom's stayed out home. Good middle class existence; the kids all went to college. Big dumb guy today likely can't find that pathway to success.

If growing income inequality is with us for the long term (and I think it is), one way to address it is to provide more equal access to medical CARE with government help.
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  #17  
Old 04-10-17, 08:21 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
Good to see that the echo chamber has covered the gamut of issues/positions on this topic from A to B.
So anything that's perceived as right by a majority is worthy of being mockingly called an "echo chamber"?

Last edited by Possessed; 04-10-17 at 08:52 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-10-17, 10:11 AM
D4fan D4fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
While the Manchester Guardian is notoriously liberal media outlet, Lancet is Great Britain's premier medical journal. So, the media outlet is liberal. The source is highly reputable.

The Greatest Commandment..."love God; love your neighbor as your love yourself". The fact that the wealthy in America are outliving the poor by 15 years, you would think, would prompt at least some soul searching. IF this life expectancy gap is widening, I attribute it to three things...

- The growing economic inequality gap;
- Unequal access to medical CARE;
- Bad lifestyle choices by the poor;

I think the inequality gap is a big deal and very tough to solve. It also contributes to despair/loss of hope. I drove to high school three close friends every day in the 70's. My three buddies...all of their dad's were factory workers; dad's were high school grads; their mom's stayed out home. Good middle class existence; the kids all went to college. Big dumb guy today likely can't find that pathway to success.

If growing income inequality is with us for the long term (and I think it is), one way to address it is to provide more equal access to medical CARE with government help.

My insurance agent tells me the healthiest people in their pool of insured are the ones who have HSA accounts with very high deductibles. These are people generally paying their own way and benefitting from hanging on to as many of their own dollars as possible. Knowing they have a large deductible they are likely to avoid behaviors that place their health at risk.
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  #19  
Old 04-10-17, 10:18 AM
Possessed Possessed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
My insurance agent tells me the healthiest people in their pool of insured are the ones who have HSA accounts with very high deductibles. These are people generally paying their own way and benefitting from hanging on to as many of their own dollars as possible. Knowing they have a large deductible they are likely to avoid behaviors that place their health at risk.
I wonder if since they're paying their own way and not using their insurance if it only APPEARS theyre the most healthy because they aren't being counted in the insurance polls somehow?
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  #20  
Old 04-10-17, 10:24 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4fan View Post
Knowing they have a large deductible they are likely to avoid behaviors that place their health at risk.
In the alternative...

They are people who live their lives a certain way and have found this approach to best address their situation, given how they live. My guess is that they ARE NOT modifying their behavior in order to match up with their health plan. The behavior is what it is.
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  #21  
Old 04-10-17, 10:31 AM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Violence I'm sure is a big factor in poor life span.
I'm sure that the mundane stuff has a bigger impact on life expectancy (nutrition, weight, blood pressure), but a study in 2013 said that AA male life expectancy was a year lower due to homicide in the US.
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  #22  
Old 04-10-17, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
I'm sure that the mundane stuff has a bigger impact on life expectancy (nutrition, weight, blood pressure), but a study in 2013 said that AA male life expectancy was a year lower due to homicide in the US.
What a tragedy.
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  #23  
Old 04-10-17, 11:20 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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I'm not sure why anyone would spend time doing a study on this. Of course this is true. It's always been that way. There should only be a very basic level of healthcare afforded to all. Of course those who have worked hard and earned enough money to buy good insurance would have better healthcare options.
Folks we need to ENCOURAGE people to work hard to earn better stuff. We have a generation who has the feeling that the government is going to take care of them. That's wrong and not sustainable.
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  #24  
Old 04-10-17, 11:56 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I'm not sure why anyone would spend time doing a study on this. Of course this is true. It's always been that way. There should only be a very basic level of healthcare afforded to all. Of course those who have worked hard and earned enough money to buy good insurance would have better healthcare options.
Folks we need to ENCOURAGE people to work hard to earn better stuff. We have a generation who has the feeling that the government is going to take care of them. That's wrong and not sustainable.
I agree with this^. I'm all about a basic level of care for all.

Unfortunately, pre-ACA, the poor were grabbing high dollar care through ERs and putting us in a deeper hole via deficit spending. Now, that expense is spread around by raising all of the working people's insurance rates and giving the insurers a even better "skim" in the process.

The poor need to be seeing a lot of nurse practitioners in bare-bones settings and be hospitalized in wards, not private rooms. Unfortunately, those that pander for their votes won't like the terms of their hand-out, and will wail like Seinfeld's muffin-stump lady over the quality of our largess.
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  #25  
Old 04-10-17, 01:30 PM
irish_buffalo irish_buffalo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I agree with this^. I'm all about a basic level of care for all.

Unfortunately, pre-ACA, the poor were grabbing high dollar care through ERs and putting us in a deeper hole via deficit spending. Now, that expense is spread around by raising all of the working people's insurance rates and giving the insurers a even better "skim" in the process.

The poor need to be seeing a lot of nurse practitioners in bare-bones settings and be hospitalized in wards, not private rooms. Unfortunately, those that pander for their votes won't like the terms of their hand-out, and will wail like Seinfeld's muffin-stump lady over the quality of our largess.
^ This. All of it. Even the Seinfeld muffin-stump analogy.

I make decent money. For those of you that can believe it I am actually married and my wife makes good money as well.

Every time I head to the local butcher shop to pick up some good grillin', as my cheap azz is figuring what I can afford, I usually get bumped into by the slow moving 300lb. plus mom who stuffs her cart to the brim and pays with WIC. Lets start right there when it comes to health care. Our poor should not be overweight let alone grossly overweight.
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  #26  
Old 04-10-17, 01:57 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
While the Manchester Guardian is notoriously liberal media outlet, Lancet is Great Britain's premier medical journal. So, the media outlet is liberal. The source is highly reputable.

The Greatest Commandment..."love God; love your neighbor as your love yourself". The fact that the wealthy in America are outliving the poor by 15 years, you would think, would prompt at least some soul searching. IF this life expectancy gap is widening, I attribute it to three things...

- The growing economic inequality gap;
- Unequal access to medical CARE;
- Bad lifestyle choices by the poor;

I think the inequality gap is a big deal and very tough to solve. It also contributes to despair/loss of hope. I drove to high school three close friends every day in the 70's. My three buddies...all of their dad's were factory workers; dad's were high school grads; their mom's stayed out home. Good middle class existence; the kids all went to college. Big dumb guy today likely can't find that pathway to success.

If growing income inequality is with us for the long term (and I think it is), one way to address it is to provide more equal access to medical CARE with government help.
Poor lifestyle choices lead to a failure to obtain gainful employment which in turn leads to subpar access to medical care.

Income inequality is not that big of a deal. What really matters is how much the people at the bottom have, and thr fact is the poor in America are richer than the majority of the people on the planet. So, the problem is not really our medical system but the millions of people who fail to take responsibility for themselves. Coddling those people by elling them it's other people's fault and that mother, err the government, is going to make it all better does nothing to help the issue.
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  #27  
Old 04-10-17, 02:07 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I can't believe I just posted this. The end is near.
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  #28  
Old 04-10-17, 03:20 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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I often stop at a grocery store in Akron where a decent % of the people pay with EBT cards.

It's amazing to me how much healthier my items are than this demographic.
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  #29  
Old 04-10-17, 03:44 PM
Arrogate Arrogate is online now
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I eat out for lunch almost every day and I don't really eat healthy. I just don't over eat. I am in good health and shape also I work in manual labor. It isn't that hard to maintain your weight. It's the over eating that kills it. Limiting your soda intake would she'd tons of weight off america
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  #30  
Old 04-10-17, 03:46 PM
queencitybuckeye queencitybuckeye is offline
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The cause and effect of wealth and health is highly suspect. Far more likely that better life decisions are a causal element of both.
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