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  #31  
Old 04-10-17, 05:02 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
I hope FR can compete going fwd or did they just run into a solid class or two. I know, all juggernauts start somewhere and it remains to be seen if they can continue.

It will be entirely difficult with MSML, CW and SH in their same region.

Did they bumped because of students OE in?

CW looks to take another stop back but either way....MSML or CW streak of finals games will end this year




That VV matchup now becomes paramount for FR. I didn't like that game when it was scheduled, and dislike it even more now.

but if they can win that one.............
I believe their program has turned the corner and they will be competitive more years than not.

I agree that it will not be an easy road to get to the playoffs and even moire difficult when they get there.

A Valley View win is paramount.

FR had back to back classes with 40:20 ratio of boys to girls.... Hence the bump to DVI.
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  #32  
Old 04-10-17, 07:30 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I believe their program has turned the corner and they will be competitive more years than not.

I agree that it will not be an easy road to get to the playoffs and even moire difficult when they get there.

A Valley View win is paramount.

FR had back to back classes with 40:20 ratio of boys to girls.... Hence the bump to DVI.
2:1 guys to girls? Dang. Makes it tough for dates to prom I guess.
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  #33  
Old 04-10-17, 07:48 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
2:1 guys to girls? Dang. Makes it tough for dates to prom I guess.
Not yet but it will. Those are the current Freshman class and the incoming freshman class. FR will be DVI for a few years and a lot of guys going Stag to Prom.
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  #34  
Old 04-11-17, 12:26 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
I believe their program has turned the corner and they will be competitive more years than not.

I agree that it will not be an easy road to get to the playoffs and even moire difficult when they get there.

A Valley View win is paramount.

FR had back to back classes with 40:20 ratio of boys to girls.... Hence the bump to DVI.
I hope so but you just never know. Success begets success and let's hope they can keep it rolling. Just stinks for all the local teams getting lumped in the same division.

Maybe it will save the "embarrassment" of more losses in the championship games as the league, as we all know, is overall down from its peak in 2014/15...
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  #35  
Old 04-11-17, 07:12 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
I hope so but you just never know. Success begets success and let's hope they can keep it rolling. Just stinks for all the local teams getting lumped in the same division.

Maybe it will save the "embarrassment" of more losses in the championship games as the league, as we all know, is overall down from its peak in 2014/15...
embarrassment............really?
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  #36  
Old 04-11-17, 07:14 AM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh, how about the AFC Central. Bengals are imploding,Steelers and big Ben are on the downside of the hill, Cleveland is a train wreck, and who knows about the Ravens.Coldwater vs Cleveland, now that is a matchup made in heaven.Uh nah maybe 3 divisions. Uh nah make it 5 divisions Coldwater vs St Eds, or Moeller? UH or Coldwater could play the 90 freshmen on the StX team. Uh if only they would give us a chance.
come in....but next time bring something....
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  #37  
Old 04-11-17, 08:33 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Why would anyone think that this would move any of them up?

CBP has nothing to do with what happens or happened on the field.
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  #38  
Old 04-11-17, 12:50 PM
ctowner ctowner is offline
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Some thoughts from the MAC/Coldwater perspective...

- As Coach Otten said in the DDN article cited earlier, we would rather be in DV. Loved spending those weekends in Canton or Columbus with MAC schools playing for a Championship or two.... or three!

- Coldwater moved down in 2017 for two reasons. First, over the past two years enrollment declined by 17 students. Second, once the CB numbers were determined and the Divisions were rebalanced, Coldwater landed in D6. Their CB factor of 3 was not significant.

- Coldwater is now the third largest team in D6. Gain a few more boys through enrollment and they will be back in D5.

- Would be nice if the OHSAA would allow a school to choose to move up a division (never down).

- This new CB policy has not really changed anything. Privates still have a huge advantage and publics will only be able to compete if they recruit too. I hope we never do that. I would rather see our kids compete with the kids they grew up with rather than have a stud or two come to town and 'win us a championship'. Kind of tarnishes the accomplishment.

- Coldwater is not scared to play the privates either. Bring 'em on! Other than u of Ursuline we have fared pretty well.

- The one good thing about CB is that the recruiters can no longer deny what they are doing. It is now documented for all to see in the hallowed halls of the OHSAA.

- IMO, If you want to disincentives recruiting, the penalty has to be stronger. Moving up a division is not strong enough. So maybe we 'legalize' recruiting. But if you do put a recruit on your roster, well then welcome to Division 1! You want to be like the big boys, well then you can play with them too!

With that I will press the POST button and let the debate continue.....
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  #39  
Old 04-11-17, 01:01 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
come in....but next time bring something....
Uh , dang had something but forgot what it is.Meow
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  #40  
Old 04-11-17, 01:07 PM
speedster13 speedster13 is offline
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mactosis
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  #41  
Old 04-11-17, 01:44 PM
Basement Bias Basement Bias is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
How did they rig the system? The enrollment numbers + CB put them all in Div VI and geography puts them in the same region. If any of them disagree they can file a complaint but the numbers are the numbers.
Not talking about the numbers. Coldwater and ML should have been moved up. They've historically been dominant in their respective divisions. If these two are as strong as a few years ago, then the winner will be a state finalist. Both could probably beat a champion or definitely compete with that champion in a higher division than they previously were in. Like I said, it's trying to bring in new blood for State instead of 3 MAC finalists. MAC beating on the MAC in the postseason is the more convenient way than having someone else beat them (which can be done).
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  #42  
Old 04-11-17, 01:46 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctowner View Post
- Would be nice if the OHSAA would allow a school to choose to move up a division (never down).

With that I will press the POST button and let the debate continue.....
Pennsylvania allows any school to play up on a sport by sport basis. But they also allow co-ops and homeschool kids can play for the public district they live in.

Wyoming actually will let teams go up or down depending on a lot of factors including league history, future projections, geography and to even out numbers. I'd think Ohio should allow schools to petition to move down. A school with ten wins in 5 seasons is probably not playing similar competition to themselves. It serves nobody to have them be the whipping boy.

A European soccer like system where good teams move up and bad teams move down would go a long way to letting the competition sort itself out without much outside influence.
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  #43  
Old 04-11-17, 02:05 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Basement Bias View Post
Not talking about the numbers. Coldwater and ML should have been moved up. They've historically been dominant in their respective divisions. If these two are as strong as a few years ago, then the winner will be a state finalist. Both could probably beat a champion or definitely compete with that champion in a higher division than they previously were in. Like I said, it's trying to bring in new blood for State instead of 3 MAC finalists. MAC beating on the MAC in the postseason is the more convenient way than having someone else beat them (which can be done).
let's not forget Anna and Versailles...they are in Div 5......
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  #44  
Old 04-11-17, 02:06 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Uh , dang had something but forgot what it is.Meow
dope does that to you sometimes......
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  #45  
Old 04-11-17, 02:07 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by ctowner View Post
Some thoughts from the MAC/Coldwater perspective...

- As Coach Otten said in the DDN article cited earlier, we would rather be in DV. Loved spending those weekends in Canton or Columbus with MAC schools playing for a Championship or two.... or three!

- Coldwater moved down in 2017 for two reasons. First, over the past two years enrollment declined by 17 students. Second, once the CB numbers were determined and the Divisions were rebalanced, Coldwater landed in D6. Their CB factor of 3 was not significant.

- Coldwater is now the third largest team in D6. Gain a few more boys through enrollment and they will be back in D5.

- Would be nice if the OHSAA would allow a school to choose to move up a division (never down).

- This new CB policy has not really changed anything. Privates still have a huge advantage and publics will only be able to compete if they recruit too. I hope we never do that. I would rather see our kids compete with the kids they grew up with rather than have a stud or two come to town and 'win us a championship'. Kind of tarnishes the accomplishment.

- Coldwater is not scared to play the privates either. Bring 'em on! Other than u of Ursuline we have fared pretty well.

- The one good thing about CB is that the recruiters can no longer deny what they are doing. It is now documented for all to see in the hallowed halls of the OHSAA.

- IMO, If you want to disincentives recruiting, the penalty has to be stronger. Moving up a division is not strong enough. So maybe we 'legalize' recruiting. But if you do put a recruit on your roster, well then welcome to Division 1! You want to be like the big boys, well then you can play with them too!

With that I will press the POST button and let the debate continue.....


maybe Coldwater is running out of 19 year olds......
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  #46  
Old 04-11-17, 02:11 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Not yet but it will. Those are the current Freshman class and the incoming freshman class. FR will be DVI for a few years and a lot of guys going Stag to Prom.
maybe Recovery boys can go to Botkins or Marion Local or Miss Valley and look for a date.....they seem to have no problem with boys from those districts coming into the Forts schools...
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  #47  
Old 04-11-17, 02:15 PM
serpico serpico is offline
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Originally Posted by ctowner View Post
Privates still have a huge advantage and publics will only be able to compete if they recruit too.
And yet, Coldwater et. al. continue to compete and usually win. I'm not following your logic here.
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  #48  
Old 04-11-17, 02:22 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctowner View Post
Some thoughts from the MAC/Coldwater perspective...

- As Coach Otten said in the DDN article cited earlier, we would rather be in DV. Loved spending those weekends in Canton or Columbus with MAC schools playing for a Championship or two.... or three!

- Coldwater moved down in 2017 for two reasons. First, over the past two years enrollment declined by 17 students. Second, once the CB numbers were determined and the Divisions were rebalanced, Coldwater landed in D6. Their CB factor of 3 was not significant.

- Coldwater is now the third largest team in D6. Gain a few more boys through enrollment and they will be back in D5.

- Would be nice if the OHSAA would allow a school to choose to move up a division (never down).

- This new CB policy has not really changed anything. Privates still have a huge advantage and publics will only be able to compete if they recruit too. I hope we never do that. I would rather see our kids compete with the kids they grew up with rather than have a stud or two come to town and 'win us a championship'. Kind of tarnishes the accomplishment.

- Coldwater is not scared to play the privates either. Bring 'em on! Other than u of Ursuline we have fared pretty well.

- The one good thing about CB is that the recruiters can no longer deny what they are doing. It is now documented for all to see in the hallowed halls of the OHSAA.

- IMO, If you want to disincentives recruiting, the penalty has to be stronger. Moving up a division is not strong enough. So maybe we 'legalize' recruiting. But if you do put a recruit on your roster, well then welcome to Division 1! You want to be like the big boys, well then you can play with them too!


With that I will press the POST button and let the debate continue.....
You were making sense up til this point

Whoops
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  #49  
Old 04-11-17, 11:52 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by ctowner View Post
Some thoughts from the MAC/Coldwater perspective...

- As Coach Otten said in the DDN article cited earlier, we would rather be in DV. Loved spending those weekends in Canton or Columbus with MAC schools playing for a Championship or two.... or three!

- Coldwater moved down in 2017 for two reasons. First, over the past two years enrollment declined by 17 students. Second, once the CB numbers were determined and the Divisions were rebalanced, Coldwater landed in D6. Their CB factor of 3 was not significant.

- Coldwater is now the third largest team in D6. Gain a few more boys through enrollment and they will be back in D5.

- Would be nice if the OHSAA would allow a school to choose to move up a division (never down).

- This new CB policy has not really changed anything. Privates still have a huge advantage and publics will only be able to compete if they recruit too. I hope we never do that. I would rather see our kids compete with the kids they grew up with rather than have a stud or two come to town and 'win us a championship'. Kind of tarnishes the accomplishment.

- Coldwater is not scared to play the privates either. Bring 'em on! Other than u of Ursuline we have fared pretty well.

- The one good thing about CB is that the recruiters can no longer deny what they are doing. It is now documented for all to see in the hallowed halls of the OHSAA.

- IMO, If you want to disincentives recruiting, the penalty has to be stronger. Moving up a division is not strong enough. So maybe we 'legalize' recruiting. But if you do put a recruit on your roster, well then welcome to Division 1! You want to be like the big boys, well then you can play with them too!

With that I will press the POST button and let the debate continue.....
DVI has MSML which will be stout for years to come. CW is on their downswing. 14/15 would have put a running clock on 16, and 17 squad will take another step back. Kirtland and Mechanicsburg were tough as well. It will remain to be seen in Mech is still tough with Romero graduating and I presume Kirt will again be very tough.

With that said, I think D5 has the ability to have some very good private schools step up and take it all. I haven't looked too far into it, but is CHCA still in 5? If their WRs could catch they would have beaten CW and also CCC. CCC will still get their players from the Canton area.

Any other time I would be OK with moving down but the Flyers..........yeah. The last two years have been epic and if CW makes the playoffs and faces the Flyers that game will be amazing. I suggest an illegal 50/50 for that one...who is gonna stop it?

I legit don't see CW has a real contender in 17. The Flyers? Yes.

The team this really hoses is.....Ft Recovery. I will go out on a limb right now and say if they don't beat VV then they will miss the playoffs. Unfortunate, but possible.

Until Anna/Versailles make some strides I don't see them making any noise in DV. Anna surprises me. I thought by now they would have been a yearly contender at the top.
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  #50  
Old 04-12-17, 06:30 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
maybe Recovery boys can go to Botkins or Marion Local or Miss Valley and look for a date.....they seem to have no problem with boys from those districts coming into the Forts schools...
Two words bigkat.... Rosie Westerbeck
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  #51  
Old 04-12-17, 06:39 AM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
DVI has MSML which will be stout for years to come. CW is on their downswing. 14/15 would have put a running clock on 16, and 17 squad will take another step back. Kirtland and Mechanicsburg were tough as well. It will remain to be seen in Mech is still tough with Romero graduating and I presume Kirt will again be very tough.

With that said, I think D5 has the ability to have some very good private schools step up and take it all. I haven't looked too far into it, but is CHCA still in 5? If their WRs could catch they would have beaten CW and also CCC. CCC will still get their players from the Canton area.

Any other time I would be OK with moving down but the Flyers..........yeah. The last two years have been epic and if CW makes the playoffs and faces the Flyers that game will be amazing. I suggest an illegal 50/50 for that one...who is gonna stop it?

I legit don't see CW has a real contender in 17. The Flyers? Yes.

The team this really hoses is.....Ft Recovery. I will go out on a limb right now and say if they don't beat VV then they will miss the playoffs. Unfortunate, but possible.

Until Anna/Versailles make some strides I don't see them making any noise in DV. Anna surprises me. I thought by now they would have been a yearly contender at the top.
I think FR has to go 7-3 to make the playoffs with wins over OOC, Versailles and SH a must. A loss to either Minster or DSJ would hurt but probably still get them into the playoffs as a 7 or 8 seed. 8-2 could get them a home game. Of course a win against either ML or CW would go a long way as well.... Ala Minster 2016.
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  #52  
Old 04-12-17, 08:26 AM
ctowner ctowner is offline
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Originally Posted by serpico View Post
And yet, Coldwater et. al. continue to compete and usually win. I'm not following your logic here.
Just stating my opinion about this whole CB 'solution'. It accomplished nothing, nor will it.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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  #53  
Old 04-12-17, 08:33 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by ctowner View Post
just stating my opinion about this whole cb 'solution'. It accomplished nothing, nor will it.

Sent from my xt1254 using tapatalk
we've all known this for a while now
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  #54  
Old 04-12-17, 09:41 AM
stripedwarrior stripedwarrior is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
DVI has MSML which will be stout for years to come. CW is on their downswing. 14/15 would have put a running clock on 16, and 17 squad will take another step back. Kirtland and Mechanicsburg were tough as well. It will remain to be seen in Mech is still tough with Romero graduating and I presume Kirt will again be very tough.

With that said, I think D5 has the ability to have some very good private schools step up and take it all. I haven't looked too far into it, but is CHCA still in 5? If their WRs could catch they would have beaten CW and also CCC. CCC will still get their players from the Canton area.

Any other time I would be OK with moving down but the Flyers..........yeah. The last two years have been epic and if CW makes the playoffs and faces the Flyers that game will be amazing. I suggest an illegal 50/50 for that one...who is gonna stop it?

I legit don't see CW has a real contender in 17. The Flyers? Yes.

The team this really hoses is.....Ft Recovery. I will go out on a limb right now and say if they don't beat VV then they will miss the playoffs. Unfortunate, but possible.

Until Anna/Versailles make some strides I don't see them making any noise in DV. Anna surprises me. I thought by now they would have been a yearly contender at the top.
50/50 are allowed in playoffs now. It is up to the host school. Winner gets 50, school gets 25, and state gets 25.
Not as many buy tickets as it does not support your school, or the school you are playing, with the exception of week 11.
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  #55  
Old 04-12-17, 10:46 AM
Rangerfan Rangerfan is offline
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Every change in the divisions/regions makes things better for some MAC teams and worse for others (Anna and Versailles are happy to get Coldwater out of their region, and Minster is certainly glad to avoid Marion Local and Fort Recovery).

Two years from now, some different MAC teams are going to be happy while others are less so.
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  #56  
Old 04-12-17, 05:18 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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dope does that to you sometimes......
Uh, dope,aint heard that one in 20 years. Uh I'm high on life there Mr Clampet. Black gold, Texas tea.
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  #57  
Old 04-12-17, 07:16 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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D-6 will be loaded with Kirtland, Coldwater, Marion Local and others. Coldwater's enrollment no.s this season would have solidly landed them into D-5 last season. Interesting that the cut-off no.s changed that much from last year.
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  #58  
Old 04-12-17, 08:31 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Two words bigkat.... Rosie Westerbeck
the Westerbecks actually have lived in Minster for over 3 years...and they moved into a house that was her grandparents old house that they have owned for years. Her Mom graduated from Minster...now tell me the story how some kids have ended up in the FORT......and where is there current home located at.........you can use more then two words....
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  #59  
Old 04-12-17, 08:38 PM
bigkat bigkat is offline
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Uh, dope,aint heard that one in 20 years. Uh I'm high on life there Mr Clampet. Black gold, Texas tea.
thanks Jethro......that is about the last time I saw a baggy of mary jane....
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  #60  
Old 04-12-17, 09:26 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by bigkat View Post
the Westerbecks actually have lived in Minster for over 3 years...and they moved into a house that was her grandparents old house that they have owned for years. Her Mom graduated from Minster...now tell me the story how some kids have ended up in the FORT......and where is there current home located at.........you can use more then two words....
Rosie Westerbeck was a freshman phenom on a terrible New Bremen team. She open enrolled as a sophomore to the defending league Champs. But I'm sure she moved to Minster for reasons other than athletics.

The Tribe''s CB adjustment was 2. Which kids are you referring to?
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