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  #91  
Old 04-02-17, 09:19 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Hard to bring in 150 each year when you graduate just over 115 a year and stay in the same division for sports.
"People" think they screen kids for many reasons but sports is the one that upsets high school sports fans.
Do any kids get sponsored? Or do you know?
They don't screen any kids for sports - where do you even come up with this stuff. When my son enrolled in the school they never even mentioned sports to him. That is the problem with the public school supporters. You guys think schools stay small so they can play in a lower division. Ridiculous. The more students they have the easier it is to pay the bills. You have several schools competing for the same students who are smart enough and that can afford a private education. That is not that easy in the area in which VASJ is located.

The reason why only 115-130 kids graduate a year is attrition. Families move, some have financial issues, some discipline issues, etc - there is no private school where every kid stays in the school four years. To answer your question NO kids are not sponsored. You have such a clouded misconception on what goes on at VASJ. You guys think everything that goes on with the school is directed at making the boys basketball great and to play in a lower division. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that there has been a lot of great local talent in the last 6 years or so that want to be part of the Viking program and to be coached by one of the best staffs in Ohio.
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  #92  
Old 04-03-17, 07:19 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
They don't screen any kids for sports - where do you even come up with this stuff. When my son enrolled in the school they never even mentioned sports to him. That is the problem with the public school supporters. You guys think schools stay small so they can play in a lower division. Ridiculous. The more students they have the easier it is to pay the bills. You have several schools competing for the same students who are smart enough and that can afford a private education. That is not that easy in the area in which VASJ is located.

The reason why only 115-130 kids graduate a year is attrition. Families move, some have financial issues, some discipline issues, etc - there is no private school where every kid stays in the school four years. To answer your question NO kids are not sponsored. You have such a clouded misconception on what goes on at VASJ. You guys think everything that goes on with the school is directed at making the boys basketball great and to play in a lower division. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that there has been a lot of great local talent in the last 6 years or so that want to be part of the Viking program and to be coached by one of the best staffs in Ohio.
It is on their application.
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  #93  
Old 04-03-17, 09:12 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Enlighten us as to what the applications says.
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  #94  
Old 04-03-17, 10:36 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Enlighten us as to what the applications says.
Google it yourself. There is a section of the application for extracurricular activities.
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  #95  
Old 04-03-17, 11:07 PM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
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Then your brother and the superintendent should both be turned in to the state, lose their positions and charged.
With what??
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  #96  
Old 04-04-17, 04:49 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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That can be choir, sports, cheerleading, dance, peer ministry, etc. I really think your grabbing at straws. Guess what if a student was to write down basketball for instance but had bad grades and any behavior or discipline issues in grade school - they are not getting in. Remember this is the school that last season after losing 8 stud seniors expelled one of the best bigs in Ohio (who had a D1 scholarship) due to grades. Yes in a rebuilding year with so many unknowns they got rid of possibly their most talented returning player. With that player they possibly win state last year. The kids who play sports at VASJ usually have to play multiple sports or there are programs that would be unable to field a team. The athletes at Joe's only make up a small portion of the actual school population.

If it was all about basketball Higgins, McGarry or Lawler would not be playing football. If Higgins or McGarry get hurt playing football Joe's does not have a chance to reach Columbus.
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  #97  
Old 04-04-17, 06:14 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by SeeYaSometime View Post
With what??
According to the story that was told they were defrauding the state to obtain additional funds.
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  #98  
Old 04-04-17, 06:24 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
That can be choir, sports, cheerleading, dance, peer ministry, etc. I really think your grabbing at straws. Guess what if a student was to write down basketball for instance but had bad grades and any behavior or discipline issues in grade school - they are not getting in. Remember this is the school that last season after losing 8 stud seniors expelled one of the best bigs in Ohio (who had a D1 scholarship) due to grades. Yes in a rebuilding year with so many unknowns they got rid of possibly their most talented returning player. With that player they possibly win state last year. The kids who play sports at VASJ usually have to play multiple sports or there are programs that would be unable to field a team. The athletes at Joe's only make up a small portion of the actual school population.

If it was all about basketball Higgins, McGarry or Lawler would not be playing football. If Higgins or McGarry get hurt playing football Joe's does not have a chance to reach Columbus.
It's on there for a reason. I'm not grabbing for any straw. Don't misunderstand, I am fine with private education and understand that many are currently better than some public schools. It's sometimes the people that run them can lose their way and when placed in situations can forget the focus and priority of the education in order to advertise their employer.
Here is a thought for you. If private education was like homeschooling to where you attended class but all extracurricular events took place in the district you lived in. We can only wonder how the enrollment numbers would change.
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  #99  
Old 04-04-17, 08:21 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Just checked a local district that has open enrollment. They also ask about extra curricular activities. Actually they specifically ask about sports.

Wonder why? hmm

http://www.tippcityschools.com/Page/4540

At least VASJ asked about all extra curricular activities, not just sports.
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  #100  
Old 04-04-17, 09:17 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Someone must be making the assumption that private schools are guilty and public school are innocent. I do not. Many public schools today have a "pay to play" fee and when discussing admission they want to make sure they inform the interested party.
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  #101  
Old 04-04-17, 09:48 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Someone must be making the assumption that private schools are guilty and public school are innocent. I do not. Many public schools today have a "pay to play" fee and when discussing admission they want to make sure they inform the interested party.
Nah...You're just stirring the pot. In your own words "its on there for a reason".

Here is fun fact...I have to pay athletic fees at my kids private high school too.
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  #102  
Old 04-04-17, 01:44 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Fees are a part of the private school district. As I said I never claimed the OE schools are innocent. I can say that when reviewing an application the potential fees for extracurricular programs are laid out.
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  #103  
Old 04-04-17, 04:19 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
Fees are a part of the private school district. As I said I never claimed the OE schools are innocent. I can say that when reviewing an application the potential fees for extracurricular programs are laid out.
What do you mean by "fees are part of the private school district?"
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  #104  
Old 04-04-17, 05:37 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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We paid fees at VASJ as well if a child played sports. Every school asks if the child has any extracurricular activities so the child can be forwarded to the director or coach of that activity. This allows kids with like interests to get directed to somebody who is aware of there presence. It allows kids to adapt socially with fellow band, choir, sports, cheering students to enhance their high school experience. You think every kid that walks in the door is 6'7 and can jump out of the gym. Watch 9th grade tryouts - that is not the case. I don't hear anybody complain about the level of baseball, football, wrestling, softball or golfers that attend the school and lose almost every contest. It just so happened that Joe's has a tradition rich basketball program that is white hot right now and a lot of area talent wants to play for them.
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  #105  
Old 04-04-17, 10:16 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
We paid fees at VASJ as well if a child played sports. Every school asks if the child has any extracurricular activities so the child can be forwarded to the director or coach of that activity. This allows kids with like interests to get directed to somebody who is aware of there presence. It allows kids to adapt socially with fellow band, choir, sports, cheering students to enhance their high school experience. You think every kid that walks in the door is 6'7 and can jump out of the gym. Watch 9th grade tryouts - that is not the case. I don't hear anybody complain about the level of baseball, football, wrestling, softball or golfers that attend the school and lose almost every contest. It just so happened that Joe's has a tradition rich basketball program that is white hot right now and a lot of area talent wants to play for them.


And all this time I thought you were trying to say they went their for the education.
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  #106  
Old 04-05-17, 06:50 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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454-

Are you really that ignorant ? Kids are ALL students first who happen to participate in extracurricular activities of all kinds. You try to make it sound like asking for extracurricular activities is the first question on a school application after they put their name on the top of the page. You really have no clue. You must live in Wayne Co with the rest of the people who have their heads up their butts. You are just a typical private school hater who is jealous of the success a private school has over your public. You don't know the first thing about how a school like VASJ operates - you just make stuff up to support your bias opinion.
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  #107  
Old 04-06-17, 03:23 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
They screen over 200 kids and about 150 or so make it. They do not want to regress into what they were before. They would gladly take 200 kids i in a year if they all meet the standards. People think that schools like Joe's only screen kids so they can excel at sports. If that was the case the other sports would be much better as well. Having first hand knowledge I can tell you NOBODY goes the Joe's FREE. Regardless of height, PPG, etc ALL the kids pay. Now based on economic situation some kids pay less - but that is the case with every kid in the school. A major majority of the student body is there to get an exceptional education in a much better environment then the local public school options.
And so, you make the perfect argument that one thing isn't like the other. In my previous example, Garaway isn't "screening" anyone. They have what the have, and then they have a handful of open enrollment students that aren't coming there for athletic opportunities as a rule.

And yet, the OHSAA says that Garaway and VASJ are on an equal competitive level - which they aren't, because of the "screening" you refer to.
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  #108  
Old 04-06-17, 06:00 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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How do we know Garaway is not screening for athletes and Joe's is ? Do you know that as a fact or is it your opinion ? Privates can screen to keep out kids that don't meet acedemic or behavior guidelines. They don't keep you out if you meet the criteria but can't dribble a basketball. The idea is to keep the school high from an education stand point otherwise it will become a CCC or worse yet close like Chanel.

By keeping the standards for entrance high it keeps out the undesirables who would be there for the wrong reasons while attracting kids and families who value a quality education. It just so happens that you can get an elite level education and play for one of the premier basketball programs in Ohio all at the same time.
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  #109  
Old 04-06-17, 06:53 PM
22 Acacia Ave 22 Acacia Ave is offline
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Do you really believe the drivel you post?
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  #110  
Old 04-06-17, 06:59 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
How do we know Garaway is not screening for athletes and Joe's is ? Do you know that as a fact or is it your opinion ? Privates can screen to keep out kids that don't meet acedemic or behavior guidelines. They don't keep you out if you meet the criteria but can't dribble a basketball. The idea is to keep the school high from an education stand point otherwise it will become a CCC or worse yet close like Chanel.

By keeping the standards for entrance high it keeps out the undesirables who would be there for the wrong reasons while attracting kids and families who value a quality education. It just so happens that you can get an elite level education and play for one of the premier basketball programs in Ohio all at the same time.
I know because I live with their parents, kids, teachers, and administrators. I work with them. I go to church with them. The school where I live competes with them. I get to see from year to year who their athletes are, and I know where they come from. And I know that they have no ability to keep "undesirables" out.

The thing that you don't want to hear is this: their athletes come from the district. They play with what they have. They have no problem with that, don't apologize for it, and aren't going to whine about it.

However, again, we have two schools in the exact same division, who will meet at some point if both are in contention for a state championship, but the one school and its basketball team is comprised in a very, very different way than the other is - and the biggest factor in that difference is in terms of athleticism, height, speed, and God-given talent - all of which are very handy when it comes to playing a basketball game.

So, if Garaway has a problem, it's not with VASJ, it's with the OHSAA in terms of not recognizing the differences in how these two teams are put together and creating a farce where the one competes against the other and we are supposed to recognize it as a fair fight.
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  #111  
Old 04-06-17, 07:08 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Originally Posted by IVCguy View Post
I know because I live with their parents, kids, teachers, and administrators. I work with them. I go to church with them. The school where I live competes with them. I get to see from year to year who their athletes are, and I know where they come from. And I know that they have no ability to keep "undesirables" out.

The thing that you don't want to hear is this: their athletes come from the district. They play with what they have. They have no problem with that, don't apologize for it, and aren't going to whine about it.

However, again, we have two schools in the exact same division, who will meet at some point if both are in contention for a state championship, but the one school and its basketball team is comprised in a very, very different way than the other is - and the biggest factor in that difference is in terms of athleticism, height, speed, and God-given talent - all of which are very handy when it comes to playing a basketball game.

So, if Garaway has a problem, it's not with VASJ, it's with the OHSAA in terms of not recognizing the differences in how these two teams are put together and creating a farce where the one competes against the other and we are supposed to recognize it as a fair fight.
Well said.
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  #112  
Old 04-06-17, 08:41 PM
22 Acacia Ave 22 Acacia Ave is offline
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Well said.
Ditto
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  #113  
Old 04-08-17, 01:14 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
454-

Are you really that ignorant ? Kids are ALL students first who happen to participate in extracurricular activities of all kinds. You try to make it sound like asking for extracurricular activities is the first question on a school application after they put their name on the top of the page. You really have no clue. You must live in Wayne Co with the rest of the people who have their heads up their butts. You are just a typical private school hater who is jealous of the success a private school has over your public. You don't know the first thing about how a school like VASJ operates - you just make stuff up to support your bias opinion.
Be clear, I have made nothing up. I'm in favor of a good education. A question we can ask is why does the care for a better education begin in high school for those who change schools at that point.
It's obvious we can agree to disagree. My hope is you are not so ignorant to believe the continued athletic success is because of the strong developmental programs in the sport and all the kids who play are in search of the education you speak of.
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  #114  
Old 04-08-17, 03:29 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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You do realize almost all of the VASJ Varsity team this year attended Catholic grade school prior to going to Joe's right ? 4 or 5 went to public prior to attended Joe's their freshman year.
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  #115  
Old 04-08-17, 08:05 PM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Since you know the families, who were the 4 or 5 players?
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  #116  
Old 04-09-17, 01:05 AM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Anthony Dinunziio - Wickliffe Middle - Bench
Oliver Carson - Hudson - Bench
Jerry Higgins - Wickliffe Middle - All Ohio PG
Graham Koppleman - Chardon - Bench - a parent works by the school.
Noah Newlon - Mayfield Middle - Starter - Father is a Coach
Jason Priah - Richmond Heights - Roll Player - Father is Alumni and HC at Richmond Hts
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  #117  
Old 04-09-17, 11:41 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by IVCguy View Post
I know because I live with their parents, kids, teachers, and administrators. I work with them. I go to church with them. The school where I live competes with them. I get to see from year to year who their athletes are, and I know where they come from. And I know that they have no ability to keep "undesirables" out.

The thing that you don't want to hear is this: their athletes come from the district. They play with what they have. They have no problem with that, don't apologize for it, and aren't going to whine about it.

However, again, we have two schools in the exact same division, who will meet at some point if both are in contention for a state championship, but the one school and its basketball team is comprised in a very, very different way than the other is - and the biggest factor in that difference is in terms of athleticism, height, speed, and God-given talent - all of which are very handy when it comes to playing a basketball game.

So, if Garaway has a problem, it's not with VASJ, it's with the OHSAA in terms of not recognizing the differences in how these two teams are put together and creating a farce where the one competes against the other and we are supposed to recognize it as a fair fight.
Excellent post, but you gloss over a couple of points. First, the home grown atmosphere of smaller community high schools simply doesn't exist in inner cities, for public or private schools. Look at successful programs like Coldwater in football or Jackson in basketball and you will likely see (because of demographics or finances) a well run youth program that is integrated with the high school program. I have yet to hear ANY public school supporter admit this is an advantage. But these types of programs simply do not exist in metropolitan environments. Catholic schools have CYO, but as has been pointed out a time or two, the students from these grade schools have several choices of where to go to high school and it is in no way the cohesive group you see smaller community programs. But in metropolitan communities (especially with open enrollment) these well defined basically dedicated feeder programs do not exist. The students can play together all they want, but come decision time as to where to go to high school, there are more choices available than in smaller communities. Second, I wonder if your sense of outrage would be the same if your wrestling team would go up against St. Paris Graham. It's an excellent program where young wrestlers go to develop their skills, to face the best competition and to put themselves in better shape to get a college scholarship. Sounds a little like the VASJ model in basketball, doesn't it? Would your outrage be the same if Garaway were compelled to compete against them? Further, on these threads we look at things through the prism of sports, but that gives a very myopic view of inner city private schools. It ignores the foot print these schools have on the inner city. It ignores the outreach and the impact their mission has on the community. On these threads, people pretend the only non-Catholics that go to inner city private schools are stud athletes, but that is absolutely not the case. I am not one to say private schools do not have advantages under OHSAA rules; with the ability to say "no" to a student applicant being #1. But to hear some posters (not you, but others) try to vilify inner city Catholic schools is disgraceful. And lastly, is the issue that Garaway has to compete against a metro private or that they have to compete against metro schools at all? Is the issue public versus private or metro versus county? I am more familiar with D2 basketball, so let me refer to that. This year, by far the best D2 was Trotwood Madison. It took a Herculean effort and a wee bit of help from the leprechaun for the Irish to beat them. But suppose the Rams had won that game. Would Wauseon have been in any different position to win that game than against STVM? Actually, the Rams' height would have matched up against them a little better than ST. V's did. So, is the complaint that your small community home grown team has to play against a private school, or would your argument be the same if you had to play an OE metro public?

Last edited by Irish60; 04-09-17 at 04:44 PM.
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  #118  
Old 04-09-17, 01:32 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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^^^
Look at successful programs like Coldwater in football or Jackson in basketball and you will likely see (because of demographics or finances) a well run youth program that is integrated with the high school program.

A number of years back, when my first grandson was in 7th grade and playing football at a school in a neighboring county, I went over to support him. Had the 7th grade game, ran the down marker, and then the 8th grade game. His school had a different system for each grade. When I spoke with the coach he said that they play with the capabilities of the QB that they have. All this time the high school coach was no where to be seen.
The team they happened to be playing that afternoon was the one from the school I follow. Except for the size of the players, it looked like Friday night. The formations, the sets, the verbiage were all the same. While the head coach wasn't there, one of the others was. When those kids got to high school, they were ready to be plugged in to the positions as needed and already were able to contribute. Those programs like the MAC schools have family lineage in the mix. Add aunts and uncles at other schools in the same conference and you have a bigger rivalry within families than with other schools sometimes.
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  #119  
Old 04-09-17, 06:51 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Look at successful programs like Coldwater in football or Jackson in basketball and you will likely see (because of demographics or finances) a well run youth program that is integrated with the high school program. I have yet to hear ANY public school supporter admit this is an advantage.
I agree that it's an advantage. An advantage for the kids who want to learn about basketball and be exposed to it in a positive environment. Even if those kids then choose to take that knowledge and experience to a private school or an open enrollment school when they get to high school. And yes, that does happen.
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  #120  
Old 04-10-17, 10:31 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
I agree that it's an advantage. An advantage for the kids who want to learn about basketball and be exposed to it in a positive environment. Even if those kids then choose to take that knowledge and experience to a private school or an open enrollment school when they get to high school. And yes, that does happen.
And I think those programs are great! Anything that keeps kids active and interactive are wonderful. And anything that helps promote learning the proper skills and teaching them teamwork, etc. is a tremendous benefit; even better. It's a model that should be emulated and repeated as much as possible. But it takes a commitment from the community, its families, its schools, its coaches and its administrators to make it work. But its a model that is unrealistic in metropolitan areas, for any number of reasons. Like the old saying goes, "If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it".
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