Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Boys Basketball

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-26-17, 01:34 PM
skyvue skyvue is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 04-02-04
Posts: 313
skyvue
What happened to offense, shooting and scoring?

Here were the state championship scores:

D1 - 39-38 = 77
D2 - 45-30 = 75
D3 - 54-52 = 106
D4 - 43-38 = 81

If you average those four games, it 84.75 point per game. I wonder how far back you have to go to find a tournament when the title games were this low scoring overall? I am guessing you may need to go back to the 50's?

To me, as a neutral observer, this was one of the ugliest set of title games I can remember seeing. All the games were close, which meant there was suspense and drama, but that does not mean they were well played. I was shocked and disappointed in particular in the quality of shooting and offensive skills I saw.

Last edited by skyvue; 03-26-17 at 01:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-26-17, 01:40 PM
Krasula24 Krasula24 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 01-06-15
Location: Wauseon
Posts: 221
Krasula24 is on a distinguished road
Because defense wins games
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-26-17, 01:49 PM
skyvue skyvue is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 04-02-04
Posts: 313
skyvue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krasula24 View Post
Because defense wins games
Just this year? Scoring was down almost 20 points per game from a normal year when most teams have won championships. SVSM, VASJ, Jackson and Lutheran East were not teams that were "low scoring" during most of their season. I think we just saw some bad offensive basketball, partially due to good defensive pressure. Just not a lot of kids who could "fill it up" like in past years. Javon Graves a notable exception.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-26-17, 01:57 PM
pete penny pete penny is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 12-26-12
Posts: 122
pete penny is on a distinguished road
What about the fact there are no offenses anymore. It's just drive and dish/kick out for 3. The 3 point shot is ruining the game.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-26-17, 01:59 PM
Krasula24 Krasula24 is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 01-06-15
Location: Wauseon
Posts: 221
Krasula24 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
Just this year? Scoring was down almost 20 points per game from a normal year when most teams have won championships. SVSM, VASJ, Jackson and Lutheran East were not teams that were "low scoring" during most of their season. I think we just saw some bad offensive basketball, partially due to good defensive pressure. Just not a lot of kids who could "fill it up" like in past years. Javon Graves a notable exception.
And I can agree with you on this. I've seen a lot more aggressive defense this year than I've see in a long time.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-26-17, 02:08 PM
afwpatfire afwpatfire is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-11-09
Location: Stark County
Posts: 3,730
afwpatfire is on a distinguished road
It's obviously defense and level of competition combined with the big stage. Scoring doesn't appear to be down as a whole, just the title games. Which shows that the factors in those games is what caused the low scoring.

I think teams sometimes crack under the pressure and the atmosphere at OSU which many have never experienced. Also I think the coaches seemed to feel more comfortable in these title games to limit their offenses so as not to create unwanted turnovers.

The fact is it doesn't matter how many points you score, you just need one more than the other team. Coaches seem to realize this, fans not so much.

Also if you have watched any basketball this year, this shouldn't surprise you. It's sloppy across the state with many missed layups and free throws. I think this is compounded in the Finals because the lack of open looks and easy shots.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-26-17, 02:39 PM
Raymo Raymo is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 12-30-09
Location: PRO FOOTBALL HOF CITY
Posts: 4,273
Raymo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete penny View Post
What about the fact there are no offenses anymore. It's just drive and dish/kick out for 3. The 3 point shot is ruining the game.
It already has,high school,college and pro game...BAM
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-26-17, 02:39 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 01-27-10
Location: McDonald, OH
Posts: 3,329
kingpin2010 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete penny View Post
What about the fact there are no offenses anymore. It's just drive and dish/kick out for 3. The 3 point shot is ruining the game.
Far from it. Basketball is evolving, the 3 point shot is the most efficient shot besides layups. Making just 35% of your 3's is the equivalent of shooting 52% or so from inside the arc. Make 40%? Shoot you gotta then shoot 60% from 2 to match. The mid-range shot is the worst shot in the game by far. Posting up is not very good either unless you have a decided advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-26-17, 02:50 PM
buckeye53 buckeye53 is online now
All Region
 
Join Date: 09-30-14
Location: SierraNevadaMtns. NorCal.
Posts: 255
buckeye53 is on a distinguished road
Go to the OHSAA site and look at the shooting %. Outside of VASJ, they were awful. So there was either some very good defense, or just very poor shot selection. As someone above stated about the 3 point game, it was absolutely horrendous.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-26-17, 03:15 PM
SeeYaSometime SeeYaSometime is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 08-16-05
Posts: 3,167
SeeYaSometime is on a distinguished road
How about all the stoppages in play for TV timeouts? Most 4 minutes. How many teams actually got into an offensive rhythm? Those who watched their school play, did you feel offensively your kids played their usual game? I doubt it. I think this had a big influence to the detriment to the games.

I understand the ohsaa wants the tv revenue and the station has to have advertising to pay for the broadcasts, but it certainly impedes the flow of the game for the players. These are high school kids, not the NBA, or even some colleges who are used to it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-26-17, 03:22 PM
sportsauthority101 sportsauthority101 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 05-25-15
Posts: 50
sportsauthority101 is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye53 View Post
Go to the OHSAA site and look at the shooting %. Outside of VASJ, they were awful. So there was either some very good defense, or just very poor shot selection. As someone above stated about the 3 point game, it was absolutely horrendous.
You must account for kids first time of playing in an arena and depth perception issues. I saw a ton of good misses with in and outs. There just aren't many free looks when you get to Columbus either. Longest, quickest, most talent in State along w/ background all lead to lower %
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-26-17, 03:38 PM
buckeye53 buckeye53 is online now
All Region
 
Join Date: 09-30-14
Location: SierraNevadaMtns. NorCal.
Posts: 255
buckeye53 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsauthority101 View Post
You must account for kids first time of playing in an arena and depth perception issues. I saw a ton of good misses with in and outs. There just aren't many free looks when you get to Columbus either. Longest, quickest, most talent in State along w/ background all lead to lower %
I'll agree, but by the 2nd qtr. you should be over it. I also agree with the TV stoppages keeping teams from getting on a roll. Anybody think a shot clock would speed things up and raise the scores ?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-26-17, 03:42 PM
afwpatfire afwpatfire is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 11-11-09
Location: Stark County
Posts: 3,730
afwpatfire is on a distinguished road
I think a shot clock would raise the scores slightly. Not gonna help teams make shots, though.

A shot clock has been discussed on here before and from what I gather would probably not be used in the near future. The expenses to each school to install shot clocks wiuld probably stall the voting just from a monetary stand point. Maybe some day.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-26-17, 04:22 PM
Lakeshore5 Lakeshore5 is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 10-11-13
Posts: 487
Lakeshore5 is on a distinguished road
One issue I see is that it seems all of the coaches tighten up and coach with fear. Everyone sits on the ball for the last minute of the quarter and tries to put a shot up when everyone knows it's coming. The same thing happens when a team gets a multiple possession lead, the leading team will slow things down if there isn't intense pressure, no matter the game situation. A shot clock would certainly help but coaches letting their players play the game would help as well. I feel this issue is amplified at the state tournament.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-26-17, 04:32 PM
Flood Flood is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 04-08-03
Posts: 2,804
Flood
What happened to offense, shooting and scoring?

The GCL is what happened to it. Just give us a 60 second shot clock for crying out loud.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-26-17, 04:34 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 11-17-14
Posts: 1,382
Irish60 is on a distinguished road
I fear a shot clock would lead to a lot of bad shots. In the pros, if they have 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock, they can still get off a good shot usually. But in watching college ball, when they start into a play late in the clock, they almost always are heaving up some desperation shot. I would suspect that it would be much the same if not worse for high school.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-26-17, 04:42 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 01-27-10
Location: McDonald, OH
Posts: 3,329
kingpin2010 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I fear a shot clock would lead to a lot of bad shots. In the pros, if they have 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock, they can still get off a good shot usually. But in watching college ball, when they start into a play late in the clock, they almost always are heaving up some desperation shot. I would suspect that it would be much the same if not worse for high school.
And? That's rewarding the defense for playing a good 30-35 seconds during that possession
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-26-17, 04:43 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-08-13
Posts: 2,181
Bball216 is on a distinguished road
The shot clock would not only add expenses to the schools in Ohio it will lead to smaller undermanned teams to get blown out even more. The saving grace right now is teams that are undermanned can spread the floor and slow the game down to a snail pace in an attempt to stay close and steal a game late. Take that away and you will see athletic teams just crushing teams.

As for why is scoring down - there is a lot at stake, a state title. There are several reasons but the biggest is teams play with caution - especially early on. It's a lot like a boxing match. Not many times do they come out like Hagler / Hearns swinging like crazy - they feel each other out. Many times a team does not know much about the squad they are playing. Missed shots especially long shots lead to fast breaks and teams are scared to fall behind quickly. Some teams have never been on this stage and are nervous and timid.

Look at the VASJ / Bacon and Jackson / Moeller game. Those were one or two possession games almost all the way through. Every possession is huge and pressure filled. Missed shots, turnovers and mistakes are amplified in close games so teams pass up shots they would normally take in an effort to get the easiest shot they can get. Don't forget these are still kids and they all feel the pressure of the moment. Defense always travels well and offense lags, even more so in the state finals.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-26-17, 04:52 PM
Flood Flood is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 04-08-03
Posts: 2,804
Flood
A 60 sec shot clock wouldn't be enough time for a decent shot? So maybe "stalling" should be a legitimate skill that's explicitly taught at the next coaches conference. At the summer basketball camps, we will teach the following skills:
Dribbling
Passing
Shooting
Rebounding
Defense
and STALLING!

Very important skill to be competitive.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-26-17, 04:58 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 11-17-14
Posts: 1,382
Irish60 is on a distinguished road
The shot clock is a solution in search of a problem. Why should OHSAA choose one style of play over another? A good team like Jackson over the season showed they can play up tempo and in a slow down game. Isn't that the mark of a good team. Also, a shot clock would remove part of the chess game out of the sport. Who can control the tempo? Can a team be forced to come out of its zone? Although I prefer an up tempo style, there is room in the sport for more than one style of play.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 03-26-17, 05:00 PM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-07-01
Location: Grove City
Posts: 7,485
ohiopup is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
The GCL is what happened to it. Just give us a 60 second shot clock for crying out loud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
I fear a shot clock would lead to a lot of bad shots. In the pros, if they have 5-6 seconds left on the shot clock, they can still get off a good shot usually. But in watching college ball, when they start into a play late in the clock, they almost always are heaving up some desperation shot. I would suspect that it would be much the same if not worse for high school.


Jackson
Fga 37
3pa 15
Total shots 52


Moeller
Fga 37
3pa 8
Total shots 45

32 Min = 1920 seconds

total shots (both teams) Fga+3pa = 97

1920/97 = 19.8 seconds

Average ... 1 attempt every 20 (-) seconds

:>---

Scrambled eggs: Slang / The gold braid worn on the bill of the cap of a field-
grade officer in the armed services.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-26-17, 05:02 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 12-08-13
Posts: 2,181
Bball216 is on a distinguished road
I think the Lake vs Garfield Heights game was a final where both teams were in the 20. They knew they could not run with GH so the game became a battle of attrition. Take that ability away and Lake gets 40 balled by the Bulldawgs.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-26-17, 05:05 PM
Flood Flood is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 04-08-03
Posts: 2,804
Flood
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiopup View Post
Jackson
Fga 37
3pa 15
Total shots 52


Moeller
Fga 37
3pa 8
Total shots 45

32 Min = 1920 seconds

total shots (both teams) Fga+3pa = 97

1920/97 = 19.8 seconds

Average ... 1 attempt every 20 (-) seconds

:>---

Scrambled eggs: Slang / The gold braid worn on the bill of the cap of a field-
grade officer in the armed services.
I would love to see the number of FIRST SHOT ATTEMPTS OF A POSSESSION (per second of the game). I'm sure many of the total shots were quick shots off of rebounds. Your average attempts per second is a bit misleading in terms of the true pace of the game.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-26-17, 05:20 PM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
All Yappi
 
Join Date: 05-07-01
Location: Grove City
Posts: 7,485
ohiopup is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
I would love to see the number of FIRST SHOT ATTEMPTS OF A POSSESSION (per second of the game). I'm sure many of the total shots were quick shots off of rebounds. Your average attempts per second is a bit misleading in terms of the true pace of the game.
There were a total of 18 points (put back / 2nd chance)
that's 9 attempts even if that is 50%=18 tries...

97 - 18 = 79 (@ 50%)

1920 / 79 = 24+ seconds average

---

97 - 27 = 70 (@ 1/3 made)

1920 / 70 = 27+ seconds average

:>---

Scrambled eggs: Slang / The gold braid worn on the bill of the cap of a field-
grade officer in the armed services.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-26-17, 05:36 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 01-27-10
Location: McDonald, OH
Posts: 3,329
kingpin2010 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
The shot clock is a solution in search of a problem. Why should OHSAA choose one style of play over another? A good team like Jackson over the season showed they can play up tempo and in a slow down game. Isn't that the mark of a good team. Also, a shot clock would remove part of the chess game out of the sport. Who can control the tempo? Can a team be forced to come out of its zone? Although I prefer an up tempo style, there is room in the sport for more than one style of play.
That's simply not correct. The NBA has a 24 second shot clock and there's a vast difference in play style from the up tempo teams (Warriors, Rockets) and the teams that slow it down (Jazz, Grizzlies) in fact, the Warriors average about 10 more possessions per game than the jazz do. However, passing the ball around and stalling is not a play style, as shown you can control tempo with a 24 second shot clock, I'm sure teams could manage with a 40 second one.

As for making blow-outs worse, easy solution is do like the football rule, game gets over 30 and turn the shot clock off.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-26-17, 05:57 PM
BlueDevilHoops BlueDevilHoops is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: 11-13-13
Posts: 31
BlueDevilHoops is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
The shot clock would not only add expenses to the schools in Ohio it will lead to smaller undermanned teams to get blown out even more. The saving grace right now is teams that are undermanned can spread the floor and slow the game down to a snail pace in an attempt to stay close and steal a game late. Take that away and you will see athletic teams just crushing teams.
Simply not correct. No shot clock favors the athletic teams. Very difficult to stall if your are not the better team.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-26-17, 06:39 PM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
All American
 
Join Date: 04-06-06
Location: Lurking around
Posts: 1,166
Bo Kimble is on a distinguished road
I have been waiting for this to pop up....

1. Teams mimick the college game, limit run outs & pts in transition from the opposition, so they'll tackle from the 3 pt line in. Secondly any contact where defender hedges backwards, becomes an automatic foul.

2. Teams (in probably a method for coaches to better micromanage the action) walk it up after rebounds, limit transition 3s, limit any 3 for that matter, and do not extend. The game is based on spacing, speed, grace, and fluid play.

3. (Extension of point 2) teams and coaches, seem to play more of the "don't get beat" than "play to win".... that's really not the essence of this sport or any other....

4. Games @ the Schott have to be different, that depth perception is different and by the 2nd game should be a little better. HS hoops are in a weird place at each 3-pt arc.

Some games with scores that are really low are almost unwatchable
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-26-17, 08:02 PM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 02-22-17
Posts: 50
HardCorps is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
A 60 sec shot clock wouldn't be enough time for a decent shot? So maybe "stalling" should be a legitimate skill that's explicitly taught at the next coaches conference. At the summer basketball camps, we will teach the following skills:
Dribbling
Passing
Shooting
Rebounding
Defense
and STALLING!

Very important skill to be competitive.
Executing an offense until you get a layup or a preferred open shot is not necessarily stalling.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-26-17, 08:10 PM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: 02-22-17
Posts: 50
HardCorps is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
The shot clock is a solution in search of a problem. Why should OHSAA choose one style of play over another? A good team like Jackson over the season showed they can play up tempo and in a slow down game. Isn't that the mark of a good team. Also, a shot clock would remove part of the chess game out of the sport. Who can control the tempo? Can a team be forced to come out of its zone? Although I prefer an up tempo style, there is room in the sport for more than one style of play.
I agree with you 60. I like when it comes down to a battle of wills, skills, discipline, and brains.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-26-17, 08:18 PM
Sgt Friday Sgt Friday is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 11-11-05
Posts: 468
Sgt Friday is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete penny View Post
What about the fact there are no offenses anymore. It's just drive and dish/kick out for 3. The 3 point shot is ruining the game.


Definitely some truth in this statement. Watch kids warm up at any level and they shoot 80% three pointers. Not all of them but a great majority. When you make teams work on both ends of the floor those threes just get tougher


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2015 - 2016 Canton McKinley Boys Basketball Stats IUDOGS Boys Basketball 146 11-06-16 07:40 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz