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  #31  
Old 03-26-17, 04:01 PM
skyvue skyvue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfan88 View Post
Do you really believe it would be fair and good judgement to first, assume all private schools are on a level playing field, second, that they all recruit the same way you assume some of the them do, and that this would be good policy? Should a school such as delphos St. John's really be expected to compete with moeller, st Ed's, of st X?? All of this because you're mad at a handful of schools that you believe are cheating?? Why not scold the ohsaa for being such a spineless organization who won't punish any school with any real penalty


No, I am not saying I would. That's is why I said I would be open to "considering" only as a compromise position vs eliminating transfers and student choice. I think I would prefer the status quo given the choice. I don't think there is any reason to punish anybody. Above all else though, I want kids to be able to choose where they go to school without penalty in athletics.


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  #32  
Old 03-26-17, 04:18 PM
GCPRO GCPRO is offline
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I'm not really sure how much private schools recruit but in each area of the state there are programs that will draw good basketball players. Is SVSM any different than Dunbar? If you can play you will get to a school that showcases you.
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  #33  
Old 03-26-17, 04:35 PM
3out2in 3out2in is offline
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Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
I do think playing up, or having an Open Division, is a concept the OHSAA should incorporate. The chief complainers are from the smaller, rural publics and some of their complaints have merit.
I'd like to see this as well as long as we don't exceed 4 divisions. I think this, along with competitive balance would go a long way to helping the problem.
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  #34  
Old 03-26-17, 04:58 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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No matter what schools and fans will cry. If you remove ALL the private schools the urban public schools will dominate. The rural teams will NEVER be happy. They will complain and lobby against the urban schools and the schools with open enrollment. Not every team has the ability or wherewithal to compete for a state title - that will not change regardless of any for of CBP. Bad and undeserving programs will still be that after the CBP. People are going to freak out when they realize how small some of these schools are and that they will stay in the same division even with the CBP.
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  #35  
Old 03-26-17, 05:10 PM
Flood Flood is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
If you remove ALL the private schools the urban public schools will dominate.
Really? Which urban publics would dominate in basketball if privates left? Canton McKinley?
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  #36  
Old 03-26-17, 05:14 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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Lower division schools - the ones that do all the complaining. The Warrensville Heights, Beachwood, etc type schools would be very tough for the rural schools to deal with. D1 will always be competitive with or without the privates. The biggest complainers are the lower divisions - not D1.
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  #37  
Old 03-26-17, 05:34 PM
sportsauthority101 sportsauthority101 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Lower division schools - the ones that do all the complaining. The Warrensville Heights, Beachwood, etc type schools would be very tough for the rural schools to deal with. D1 will always be competitive with or without the privates. The biggest complainers are the lower divisions - not D1.
Agree except Mentor and Jackson gripe when lose and brag when win! FACT!!
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  #38  
Old 03-26-17, 05:43 PM
Bo Kimble Bo Kimble is offline
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Originally Posted by sportsauthority101 View Post

Start your Public only tournament and the Private will have theirs. Guarantee you which one the fans will watch!
Assuming that they'll be at the same time, the competition for attendance and money will be pretty lopsided
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  #39  
Old 03-26-17, 07:59 PM
Paydirt Paydirt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfan88 View Post
Do you really believe it would be fair and good judgement to first, assume all private schools are on a level playing field, second, that they all recruit the same way you assume some of the them do, and that this would be good policy? Should a school such as delphos St. John's really be expected to compete with moeller, st Ed's, of st X?? All of this because you're mad at a handful of schools that you believe are cheating?? Why not scold the ohsaa for being such a spineless organization who won't punish any school with any real penalty
Bingo
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  #40  
Old 03-26-17, 08:13 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bball216 View Post
Lower division schools - the ones that do all the complaining. The Warrensville Heights, Beachwood, etc type schools would be very tough for the rural schools to deal with. D1 will always be competitive with or without the privates. The biggest complainers are the lower divisions - not D1.
Really? Without the private schools, Wauseon would have probably won D-2 and Versailles would have had a good shot at D-3. Never less it would be a much more level playing field.
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  #41  
Old 03-26-17, 08:21 PM
Bball216 Bball216 is offline
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I would not be so sure. There were two public schools in the VASJ district that could have beaten every team Joe's faced except for Bacon this year.
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  #42  
Old 03-26-17, 08:24 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
If it's a reasonably wealthy district, your public school district will likely win plenty of sporting events. If not, you probably won't.
Did not know Dayton Dunbar and Dayton Jefferson were wealthy school districts, both have won multiple state championships in basketball.
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  #43  
Old 03-26-17, 09:41 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I think adding the multiplier plus perhaps exploring the possibility of making DI an "open" division solves most of the problems with the current system. Splitting would be the worst possible solution, IMO.

I disagree that urban schools would roll everyone if a split were to happen, especially in the lower divisions. Outside of Dunbar, what lower division urban public has consistently won under the current system? In the NW district, the TCL schools in D2 routinely lose to the rural schools at the sectional and district levels. The Ottawa-Glandorfs, Lincolnviews, Archbolds and Fort Loramies from the rural area between Dayton and Toledo (think MAC, WBL, SCAL, NWOAL, NWC and BVC schools) that consistently make deep runs and occasionally win in the current system would more often than not win the lower divisions in a hypothetical publics only tournament.
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  #44  
Old 03-27-17, 06:34 AM
JAS JAS is offline
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One thing no one has mentioned that if you separate private schools, they will make their own rules and make "recruiting" worse than before. A lot of private schools skirt the rules now but imagine how bad things would be if they had their own rules. It would be the Wild West!
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  #45  
Old 03-27-17, 06:44 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by JAS View Post
One thing no one has mentioned that if you separate private schools, they will make their own rules and make "recruiting" worse than before. A lot of private schools skirt the rules now but imagine how bad things would be if they had their own rules. It would be the Wild West!
You know, I have heard this argument, but by separating tournaments, the privates would still be part of OHSAA and still subject to its rules and bylaws. So I'm not sure how big of an issue this would be.
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  #46  
Old 03-27-17, 07:02 AM
Jaws31 Jaws31 is offline
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Originally Posted by sportsauthority101 View Post
Everyone has choices in life. If ppl want to move, they can move. Garfield, Shaker, Huber Hts. - they have more transfers than anyone. Jackson & Mentor always say proud of homegrown...they're also are very fortunate to have wealthy communities with huge enrollments. How many ppl move to Mentor or Jackson when their kids are young for sports reasons? When you have pool of 2500-4000 kids, you should be able to beat private schools.

Jackson coach is a knucklehead to talk "homegrown" in post game interview. He just got 3-4 calls that gave him the game and he gloats about being homegrown? He also got all the breaks versus Eds with the Officials. Possible Ref Agenda? He better enjoy this one - not every year do you have 5 kids like that in one town!

Wealthy communities with quality living have their own unfair advantages where ppl choose to live and play for FREE....and Mentor/Jackson enrollment size prooves it. Catholic school parents pay $2500+ year for grade schools and $8-$15K for HS. Kids that attend the private schools don't live in great school districts with great sports programs. Many drive their kids an hour each way for 2-3 years or even 4.... every day! Kids get home at 8 with dinner, shower, and 3 hours of homework. You fools condemn ppl who want to be part of great programs AND who pay for and experience what you do - for free?

If you want to live in a rural community and can't compete, either; move, get better, or accept your fate.

Start your Public only tournament and the Private will have theirs. Guarantee you which one the fans will watch!
Great post. The public sympathizers who want trophies to be handed to their kids have no clue of the sacrifices that are made more often than not.
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  #47  
Old 03-27-17, 07:50 AM
ucfpengbuck ucfpengbuck is offline
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The denial gets deeper every year. All the private school backer have long drawn out rationalization that would make a drunken congressman blush.
I don't care if you get the best players from a larger radius than an average public school.
Please just for once admit that you have an advantage fair or unfair.
Tired of hearing about superior education.
Don't want to hear about giving a kid an opportunity to escape an inner-city school. College recruiters know what kids can play from aau and camps not your prestigious high school.
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  #48  
Old 03-27-17, 07:53 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaws31 View Post
Great post. The public sympathizers who want trophies to be handed to their kids have no clue of the sacrifices that are made more often than not.
I like how some posters like to label other posters because they have a different view point. My children played sports, I realize how hard individuals have to work if they want to succeed. Hard work is not a monopoly owned by "Catholic schools or other private schools". But it does not matter how hard an individual or team works when facing a recruited loaded AAU team that also works hard. The more talented team is usually going to win, it is like bringing a knife ( the publics) to a gun fight ( the privates having the gun). Their is nothing wrong with having a level playing field, or are the Catholic schools afraid they couldn't compete if everything was on a level playing field.

Last edited by Stirred not Shaken; 03-27-17 at 08:32 AM.
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  #49  
Old 03-27-17, 08:04 AM
Malabar10 Malabar10 is offline
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I was really disappointed in the OHSAA tournament program this year at the Boys Basketball tournament. They had not one team roster with the player's home town listed in their stat line. . That sonic boom you just heard was Wayne County exploding. Don't forget Title IX, the private girls won 3 of 4 championships too!!!!!
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  #50  
Old 03-27-17, 08:15 AM
McK93 McK93 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaws31 View Post
Great post. The public sympathizers who want trophies to be handed to their kids have no clue of the sacrifices that are made more often than not.
Yes, kids only sacrifice at private schools. Jesus H. Christ could you be more arrogant? Talk about not having a clue.
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  #51  
Old 03-27-17, 08:40 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by 22 Acacia Ave View Post
But then how would the small private schools with big city talent win banners for their gymnasiums without D5, D6 and D7 farmers to walk over?
I am guessing Coldwater, Marion Local, Kirtland, and a few of the other MAC teams will be just fine.
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  #52  
Old 03-27-17, 09:31 AM
MattManson22 MattManson22 is offline
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvue View Post
I would be open to considering a split, but only if it did not create even more divisions and further water down the accomplishment of a state title. We already have one too many divisions in basketball and 3 too many in football in my opinion!

For basketball though, one division for all private schools and 3 for the public schools would be roughly equivalent to what we have today. It would perhaps satisfy all the "recruiting and transfer" complainers, which would be a better outcome than actually putting in rules that prevented kids from transferring whenever they want to.
I love this idea. Does anyone see issues with this ?
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  #53  
Old 03-27-17, 09:42 AM
bass10 bass10 is offline
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"Jackson coach is a knucklehead to talk "homegrown" in post game interview. He just got 3-4 calls that gave him the game and he gloats about being homegrown? He also got all the breaks versus Eds with the Officials. Possible Ref Agenda? He better enjoy this one - not every year do you have 5 kids like that in one town! "


You're right, I'd much rather hear a coach say he had to take the best star players from 4 different districts and one other state and get them to be able to play together in just 4 short years. Being proud of "your" team in your district is not a bad thing, it's actually what HS sports should be about.

"Start your Public only tournament and the Private will have theirs. Guarantee you which one the fans will watch!"

You are so oblivious, here in NE Ohio I can tell you fans followed and embraced Jackson from many communities and their league members rooted for them big time., StV, ho hum, very, very little out of StV supporters could give two shiz. Just another good AAU circuit trail for coach Dru. Privates will be much less watched, guaranteed.
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  #54  
Old 03-27-17, 09:59 AM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
You know, I have heard this argument, but by separating tournaments, the privates would still be part of OHSAA and still subject to its rules and bylaws. So I'm not sure how big of an issue this would be.
The private schools could, in theory, have enough capital to form their own association.
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  #55  
Old 03-27-17, 10:00 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by MattManson22 View Post
I love this idea. Does anyone see issues with this ?
Yes.
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  #56  
Old 03-27-17, 10:09 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
The private schools could, in theory, have enough capital to form their own association.
Could be, but that's a completely different scenario than simply having separate tournaments. I'm not sure what advantage there would be for the private schools to leave OHSAA. Or should I say, I can't think of an advantage that would be significant enough to get the private schools to agree to leave. Most people follow the path of least resistance; which would be to go along with separate tournaments, if that is the direction taken.
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  #57  
Old 03-27-17, 10:10 AM
yakyak yakyak is offline
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Someone said it best earlier, the kids don't care about any of this. Adults just need to organize the events and follow what rules are established.

Adults are pushing all these problems. We have a set of rules (lots of really bad cons and really good benefits), follow them. People will break the rules, some will be caught others will be not. What is hard about all this?

I want to say its the liberal Ameritopia crowd trying to make everthing perfect for every person on the planet. Just like how Rome tried.
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  #58  
Old 03-27-17, 10:23 AM
Tesoro Tesoro is offline
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Times haven't changed.....the level of integrity has.
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  #59  
Old 03-27-17, 10:26 AM
Krasula24 Krasula24 is offline
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All this priavte and public whining need to stop. I hope the OHSAA doesn't change a single thing. I prefer the mashup. If you want to be the best, you gotta take out the best.
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  #60  
Old 03-27-17, 10:43 AM
22 Acacia Ave 22 Acacia Ave is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
I am guessing Coldwater, Marion Local, Kirtland, and a few of the other MAC teams will be just fine.
Sure. But the measure would hurt the small PRIVATE schools. JFK, Canton catholic, Alter and Hartley would never win a championship again! They wouldn't be playing the farmers throughout the playoffs anymore.
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