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  #61  
Old 02-04-17, 04:25 PM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
It's hard to say -- sometimes programs can get exposed pretty badly by changing leagues. Winning begets winning and all that, and you go from 9-1 every year to having some 5-5 type years and a couple losing seasons sprinkled in. Depth issues could be a problem. I agree though, I think Louisville would be fine in the Fed. They hang with Hoover always, and there's not much difference between the all of the Fed football squads (other than Green) these days. As long as they get to 6-4 they're good to make the postseason in D3, and very well prepared.

The other sports are going to be a wipeout, though. That's going to stir up some problems.
Wouldn't be a wipeout in boys CC and softball. Probably reasonably competitive in volleyball, girls soccer. Probably an uphill battle in most everything else. My guess is lots of finishes between 5-8.
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  #62  
Old 02-04-17, 05:20 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by joelmama View Post
Sorry do the math you cannot justify that number in any possible way.
So Football has Varsity, JV, Freshman and Jr High 4 teams with five trips each 20 trips. Assume 5 busses for varsity and 1 for all other levels.
Basketball has trips for Varsity, Freshman and Jr High trips same for girls about 11 trips for varsity and about 9 for the others. Total trips is 58.
Baseball and Softball has Varsity and JV and has about 10-12 trips for each say a total of 44 trips for both sports.
Wrestling has Varsity and Jr High and most trips are group meets that would not change a lot with a league change lets assume that you would have 7 longer trips in each for a total of 14 trips.
Soccer has Varsity JV together and Jr High. About 8 trips for each total of 32 for both boys and girls.
Lacrosse is not sponsored by Suburban league so that should not change at all.
Swimming, cross country and track both genders travel together and would have about 7 travels for each sport. I do not think there is sponsored swimming below high school so for JR High and Varsity there are a total of 5 sports with a total of 35 trips.

That is only slightly above 200 trips. Football certainly takes extra buses.
If they did take buses for Golf, Tennis etc add another 50 trips. Add an extra 4-5 busses for football. that still is less than 300 trips.

Mr Slippery did the math and the extra mileage for Green Suburban vs. Fed was 100 miles per sport per season. Lets double that difference and make it 200 miles difference per sport and say there is 25 sports for 5000 miles are you then trying to say that each mile costs $60? That is what it takes to reach $300K difference. Or if you take my 300 trips and say each trip is now 20 miles longer that is 6000 miles so each mile would only cost $50. Of course you need to factor in that your current OOC matches and games are now probably closer than they were previously so take something like 20% off that and you are back to $60 per mile.

I stand by what I say and will tell you that $300,000 difference is completely and utterly wrong.


Mr. Slippery said 6-7 buses for a coed track meet is out of his mind. That would mean that they are transporting 250 people? Do the meets take 12 hours?
I am still staying with what I was told. Erich Muzi is the AD at Green, played football and graduated from GlenOak...was the driving force to have Green join the Fed. Scott Garcia is the AD at GlenOak and head football coach. On his staff there are coaches that coached Erich when he played for GlenOak. I got my info from my conversation with GlenOak. I am still staying with what I was told.
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  #63  
Old 02-04-17, 05:22 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by The Butler View Post
Outside of football, boys and girls basketball that's McKinley.
Mr. Butler...I think the GlenOak girls basketball might want to say something..lol
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  #64  
Old 02-04-17, 05:56 PM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluestreakoffice View Post
Mr. Butler...I think the GlenOak girls basketball might want to say something..lol
I think his point was that McKinley is only a realistic title threat in those three sports (FB, GBB, BBB) and finish mostly in the bottom half of the league in the other sports.
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  #65  
Old 02-04-17, 06:19 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by BGFalcons86 View Post
I think his point was that McKinley is only a realistic title threat in those three sports (FB, GBB, BBB) and finish mostly in the bottom half of the league in the other sports.
I picked up on what he said but GlenOak Girls hoops team is building a pretty good program and I think they will be the team that dominates for awhile. I think with McKinley and Timken's consolidation, McKinley's track and baseball teams will be much better and could give GlenOak and Jackson much better games. Heck with their numbers in boys sports they could become more dominate then they already are, possibly even accomplish what Louisville did in the NBC. Now I said they could...that doesn't mean they will do it.....just having 300 more boys then GlenOak and 600 more then Lake gives them more options
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  #66  
Old 02-04-17, 07:33 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelmama View Post
Sorry do the math you cannot justify that number in any possible way.
So Football has Varsity, JV, Freshman and Jr High 4 teams with five trips each 20 trips. Assume 5 busses for varsity and 1 for all other levels.
Basketball has trips for Varsity, Freshman and Jr High trips same for girls about 11 trips for varsity and about 9 for the others. Total trips is 58.
Baseball and Softball has Varsity and JV and has about 10-12 trips for each say a total of 44 trips for both sports.
Wrestling has Varsity and Jr High and most trips are group meets that would not change a lot with a league change lets assume that you would have 7 longer trips in each for a total of 14 trips.
Soccer has Varsity JV together and Jr High. About 8 trips for each total of 32 for both boys and girls.
Lacrosse is not sponsored by Suburban league so that should not change at all.
Swimming, cross country and track both genders travel together and would have about 7 travels for each sport. I do not think there is sponsored swimming below high school so for JR High and Varsity there are a total of 5 sports with a total of 35 trips.

That is only slightly above 200 trips. Football certainly takes extra buses.
If they did take buses for Golf, Tennis etc add another 50 trips. Add an extra 4-5 busses for football. that still is less than 300 trips.

Mr Slippery did the math and the extra mileage for Green Suburban vs. Fed was 100 miles per sport per season. Lets double that difference and make it 200 miles difference per sport and say there is 25 sports for 5000 miles are you then trying to say that each mile costs $60? That is what it takes to reach $300K difference. Or if you take my 300 trips and say each trip is now 20 miles longer that is 6000 miles so each mile would only cost $50. Of course you need to factor in that your current OOC matches and games are now probably closer than they were previously so take something like 20% off that and you are back to $60 per mile.

I stand by what I say and will tell you that $300,000 difference is completely and utterly wrong.


Mr. Slippery said 6-7 buses for a coed track meet is out of his mind. That would mean that they are transporting 250 people? Do the meets take 12 hours?
Not out of my mind at all. Jackson has ridiculously high participation rates in cross country and track. I have friends who coach at other Fed schools, and 1 said Jackson pulled in with 7 buses at their dual meet last spring. I've driven behind them as they made their way back to Jackson after the county XC meet. I passed 6 buses.

Is Louisville taking 6 or 7 buses to some of these sporting events? No, but you can begin to see where it is possible to save greater amounts of money on transportation when a school is fielding larger teams.

Just for fun, let's look at potential travel for the Leopards in the Suburban American vs. the Fed:
Louisville's mileage 1-way in the Suburban American (7 locations): 263.8 miles
Louisville's mileage 1-way in the Fed (7 locations): 97.7 miles

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 02-04-17 at 07:47 PM.
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  #67  
Old 02-04-17, 10:05 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by BGFalcons86 View Post
Wouldn't be a wipeout in boys CC and softball. Probably reasonably competitive in volleyball, girls soccer. Probably an uphill battle in most everything else. My guess is lots of finishes between 5-8.
Wipeout probably is a little harsh. I think the problem is going to come when those 5-8 finishes are piling up in multiple sports. Parents take whatever sport their kid is in deathly serious. Going from near the top to the back is going to be a shock.

I still don't understand why the NBC ejected Louisville in the first place. Minerva was even their week 10 rival for 50-some years! It's not like Louisville would have dominated the gridiron from here until the end of time. Someone would have stepped up. Marlington did it this past year.
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  #68  
Old 02-04-17, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelValley View Post
Any interest out of Louisville to join the Youngstown-based AAC? I think school size-wise it's s good fit. And I'd think the drive is no worse than Suburban league? Louisville would likely be in a tier with Boardman, Fitch, Warren Harding, Canfield, Howland, Youngstown East and Lakeside.
I remember Louisville put on a dog and pony show for the AAC higher-ups, but I forget which side said forget it (maybe both)

Maybe the headache of all of the large schools trying to be in a conference and trying to avoid playing one another all at the same time was a turn-off.
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  #69  
Old 02-05-17, 07:36 AM
BGFalcons86 BGFalcons86 is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
Wipeout probably is a little harsh. I think the problem is going to come when those 5-8 finishes are piling up in multiple sports. Parents take whatever sport their kid is in deathly serious. Going from near the top to the back is going to be a shock.

I still don't understand why the NBC ejected Louisville in the first place. Minerva was even their week 10 rival for 50-some years! It's not like Louisville would have dominated the gridiron from here until the end of time. Someone would have stepped up. Marlington did it this past year.
Oh, I agree. I'm not a big supporter of Louisville's re-entry into the Fed, in its current configuration. I'd be OK with a two-tier setup with Green, Lake, Perry and Wooster. However, I don't think the Fed has any taste for a two-tier league.

I think the NBC used Louisville's enrollment numbers as a part of the reason, although Louisville isn't that much larger than either Alliance or Marlington. Louisville has become pretty dominant in terms of number of the overall NBC titles won over the past 5 years or so and that is likely the real reason why the NBC wants Louisville out.
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  #70  
Old 02-05-17, 07:43 PM
dig it dig it is offline
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If Louisville joins the FL, will they continue their Little Leopard program in 7th and 8th grade?

I always felt that was probably the biggest advantage they held over other NBC schools when it came to football. It seemed to me to be the origin of "quality depth" the rest of the league could never catch up with.
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  #71  
Old 02-05-17, 08:10 PM
go_leps go_leps is offline
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Originally Posted by dig it View Post
If Louisville joins the FL, will they continue their Little Leopard program in 7th and 8th grade?

I always felt that was probably the biggest advantage they held over other NBC schools when it came to football. It seemed to me to be the origin of "quality depth" the rest of the league could never catch up with.
The Lil Leps program isn't going anywhere and will continue as is. Believe me. There has been a slight decline in turnout in recent years though
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  #72  
Old 02-05-17, 08:52 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Originally Posted by BGFalcons86 View Post
Oh, I agree. I'm not a big supporter of Louisville's re-entry into the Fed, in its current configuration. I'd be OK with a two-tier setup with Green, Lake, Perry and Wooster. However, I don't think the Fed has any taste for a two-tier league.
Yeah, a two-tier setup would be a non-starter for the Fed. Putting Perry in the second tier even though they just won the whole league doesn't make much sense. Wooster would never come back -- they were a perennial basement dweller and separated from their natural geographic rivals. I think the only way you can get a two-tier setup is to start adding schools that just decided they were done playing Louisville.

I still don't see the sense in ejecting them from the NBC. Very short sighted, I think. Hoover dominated the Fed in football for decades, but that ended too. You'd think they'd rather try to beat the top dog instead of just giving up.
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  #73  
Old 02-05-17, 09:04 PM
Andy27 Andy27 is offline
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Originally Posted by go_leps View Post
The Lil Leps program isn't going anywhere and will continue as is. Believe me. There has been a slight decline in turnout in recent years though
Turnout has been down even in high school football recently.

All levels at GlenOak were down significantly this past year too.
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  #74  
Old 02-05-17, 09:33 PM
dig it dig it is offline
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Originally Posted by go_leps View Post
The Lil Leps program isn't going anywhere and will continue as is. Believe me. There has been a slight decline in turnout in recent years though
Thanks go leps,...hate to say it, but 10 years from now, I'm not even sure we will recognize the game of football as we know it.
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  #75  
Old 02-06-17, 08:28 AM
Mr. General Mr. General is offline
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Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
Wooster would never come back -- they were a perennial basement dweller and separated from their natural geographic rivals.
I know from first-hand experience that Wooster has put feelers out there that they would be interested in a return to the Federal League under the right circumstances. In Wooster's first year in the Federal in 1989, there were two tiers, and they won their only FLC that year. After that, they went through about 10 years of serious lack of talent on the gridiron. With Orrville wanting no part of the 100+ year rivalry anymore, Wooster would still be able to schedule Ashland in a non-conference game. Regardless, I don't see the Federal ever returning to a two-tier system. If they did though, Wooster would be interested.
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  #76  
Old 02-06-17, 08:55 AM
Bandit22 Bandit22 is offline
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which brings us to - why is there even a need for wooster to have a two tier fed???

IF wooster was serious and had Lville and CCC sitting there ready, and dover and phila interested then why would wooster couple with west holmes and start a 6 team league. two others will apply in a couple years. Totally by pass needing a league to go two tiers when you can just create your own league. That would be 6 teams and that takes care of the back half of the season from a scheduling stand point. Finding weeks 1-5 is much easier than 6-10
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  #77  
Old 02-06-17, 01:37 PM
COACH_XYZ&12345 COACH_XYZ&12345 is offline
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Opinions and debates aside, after the dust settles, Louisville will end up joining the Federal league. It's like when you were that kid who got into trouble at school back in the day heading to the principle's office, you know that paddling is coming, however unsure how much its going to hurt.
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  #78  
Old 02-06-17, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH_XYZ&12345 View Post
Opinions and debates aside, after the dust settles, Louisville will end up joining the Federal league. It's like when you were that kid who got into trouble at school back in the day heading to the principle's office, you know that paddling is coming, however unsure how much its going to hurt.
Yes, it is the lesser of two evils for Louisville. BUT, don't be surprised WHEN they compete better than people expect. I won't be surprised. Concerning football, Louisville has always had kids that can throw and catch the football. At the HIGH SCHOOL level, skilled players lead to more success than lineman do, and Louisville has historically had a lot of them. Sorry, hogs.
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  #79  
Old 02-06-17, 03:45 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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At the HIGH SCHOOL level, skilled players lead to more success than lineman do
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  #80  
Old 02-06-17, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by coach_xyz&12345 View Post
opinions and debates aside, after the dust settles, louisville will end up joining the federal league. It's like when you were that kid who got into trouble at school back in the day heading to the principle's office, you know that paddling is coming, however unsure how much its going to hurt.
ouch
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  #81  
Old 02-06-17, 04:04 PM
Stark Born & Bred Stark Born & Bred is offline
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I have heard that this is far from a done deal and there are reservations on both sides. Interestingly enough, Little Leps is an issue/one of those reservations. The FLC has told them during informal talks that they will be required to play 8th grade football and Louisville, as one would expect, is reluctant to abandon its unique feeder system.
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  #82  
Old 02-06-17, 04:07 PM
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Why did the FED abandon a 2 tiered Fed back in the late eighties? What were the negatives?
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  #83  
Old 02-06-17, 04:25 PM
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Why did the FED abandon a 2 tiered Fed back in the late eighties? What were the negatives?
That was a mess, both years there was 4-way champions and I think 3 of them came out of the stronger division some how. It seemed like there was the old FED on one side and 4 new teams on the other plus you got the added pleasure of driving all the way to New Phily and Wooster once in a while.
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  #84  
Old 02-06-17, 05:15 PM
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Just saw in the preliminary enrollment figures thread that both Alliance and Marlington are bigger than Louisville.
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  #85  
Old 02-06-17, 05:18 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Why did the FED abandon a 2 tiered Fed back in the late eighties? What were the negatives?
Lake came into the league in 87, that year was just a one tier league. Then the 88 and 89 seasons were the only two years it was a two tier league. Louisville and Canton South left the league in 90 ...leaving New Philly, Timken and Wooster...they were then moved into a 9 team league till Timken left after the 94 season. The main reason I believe it went back to a one tier league is when Louisville and South left.
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  #86  
Old 02-06-17, 05:28 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by Ville-ified View Post
Just saw in the preliminary enrollment figures thread that both Alliance and Marlington are bigger than Louisville.
Louisville has 309 boys to Lake at 436 to McKinley at 925...GO at 722, Green at 486, Hoover at 590, Jackson at 754, Perry at 565......Washington at 496
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  #87  
Old 02-06-17, 09:03 PM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluestreakoffice View Post
Louisville has 309 boys to Lake at 436 to McKinley at 925...GO at 722, Green at 486, Hoover at 590, Jackson at 754, Perry at 565......Washington at 496
And this 'dream' league?

429 Wooster
339 Dover
309 Louisville
334 New Philadelphia
257 West Holmes
129 CCC
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  #88  
Old 02-06-17, 09:08 PM
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Why did the FED abandon a 2 tiered Fed back in the late eighties? What were the negatives?
Mostly the 2 tiered system.
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  #89  
Old 02-06-17, 09:27 PM
go_leps go_leps is offline
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Thanks go leps,...hate to say it, but 10 years from now, I'm not even sure we will recognize the game of football as we know it.
You are probably correct on that assumption.
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  #90  
Old 02-06-17, 09:51 PM
Bluestreakoffice Bluestreakoffice is offline
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
And this 'dream' league?

429 Wooster
339 Dover
309 Louisville
334 New Philadelphia
257 West Holmes
129 CCC
I just wonder about Central in a couple of years. St Thomas has 18 players committed to football right now. They have passing skills at Hall of Fame fitness on Monday and Weds and they have had nights where just 2 players showed up. Leagues and teams in this area may have to look at finding a way to work together
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