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  #1  
Old 01-16-17, 01:15 PM
Buck1974 Buck1974 is offline
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Is Football Talent in Ohio Declining?

The thread on Kentucky signing Ohio recruits peaked my interest in the declining number of Ohio highs school kids that sign with Ohio State. Is this trend evidence of the decline of Ohio high school football or is Ohio State missing out on in-state talent? I don't know the answer and I know there are a lot of things to look at, but I just looked at Ohio State recruits from 2002 to 2017 and it is clear Ohio State players are mostly from other states lately.

Here is how Ohio State recruits break down from 1994 through 2017:

Ohio Recruit/Out of State Recruit/Percentage from Ohio

Currently 2017: 5 of 19 26%
2016: 9 of 25 36%
2015: 12 of 27 44%
2014: 9 of 23 39%
2013: 10 of 24 42%
2012: 15 of 25 60%
2011: 14 of 23 61%
2010: 9 of 18 50%
2009: 14 of 25 56%
2008: 9 of 20 45%
2007: 10 of 15 67%
2006: 10 of 20 50%
2005: 11 of 18 61%
2004: 15 of 26 58%
2003: 13 of 15 87%
2002: 18 of 24 75%
2001: 10 of 17 59%
2000: 13 of 26 50%
1999: 17 of 24 71%
1998: 7 of 16 44%
1997: 12 of 22 55%
1996: 14 of 27 52%
1995: 10 of 19 53%
1994: 11 of 20 55%

It looks, at least somewhat, like the head coaches' philosophy matters in this as well.

Cooper recruited nationally and got grief for not recruiting more Ohio kids but Cooper did have some of the most talented college football teams in the nation in the 1990s, he just couldn't coach them up in big games.

Tressel also recruited nationally but focused on a smaller number of top players, and he locked down Ohio, preventing Michigan, Notre Dame, Michigan State and Penn State from stealing some good Ohio players.

Urban Meyer obviously heavily recruits nationally but is he missing out on good Ohio players or is there just less talent in Ohio now as compared to the past?
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  #2  
Old 01-16-17, 01:24 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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I don't think there's any doubt that Ohio high school football talent is declining...and that's just the eyeball test. The only question I have is whether Ohio talent is declining at a similar pace to other parts of the country.
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  #3  
Old 01-16-17, 01:37 PM
sportfan97 sportfan97 is offline
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Is Football Talent in Ohio Declining?

I don't think the talent is declining as much as the style of football being played has changed at the college level requiring different talent and skill sets than the type of players Ohio has produced in the past. Another thing to consider is the ability to scout and find talent at a national level today compared to the 90's and earlier. Any talented kid in the country is a mouse click away from being discovered.


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  #4  
Old 01-16-17, 01:44 PM
Sykotyk Sykotyk is offline
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Think of every state's talent like a bell curve. Before, territorial draw kept big talent from really moving about the country. But with internet, cell phones, etc kids are more likely to move about So a big name school like Ohio State has a much higher threshold on the bell curve. They'll draw top talent from multiple states, so there's fewer lesser talented kids that will make it from Ohio.
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Old 01-16-17, 02:01 PM
mailman112 mailman112 is offline
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No question. I've said it for 5 years. Just look at the D1 Champ games the last few years. Good teams not great teams. X and Ig's were hardly dominating teams and some would argue neither belonged in that game.
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  #6  
Old 01-16-17, 02:05 PM
Raider6309 Raider6309 is offline
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Has the number of D1 athletes changed since then? It's hard to gauge from one school
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  #7  
Old 01-16-17, 02:05 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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I don't think Ohio is declining versus the rest of the country. Those percentages are just a reflection of the coach at Ohio State. Plenty of talented players leaving the state as we welcome out-of-staters to the Buckeyes. Some of it may also be due to kids wanting to leave their own state for the experience.

Personally, I wish we kept more kids at home but I realize things have changed and that's not likely to happen as much anymore.
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  #8  
Old 01-16-17, 02:10 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykotyk View Post
Think of every state's talent like a bell curve. Before, territorial draw kept big talent from really moving about the country. But with internet, cell phones, etc kids are more likely to move about So a big name school like Ohio State has a much higher threshold on the bell curve. They'll draw top talent from multiple states, so there's fewer lesser talented kids that will make it from Ohio.
I agree, the Buckeye's get a draw from all over the country and that team may not be a good indicator for the strength of Ohio HS football.

Now if Mt Union starts dropping from the ranks of Division III, that may likely be a better indicator. How do the same figures appear for Mount in D3 or YSU in the FCS?
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  #9  
Old 01-16-17, 02:24 PM
Da Bad Guy Da Bad Guy is offline
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Ohio is not declining in athletic talent. We are just simply falling behind other states. We can not keep up with states that have spring ball. There was a time when Ohio was one of the top 4 football states. Last I heard (a few years ago) is we were 8th behind North Carolina. Add it all up, and coaches will be recruiting other states harder than Ohio thus less and less kids signing D1 letters of intent.
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  #10  
Old 01-16-17, 03:29 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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I don't have a real strong opinion on this , but I sense the "BAD GUY" has some kind of agenda here as he joins and starts this thread immediately .

Opinions vary , but I would like to know where he " HEARD" that Ohio is now eight in the pecking order . Anyway I don't buy North Carolina is better high school football state than Ohio is.

what is the source of the eight ranking? I am guessing Ohio is still top 6 talent wise but it is very well coached opposed to some other states that may have similar talent IMO
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  #11  
Old 01-16-17, 03:44 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Bad Guy View Post
Ohio is not declining in athletic talent. We are just simply falling behind other states. We can not keep up with states that have spring ball. There was a time when Ohio was one of the top 4 football states. Last I heard (a few years ago) is we were 8th behind North Carolina. Add it all up, and coaches will be recruiting other states harder than Ohio thus less and less kids signing D1 letters of intent.
I hate the whole idea of spring football, but I also want to ask this...

Which is it? I would ask a guy like Urban Meyer to stop talking out of both sides of his mouth. It just doesn't work practically to be in favor of kids playing other sports (which he is) and being in favor of spring football (he claims to be in favor of that as well).
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  #12  
Old 01-16-17, 04:01 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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No question that Spring football helps both teams programs coaches and players . Any time you get to spend more time working as a team with coaches evaluating and kids learning the system getting reps and skill development is a positive thing.

The teams that go further in the play-offs every year get a huge benefit with extra weeks of practice that builds the team more and gets kids more reps in the system and helps development , this is a key factor in helping the rich stay rich so to speak the traditional powers that advance more readily and go deeper get the reward of more practice and that helps the next year and years after.

So the negatives are kids feeling the need to specialize more, lacrosse / baseball players may be conflicted , track athletes are in a more natural you can do both type dynamic may be.

Not really in favor of it I suppose, but know the possible benefits and you may be able to do a more hybrid type spring practice as opposed to other states that have more comprehensive spring practice, but make no mistake it DOES HELP development of teams and individual players
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  #13  
Old 01-16-17, 04:08 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatAlum View Post
I hate the whole idea of spring football, but I also want to ask this...

Which is it? I would ask a guy like Urban Meyer to stop talking out of both sides of his mouth. It just doesn't work practically to be in favor of kids playing other sports (which he is) and being in favor of spring football (he claims to be in favor of that as well).
And it really doesn't make sense when you consider that college football recruiting is more about measurables than current ability. Every coach thinks they can take an athletic 280lb, 6'6" kid and turn him into a college lineman while a great HS lineman that is 6'1" just isn't "D1 material."

Spring football will never change those variables. At best, spring football makes the team better and gives the kids a chance to work on fundamentals at the HS level. Those are two areas that Ohio HS is still near the top compared to other states.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-17, 04:23 PM
EaglePride01 EaglePride01 is offline
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Modern recruiting rankings, if you buy into them, certainly reflect declining talent in the state of Ohio (blue-chip talent at least). Population shift, spring football, and the accelerated evaluation periods have all played a role in the decline (or perceived decline) of Ohio football talent. USAToday used to have a pretty cool interactive map that tracked where every NFL player drafted since 1988 came from. I think they quit updating it a few years back. There are several other studies you can find out there on the web which track FBS signees per year by state. Basically what they show is that Ohio has been replaced by Georgia in the top 4 along with the big three of Cali, Texas, and Florida. Ohio has held pretty steady at the 5 spot in terms of FBS signees and players drafted into the NFL, with slight variations year to year.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-17, 04:43 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Talent =/= product on the field.

If I have to choose between a 4-star LB from Louisiana or a 3-star from OH, then I'm picking the 3-star nine times out of ten. That kid will have experience playing in the cold and comes from a region very reputable for its fundamentals.
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  #16  
Old 01-16-17, 04:55 PM
Egret Egret is offline
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LOL. You are kidding right?
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  #17  
Old 01-16-17, 04:56 PM
College#19 College#19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
Talent =/= product on the field.

If I have to choose between a 4-star LB from Louisiana or a 3-star from OH, then I'm picking the 3-star nine times out of ten. That kid will have experience playing in the cold and comes from a region very reputable for its fundamentals.
The numbers don't support your opinion. I am pretty sure the state of Louisiana has the highest per capital rate of NFL players based on the total number of high school kids playing football in Louisiana. I am taking the 4 star from Louisiana all day long because he has the one thing the kid from Ohio won't have, SPEED. You can't teach SPEED, it is god given.
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  #18  
Old 01-16-17, 05:00 PM
Buck1974 Buck1974 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaglePride01 View Post
Modern recruiting rankings, if you buy into them, certainly reflect declining talent in the state of Ohio (blue-chip talent at least). Population shift, spring football, and the accelerated evaluation periods have all played a role in the decline (or perceived decline) of Ohio football talent. USAToday used to have a pretty cool interactive map that tracked where every NFL player drafted since 1988 came from. I think they quit updating it a few years back. There are several other studies you can find out there on the web which track FBS signees per year by state. Basically what they show is that Ohio has been replaced by Georgia in the top 4 along with the big three of Cali, Texas, and Florida. Ohio has held pretty steady at the 5 spot in terms of FBS signees and players drafted into the NFL, with slight variations year to year.
Correct, Ohio remains 5th, Georgia is a 4th in both NFL players and FBS commits.

NFL Players by state as of 2015 were:

1. Florida 204
2. California 203
3. Texas 181
4. Georgia 114
5. Ohio 78
6. Alabama 63
7. Louisiana 58
8. North Carolina 55
9. Pennsylvania 55
10. New Jersey 52
11. Michigan 49
12. South Carolina 47
13. Virginia 46
14. Maryland 35

When you look at per capita numbers (NFL Players per 100,000) it changes:

1. Louisiana 1.36
2. Hawaii .93
3. South Carolina .88
4. Alabama .87
5. Nebraska .86
6. Florida .85
7. Mississippi .84
8. Georgia .76
9. Ohio, Montana, Colorado .69
11. Texas .67
12. New Jersey .63

I knew Louisiana was first by far on the per capita basis, but Hawaii, Nebraska and Montana surprised me.
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  #19  
Old 01-16-17, 05:00 PM
College#19 College#19 is offline
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Urban Meyer has definitely changed the roster make up of Ohio State. He is doing a lot more national recruiting than any other OSU coach. A kid like Benny Snell would of been at Ohio State under Tressel. Bowden for sure would of been at OSU under Tressel, Cooper, or Hayes. This is also why you have 30+ Ohio kids at Kentucky because several of these kids would of previously been at Ohio State.

I don't have any issues with what Urban Meyer is doing. He gets paid a lot of money and the expectations are for him to win. He knows he needs to recruit on a national basis to beat schools like Alabama, Clemson, USC, Oklahoma, and FSU in the college playoffs. He also knows he needs to go South to get some of that Speed, especially at the DL positions.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:00 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
If I have to choose between a 4-star LB from Louisiana or a 3-star from OH, then I'm picking the 3-star nine times out of ten. That kid will have experience playing in the cold and comes from a region very reputable for its fundamentals.
Does climate really matter? Of Ohio State's 12 regular season games in 2016, only 1 started with a temperature below 40 degrees (Michigan State). The average temperature at game time for all 12 games was 60 degrees. There were just as many games (3) with temperatures above 70 as below 50. It's actually some what of a myth that B1G games are played on frozen fields amid blizzard-like conditions.
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  #21  
Old 01-16-17, 05:01 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Does "speed" do much for the defenses of Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU? Asking for a friend.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:02 PM
College#19 College#19 is offline
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Buck1974 -- thank you for posting that.

Nick Saban is on record for stating recruiting at LSU was much easier than Alabama. If he could sign the top kids in Louisiana every season he would built a national championship team. And that is exactly what he did.

In my opinion the LSU job is the best college job in the country. You are the only Power 5 school in the state and you can load up on kids from East Texas and Mississippi as well.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:05 PM
College#19 College#19 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dock View Post
Does "speed" do much for the defenses of Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU? Asking for a friend.
Ask Urban Meyer what Clemson's speed did to his roster? Clemson speed on defense shut down the Buckeyes.

Speed alone won't get it all done, but when you have speed in a 6'4" 270 pound frame Speed is going to be the trump card.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:12 PM
CatAlum CatAlum is offline
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If you think football has some pre-eminent place in our culture, then, by all means, push year 'round football.

If you want to be an adult, if you think that your children should be engaged in a variety of things as they mature, then you should fight these concepts with everything you have.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:19 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by College#19 View Post
Ask Urban Meyer what Clemson's speed did to his roster? Clemson speed on defense shut down the Buckeyes.

Speed alone won't get it all done, but when you have speed in a 6'4" 270 pound frame Speed is going to be the trump card.
More so had to do with an ineffective offense on all dimensions.

Speed is overrated for the first two levels of defense. It's a nice, added bonus in a player. It doesn't supersede fundamentals and game smarts. It doesn't matter if your DE runs a 4.5 - if he doesn't play with the motor and know-how that Joey Bosa does, then forget about it.
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Old 01-16-17, 05:19 PM
Da Bad Guy Da Bad Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
I don't have a real strong opinion on this , but I sense the "BAD GUY" has some kind of agenda here as he joins and starts this thread immediately .

Opinions vary , but I would like to know where he " HEARD" that Ohio is now eight in the pecking order . Anyway I don't buy North Carolina is better high school football state than Ohio is.

what is the source of the eight ranking? I am guessing Ohio is still top 6 talent wise but it is very well coached opposed to some other states that may have similar talent IMO
I'm sorry, what thread did I start?
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Old 01-16-17, 05:53 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by College#19 View Post
Urban Meyer has definitely changed the roster make up of Ohio State. He is doing a lot more national recruiting than any other OSU coach. A kid like Benny Snell would of been at Ohio State under Tressel. Bowden for sure would of been at OSU under Tressel, Cooper, or Hayes. This is also why you have 30+ Ohio kids at Kentucky because several of these kids would of previously been at Ohio State.

I don't have any issues with what Urban Meyer is doing. He gets paid a lot of money and the expectations are for him to win. He knows he needs to recruit on a national basis to beat schools like Alabama, Clemson, USC, Oklahoma, and FSU in the college playoffs. He also knows he needs to go South to get some of that Speed, especially at the DL positions.
Recruiting Nationally is a trend across the board as technology becomes more involved. Meyer also has the added benefit of being a top coach with Tina of connections in most regions. With the technology tools available it is easier for coaches and prospects to connect without a personal visit- that wasn't happening even 5 years ago!
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Old 01-16-17, 05:57 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Sorry , I misread the post , welcome aboard , I am curious where you saw Ohio is now 8th ranked in terms of high school football pecking order
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  #29  
Old 01-16-17, 06:08 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Here's the 2016 list from Cleveland.com:

Top 10:
1 Florida 193
2 California 187
3 Texas 160
4 Georgia 97
5 Ohio 80
6 Pennsylvania 66
7 Louisiana 63
8 Alabama 60
9 New Jersey 50
10 South Carolina 48

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral..._the_most.html
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Old 01-16-17, 06:46 PM
Da Bad Guy Da Bad Guy is offline
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Honestly man I can't remember. I'm not making it up but it was a few years ago. No doubt Ohio is better than N.C. I did not agree with it at all. But we are not where we used to be one way or the other. And I'm certainly not trying to start a spring ball debate. It's an advantage for states that have it. No arguing that. Thank you for the welcome Harry. Have been reading posts here for years. Thought I would finally join.
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