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  #91  
Old 04-14-17, 09:09 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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OK chief , lets show how weak Coffman purposely scheduled this past year .

Springfield - multiple D-1 kids not a great team but a PLAY-OFF TEAM.

Scioto - OT A GREAT TEAM DISTRCIT RIVAL MADE PLAY-OFFS Rocks crushed them BAD and Irish hammered Massillon in the play-offs

Fairfield - multiple d-1 players play-off team

Olentangy - play-off team great coach

Gahanna - playoff team the previous year , just missed this year lost multipole close games

League games , Davidson nuff said and UA beat Pick Central in regular season

What I mean by practical those same teams show up again THIS YEAR sans Springfield whos is replaced by largest enrollment D-2 school Perrysburg who has had success overall the last few years playing them on the road { 2.5 HOURS away} and making the play-offs is a goal , practical . DeSales doesn't have that problem playing in D-3 with a loaded roster playing smaller schools .
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  #92  
Old 04-15-17, 02:19 PM
TCSoup TCSoup is offline
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Rico has some good points , DeSales Schedule has been light compared to years gone by.

But they still schedule at least 1 or 2 D1 OCC teams every year. They had d2 Playoff team Edgewood last year D4 State Champ Hartley last year and that team from Canada who
had 95 % of its players from the US on it . Plus they were mostly made up of 5th year Seniors. meaning they were allowed to play a 5th year of HS ball by Canadian rules as long as they hadn't turned 20 . 19 is the cutoff age.
DC OCC Schedule is set up to make the Playoffs . No shame in that.
but you can't defend it as one set up to challenge the HHW , Moellers or Iggy's of the world.
DeSales has been guilty of that also the last few years.
That's why you see Mooney and Winton Woods back on it this year.
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  #93  
Old 04-15-17, 02:56 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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2015 OCC Central had 5 play-off teams within the league. Last year Coffman played 5 play-off teams and two who were play-off quality teams , UA beat Pick Central earlier on and Gahanna was very competitive with play-off teams , lost some really tough close games .

Olentangy was a playoff team but fairly young and Coffman hammered them . This year it will be a really competitive close game against them IMO. They didn't schedule those teams { Gahanna , Olentangy} they were assigned to play them like everyone else is no in the new OCC.

They started with Springfield and then Scioto who both made the play-offs and Scioto won a game{ Massillon} . Fairfield was third a pay-off team both years Coffman played them { Split the two game series} . And of course the rest of the teasm are league foes can't choose to play them or not play them .

So this notion that they schedule WEAK is simply not true . So they should play Wayne , lose and may be not make the play-offs after playing the aforementioned quality schedule , when the fact is they play Wayne every year in the play-offs anyway? How does that make sense ?

This year the schedule includes a more than not play-off team at least recently Gahanna with a excellent QB and one of the top couple receivers in the the region in Columbus Academy transfer Bruckner. Olentangy an perennial play-off team with a ton of starters back .

Perrysburg replaces Springfield and has bene a very solid program overall the last 5 or so years , who is D-2 but is about 8 students away from being D-1 { Second largest D-2 team in the state} and that game is one the road { 2.5 hours away } .

Scioto is a rivalry game in week two , should win that one . UA I hear has some transfers and has a solid couple classes . Davidson isn't as good as they used to be overall but it is still a game that can go either way . So I think while the Canada game suks and won't help them prepare whatsoever for the top programs certainly , it isn't as if they didn't try to schedule a better opponent , a few solid programs said no thanks { Lancaster I believe was one?} Scrumper can help me out on that one may be ?

But with the schedule as it is , not saying it is incredibly trying but some real tough road games { Davidson , Perrysburg ??, Olentangy with revenge and a ton of kids back , UA always a dog fight has talent and they consider Coffman their biggest rival , not playing Wayne in week three I feel was the right decision, seeing as though they have played them so frequently in the play-offs.

Certainly ,and I am not bashing them because sometimes teams aren't as strong as you thought when you did schedule the game , DeSales had given their talent level last year an easier schedule than Coffman did .

I realize most out here responding are anti Coffman , but their schedules the last few years have not been weak overall , Liberty's wasn't that tough last year, props for going to PA , but that team wasn't great , Glenville? MEH . They do step up and play Wayne and should be commended for it, and PC has had some good schedules { but have played some weaker teams as well } but Coffman playing Springfield , Fairfield and keeping the game with Scioto the last two years isn't a weak choice.

So their schedule is set up to make the play-offs? ARE YOU SAYING THE central is really weak ? HMM not in 2015 it certainly wasn't and it wasn't last year, UA didn'[t make the play-offs despite beating Pick Central couldn't have bene that weak and they had no choice but to play Gahanna and Olentangy in home and home's , both not bad programs certainly , play-offs more than not .
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  #94  
Old 04-15-17, 04:33 PM
Scrumper Scrumper is offline
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There were many teams that turned us away from a home and home series. Probably for many of the same reasons we don't want to see Wayne or pick central during the season.

But the truth of it is would you rather play an elite program with a high probability of a loss and no playoffs, or take on a probable win with more Harbins, get a better draw in the playoffs, win one, and play week12? Ask any of the boys on the team, easy choice. I now there are no guarantees, but I would rather see my boy play in a few more games. And who knows, the ball may bounce our way this year. Also, as a dad of one of those players where this may be the last year he plays, I want to see him in as many games as possible.

Call me a homer, but this year could be a special year for the kids to remember for the rest of there lives. If the stars align, we move to R2, go into the playoffs undefeated or one loss, get the ball to bounce our way, the boys may get a game in the shoe. I know it's a long shot, but we fans can always hope right?
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  #95  
Old 04-15-17, 05:44 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Going to r-2 would be a nice change and interesting. O-liberty is an emerging force , have bene really solid and getting better , Coffman is a perfect 8-0 against them though .

NO fear there of course , but Liberty is now clearly a bigger school than Coffman as it has really grown, so their numbers are impressive as well as their talent . Hale is an underrated coach , his staff is solid as well .

Fans should dare to dream of their team playing to and achieving their full potential , and Scrump is spot on with his thoughts here.

Coffman lost two regular season games by a total of three points last year. Laid an egg vs. Davidson in game one before controlling the action in a comfortable win in the play-off rematch , Springfield got revenge for a good beatdown in 2015 winning a game over two days at home with the Rocks losing a really tough two point decision .

I agree if going to R-2 and things break right it could be a very memorable season . And I have a hunch that Scrumps' boy will be playing a few games after his high school career ends , as my old position coach in HS originally from Texas might say " That boy is strong as snot "
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  #96  
Old 04-25-17, 07:29 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Three months and a few pennies of change to go until two a days's. What do coaches say to players in the hallways at this point? What did you do to get better today?

A good sign in my opinion is the increased participation in track from the football players. Back in the earlier 2000's through the later 2000's we saw a decent participation rate in track from some football players. This seemed to fall off gradually over the years but it seems to have risen now and that is a good thing.

I have seen a few guys increase their speed and of course most are lifting pretty hard as well at this point, increased speed and flexibility is a big key to increased performance. .

We don't see much of any crossover with basketball players on the gridiron anymore, and even some kids who are baseball and lacrosse players aren't coming out in the same numbers . My thought mirrors Kilbourne coach Vince Trombetti's take on this . Now there are a few exceptions , but " MOST" of these guys who eschew football to more " Concentrate " on these other sports " Aren't as good as they think they are in those sports" One of my all time favorite quotes . Spot on and kids forget or don't realize that they get better as ATHLETES , { Stronger , faster, tougher, more confident} when they play football .

When people analyze a programs potential , a lot of people point first to potential D-1 kids, especially at the larger schools , but I think what gets lost is a programs number of kids who are just interested in continuing in college, dedicated kids who know they aren't D-1 , but work hard and with a purpose looking towards playing college football, whatever that level may ultimately be .

Davidson obviously comes to mind , as they have had soe D-1 caliber kids but they have importantly had a nice handful of kids who push to play at lower levels because they love the game.

Football isn't for everyone , some play but don't love it , but I think the number of kids you have who do relish the contact and love to compete is a huge factor in how good you will ultimately be .

If you look at Coffman's best teams over the last 15 years they had a nice collection of kids who were competitive and some who played with that edge , worked hard at it and pushed themselves . Of course this is true with most programs, but I think may be this years edition just may have a nice collection of these kids who may not be d-1 but are dedicated tough smart players who will play somewhere and have that desire to do the little things and extra's to get there . Even at the highest levels of football namely the New England Patriots have always put a huge emphasis on finding players who simply LOVE THE GAME , who have bene proven to love the process of getting better, who will sacrifice, they readily cross off talented players with measureables who don't have that grind mentality or the love of the sport.

Speaking of D-1 kids and the aforementioned dynamic , How hasn't Griffin Hoak gotten at least a MAC offer or two at this point? He is one of those " FOOTBALL " guys , works hard at the process loves the game , is instinctual and tough ?

No disrespect to other Ohio LB'S like Liberty's Ed Warriner , Colerain's Dan Bolden , and Ty Van Fossen of DeSales who all have multiple offers Warriner from power 5 Michigan State} and they deserve such offers and I am not saying that they shouldn't be rated higher than Griffin in these recruiting lists , BUT if they are getting UC MSU among other offers , how is Hoak not getting MAC love ?

Yes , Griffin's foot speed isn't equal to some of these handful of guys rated higher and receiving offers , and I know a lot of this is potential based, not necessarily based on the actual production that is seen at the high school level but I am puzzled here.

So much of LB paly is instinct, first movements after snap , toughness taking on blocks, and tackling fundamentals , it's check , check check with this player.

I Realize that a lot of LB play with forms of the spread offense has changed and programs look for faster kids who they think can cover in space better, but you can overlook guys like Hoak , who have that IT factor as football players, program guys who will provide leadership work ethic , who love the process , who will work hard to improve , have that attitude that makes a program better just being in it .

Obviously there is tie for him to get these offers I think he deserves and is qualified for, but at this point it is CLEAR , programs are missing out here.
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  #97  
Old 04-25-17, 07:50 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Stiv, IMO, your question contained its own answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrycrane View Post
______'s foot speed isn't equal to some of these handful of guys rated higher and receiving offers
If there is any 'qualifier' language needed with regard to speed, that is normally the reason. The game is faster than ever before. A few years back, a wise coach told me, yesterday's NFL guys are today's "Big 10" guys and yesterday's Big 10 guys are today's MAC guys and yesterday's MAC guys are today's Ohio Dominican/Ashland/Findley guys.

In other words, for guys from our generation, our frame of reference needs to change. When we think of a kid and say, "He may not be Big 10 caliber but certainly he could play in the MAC", we need to remove the word "MAC" and insert a GLIAC school.

Of course there are individual exceptions to that where you see some kids who leap frog over others despite not having much of a resume or having hit the typical height/frame/speed lottery (the Shelton kid from Westerville North getting picked up by Penn State a few years back being an example). But for the most part you have to trust that the recruiters know what they're doing, because they see a lot of kids and their jobs ride on it.
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  #98  
Old 04-25-17, 08:24 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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get that some players are a couple inches short , a bit slow or stiff, to get multiple offers, my point of reference is with players I have seen play, Boatang at Coffman WHO has multiple offers is someone I didn't mention because he is an outside LB , another one at Inside LB is Asamoah at DeSales who I think is a good prospect who Kentucky is looking hard at Who I have seen play and has good speed at about 205-210 pounds .

My frame of reference is now, while Griffin doesn't have ideal HT and speed , he doesn't PLAY SLOW, he isn't markedly slower than these guys in other words , he isn't markedly smaller either and in some cases stronger and bigger than some.

So it merely puzzles me at this point that he doesn't , but my guess and I would bet on it that once the MAC schools who like most schools AIM ABOVE their league for recruits don't get the big -10 CRUMBS they wanted, spots will open up and he will get an offer at the D-1 level .


My Patriots reference was made to point out that they get those IT FOOTBAL guys wh are on the smaller side may be { Danny Woodhead was very productive} Tedy Brushi ? Did scouts drool over Rob Minkovitch's measureable,s ? Mike Vrabel couldn't play in Pittsburgh ,probably was a step slow and his hips were a bit stiff may be ? Kind of an integral part of the program as they calL it in NE?

If he was actually SLOW , wouldn't have mentioned it. he isn't slow, , he isn't too small and he is tough and productive, a better football player than some of these guys who have more fluid hips and a bit quicker in the 40 , but don't have the toughness instinct and attitude which schools find out every year .

You need the jaguars , the speed demons and the guys who look a bit better in the uniform to take chances on , some hit some bust, with a kid like this the BUST potential is minimal even if say at the MAC level he never becomes a full time starter , he wil be more of an asset than some players who project higher or have a higher ceiling .

If you only recruit by numbers and where you think their ceiling is , you miss out and will be lacking in some key elements of football is my point.

And to repeat, this isn't a case of a 5-9 and a half 200 pound weight room warrior type with heavy legs , high school tackling machine NOT getting love based on stats and production , I GET LIMITATIONS, bu with this player I don't see massive limitations , although I do know recruiting is based on sheer POTENTIAL and growth potential , and that makes solid even superior players to these potential kids fall through some cracks .

I think it wil work itself out and a program or two at the D-1 level will offer the solid,steady smart tough player but it may not come until the more flashy UPSIDE POTENTIAL KIDS choose to go elsewhere.
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  #99  
Old 04-25-17, 08:42 AM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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Looking back , I think a comparable is Brett Buehler, who was a very productive HS player who played at Cornell . He was just off the radar of the MAC and other D-1 programs . His scouting report back then mentioned needs improvement in change of direction and agility but the positives mentioned mirror Hoak's attributes . Worked out well as a top student football isn'[t always the top priority can't go wrong with the Ivy league and the level of player at that level is increasing .

I do think players have to be mindful of this when being evaluated, some of this flexibility and smooth hips and overall fluidity is god given to an extent{ Mike Drennan for instance} but you can improve on it and the lack of this can result in a lack of interest in bigger programs.

Griffin first instincts and playing speed is good and his tape shows that , keep working on the speed and agility and show well in the last round of " Tryouts" and I think he gets an offer, if not 1-AA of walk on MAC ? Hope it doesn't come to that for him and I don't think it will.

Happy for Boatang who is getting interest from many places, including Kentucky recently .

Hopefully other players will get some attention soon from schools they are interested in . Heard really good things coming from spring practice at Kentucky , Wisconsin and Penn State concerning former Coffman players Hoak , Gelerstadt and Grady , have some thoughts on that a bit later
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  #100  
Old 04-25-17, 10:38 AM
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FormerWildcat FormerWildcat is offline
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Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
But for the most part you have to trust that the recruiters know what they're doing, because they see a lot of kids and their jobs ride on it.
I agree. I generally believe that the "recruiting market" is pretty efficient. There's way too much money riding on all of these decisions at both the university and the individual level for it not to be, at least in DI.

Do the recruiters get it wrong occasionally? Sure, and stock brokers make bad investment decisions sometimes as well. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

However, I believe they're getting it relatively "right" much more often than not. Otherwise, they'll be out of a job.
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  #101  
Old 04-25-17, 11:10 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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I agree. I generally believe that the "recruiting market" is pretty efficient. .
^^ This.

And like most 'efficient markets', there is nothing preventing it from being self-correcting. They read wrong and grab a kid they shouldn't, he'll flame out, like big lineman from Glenville that OSU took a few year's back (name escapes me but he was not even good in HS, just big).

On the flip side, if they all miss a kid with P5 talent who slips to IAA or DII, that kid should excel and stand out and be able to transfer up, right?

This latter scenario is extremely, extremely rare in my opinion. I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of many. That alone tells me that the recruiters get it right most of the time, and when they miss it is taking kids they shouldn't, not passing on kids they should have taken. I think this is further evidenced by the fact that you see a lot more transfers down than transfers up.
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  #102  
Old 04-25-17, 11:25 AM
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And like most 'efficient markets', there is nothing preventing it from being self-correcting. They read wrong and grab a kid they shouldn't, he'll flame out, like big lineman from Glenville that OSU took a few year's back (name escapes me but he was not even good in HS, just big).

On the flip side, if they all miss a kid with P5 talent who slips to IAA or DII, that kid should excel and stand out and be able to transfer up, right?

This latter scenario is extremely, extremely rare in my opinion. I'm sure there are examples, but I can't think of many. That alone tells me that the recruiters get it right most of the time, and when they miss it is taking kids they shouldn't, not passing on kids they should have taken. I think this is further evidenced by the fact that you see a lot more transfers down than transfers up.
Those are very good points, and I really hadn't thought about looking at the transfer data to see how often the "misses" are happening, especially the "up transfers."

You see the "down transfers" with some regularity, but that's bound to happen with 85 scholarships and only 22 starting positions. Many kids who are superstars in high school just aren't going to suck it up to be a backup any more. We live in too much of a "I want things now" culture for that to happen.

The only major "up transfer" I can think of is in basketball when the kid from Williams or Amherst transferred to Michigan. Of course, the transfers in basketball are out of control these days, and there seems to be no loyalty at all on anyone's part (players/coaches/schools) in basketball in general. So, even that might be a bad example.
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  #103  
Old 04-25-17, 12:11 PM
Harrycrane Harrycrane is offline
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To what degree they get it " RIGHT" I am not sure , but I guarantee if you watch Thursday's NFL draft TWO of the top 10 picks will not have a significant NFL imprint , there WILL BE A Vernon Gholston or a QB bust. In other words it is an inexact science, there are tings that can't be accurately measured .

I agree there are more transfers DOWN in order to play than kids wanting to try to play at a higher level , which is why you see walk on's starting from time to time at even MAJOR talent factory schools .

It is very hard to gauge who will work hard enough to succeed at the next level of comp coming out of high school , and or who will start partying too much or not studying, , although level of High school and your transcript can offer clues obviously.

5 Star guys sometimes NEVER start , and three star or less guys make the NFL, happens all the time, undrafted free agents start on EVERY NFL team , and these guys are professional talent evaluators, many draft picks NEVER make a team .

Fine line between who gets offers and who doesn't , blurry, not much difference, and also you can't ignore the momentum dynamic, once a kid gets that first offer what often happens is OTHERS thin hmmm if they offered shouldn't we? Same thing can happen if you are offerless if you will , it becomes contagious sometimes.

Pro leagues are copycat leagues, college recruiting can be as well
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