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  #1  
Old 04-13-17, 09:05 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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7th and 8th grade soccer

I admit that i am mostly from the world of football, so bear with me.

Why isn't 7th and 8th grade soccer a thing?

In our area it definitely isn't. We have the YAYSL which is a local i guess what you'd call Super-Rec league with community based teams that runs in the fall for kids up through the U15 level.

Maybe it exists in other areas?

Maybe it used to be a thing but the emergence of clubs has killed it?

Anyone have some background on it? Thoughts? Ideas?
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  #2  
Old 04-13-17, 10:14 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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I don't know of any schools in the Dayton area that have middle school teams either. Everyone plays club or rec.
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  #3  
Old 04-13-17, 12:11 PM
Philos_Finest Philos_Finest is offline
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In the Muskingum County/Zanesville area there are "school based club teams" for middle school.
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  #4  
Old 04-13-17, 02:27 PM
Upper 90 Upper 90 is offline
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I am pretty sure there are some Catholic schools in the SW part of the state that still offer it. John XXIII in Middletown offers 4-8, as does St Francis in Lebanon. I think it is like or is CYO based.
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  #5  
Old 04-13-17, 04:58 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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^^^Most of the Dayton-area Catholic grade schools have CYO teams, generally one team for each grade ... all the way down to the 4th or 5th grade.
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  #6  
Old 04-14-17, 08:17 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
^^^Most of the Dayton-area Catholic grade schools have CYO teams, generally one team for each grade ... all the way down to the 4th or 5th grade.
But aren't the serious players playing club instead? I know my son has had kids that ended up at Alter & Carroll on his club team over the years. CYO is basically rec isn't?
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  #7  
Old 04-14-17, 02:49 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
But aren't the serious players playing club instead? I know my son has had kids that ended up at Alter & Carroll on his club team over the years. CYO is basically rec isn't?
Around here there are many kids that do both. I don't think there's a rule against it. Isn't the 'either club or school' rule just for high school?

Follow up question then: As I said around here every fall there is a league of community based teams that aren't necessarily school teams but are certainly attached to certain communities. This league mirrors the high school season as it runs from late August up til about Halloween when it has a year end tournament. Many club kids play for these groups as well on weekends they don't have events. It gives a way for communities to start assembling these kids before the HS levels.

Do other areas of the state have THESE leagues at those ages or do kids just do club in the fall?
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  #8  
Old 04-14-17, 04:20 PM
BlackHawk BlackHawk is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
But aren't the serious players playing club instead? I know my son has had kids that ended up at Alter & Carroll on his club team over the years. CYO is basically rec isn't?
Maybe they can play both club and CYO in grade school, like EastYoungstown stated....IDK for sure. I do know a couple of my son's Bishop Leibold CYO teammates played varsity at Alter recently. Yes, CYO is probably comparable to rec...nobody got cut and everybody played at Leibold...a mix of some really good players and some not-so-good players..
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  #9  
Old 04-14-17, 08:25 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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I'm in Cincinnati and don't know of any schools that have junior high soccer. In my opinion the problem comes with the large difference between the level of both training and competition you get between club and school soccer. There are some quality school programs and some not so great clubs, but in general school soccer tends to be lacking largely in both of those areas. This is what leads families to steer their kids towards club over school soccer in most cases. High school still has the appeal of playing for your friends and community, which is why club soccer hasn't completely killed high school soccer. That appeal just isn't as strong for junior high, which is why school soccer has all but disappeared at that age from most areas.

Now there are many clubs that cater more towards just specific communities, and end up with teams made up of kids that go to school together. Essentially creating the potential junior high teams. These teams tend to not be able to compete at the highest levels, but with club soccer being so large there is plenty of levels in local leagues to fit those team's competitive levels. So they have plenty of equal competition to play against.

Just my opinion on the junior high soccer situation from what I've seen.
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  #10  
Old 04-14-17, 09:01 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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If your junior high sponsors soccer in an OHSAA context, they cannot participate in club or travel soccer competitions during the school season.

That is why many schools do not sponsor junior high soccer, as there seems to be a sufficient infastructure in place for the community's potential high school soccer players to participate without the school team. Sometimes that is not the case, and the school team serves as that bridge before high school soccer.
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  #11  
Old 04-16-17, 08:35 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Coached in Kansas, Ohio, and Kentucky...Kentucky and Kansas, in certain areas, have high participation of middle school soccer. In Kansas, one school had 65 kids come out for their team. In Kentucky, the school I worked for had an A team and a B team with roughly 38 kids involved total.

I like the opportunity of middle school teams since club is so expensive.
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  #12  
Old 04-16-17, 01:24 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Coached in Kansas, Ohio, and Kentucky...Kentucky and Kansas, in certain areas, have high participation of middle school soccer. In Kansas, one school had 65 kids come out for their team. In Kentucky, the school I worked for had an A team and a B team with roughly 38 kids involved total.

I like the opportunity of middle school teams since club is so expensive.
For the record, I grew up in the Philly area. We had 7th and 8th grade soccer. We had A and B boys teams and also had girls teams. I never played soccer until 7th grade and only played because of friend of mine asked me to play with him. I went on to play in high school. If we didn't have middle school soccer and club was the only option I would have never played the game.

I'm all for junior high soccer. As stated, it is an extremely cheaper option over club. It gives kids like myself a chance to experience the game when they otherwise wouldn't. But for many places in Ohio you're in a situation where entire metropolitan areas have given up on junior high soccer. I'm not sure if it's possible to go back once you've reached that point.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-17, 06:32 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Certain school systems and/or metro areas have given up on JH soccer because they have other infrastructure(s) in place to feed players for the high school team.

Those school systems/metro areas where JH soccer exists, it exists for the exact reason cited above: gives kids the chance to experience the game in a cost-effective setting that they may otherwise not had. For some schools/programs, it serves as a critical way of getting players for high school.
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  #14  
Old 04-16-17, 08:42 PM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHawk View Post
Maybe they can play both club and CYO in grade school, like EastYoungstown stated....IDK for sure. I do know a couple of my son's Bishop Leibold CYO teammates played varsity at Alter recently. Yes, CYO is probably comparable to rec...nobody got cut and everybody played at Leibold...a mix of some really good players and some not-so-good players..
Never had a kid involved with CYO so don't know if they play both or not. I suppose they could. I doubt there is anything stopping them except schedule conflicts.
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  #15  
Old 04-17-17, 02:18 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Certain school systems and/or metro areas have given up on JH soccer because they have other infrastructure(s) in place to feed players for the high school team.

Those school systems/metro areas where JH soccer exists, it exists for the exact reason cited above: gives kids the chance to experience the game in a cost-effective setting that they may otherwise not had. For some schools/programs, it serves as a critical way of getting players for high school.
Interesting that the schools have 'given up' 7th and grade soccer to the clubs, but then enforce many different rules on those same kids if they wish to play high school soccer
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  #16  
Old 04-17-17, 06:27 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Interesting that the schools have 'given up' 7th and grade soccer to the clubs, but then enforce many different rules on those same kids if they wish to play high school soccer
Since 7th and 8th grade is also governed by OHSAA the same rules would be enforced on those kids if they played for their school in junior high.
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  #17  
Old 04-17-17, 06:49 PM
Kballer Kballer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Since 7th and 8th grade is also governed by OHSAA the same rules would be enforced on those kids if they played for their school in junior high.
CYO is not under OHSAA governance
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  #18  
Old 04-17-17, 07:28 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Schools may choose not to have 7th and 8th grade teams because they know they cannot get kids to play on those teams given the OHSAA parameters (namely they also can't play on their club in the fall season).

Come high school, the OHSAA rule is they have to make a choice in the fall season between school and club (that's the case in all OHSAA sponsored sports). In this day and age, there is also pressure from the club/academy side of things not to play high school.

Correctly stated is that CYO is not under the OHSAA purview.
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  #19  
Old 04-17-17, 07:44 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
CYO is not under OHSAA governance
Wasn't really saying it was.
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  #20  
Old 04-17-17, 07:54 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Since 7th and 8th grade is also governed by OHSAA the same rules would be enforced on those kids if they played for their school in junior high.
but 7th and 8th grade soccer doesn't exist
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  #21  
Old 04-17-17, 08:02 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
Schools may choose not to have 7th and 8th grade teams because they know they cannot get kids to play on those teams given the OHSAA parameters (namely they also can't play on their club in the fall season).

Come high school, the OHSAA rule is they have to make a choice in the fall season between school and club (that's the case in all OHSAA sponsored sports). In this day and age, there is also pressure from the club/academy side of things not to play high school.

Correctly stated is that CYO is not under the OHSAA purview.
This is more what I was getting at with the rules come high school.
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  #22  
Old 04-18-17, 07:36 AM
Philos_Finest Philos_Finest is offline
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In most urban area's not having a middle school team is probably not a big deal as most of the players that would play, are probably on a club team. Where, in more rural areas like Muskingum County, not having an "official" middle school team is a detriment to the High School Programs as would be players end up on the football teams or elsewhere.
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  #23  
Old 04-18-17, 10:50 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philos_Finest View Post
In most urban area's not having a middle school team is probably not a big deal as most of the players that would play, are probably on a club team. Where, in more rural areas like Muskingum County, not having an "official" middle school team is a detriment to the High School Programs as would be players end up on the football teams or elsewhere.
This is exactly it.

One other positive in Kentucky and Kansas for their middle school programs, they've moved it to the spring. Huge benefit, in my opinion, for many of these middle schoolers playing spring soccer and transitioning through the summer with HS and into the fall. Opportunity for tremendous growth of a player in several months of playing/training together.
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  #24  
Old 04-19-17, 04:08 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
This is exactly it.

One other positive in Kentucky and Kansas for their middle school programs, they've moved it to the spring. Huge benefit, in my opinion, for many of these middle schoolers playing spring soccer and transitioning through the summer with HS and into the fall. Opportunity for tremendous growth of a player in several months of playing/training together.
Isn't spring the peak of club season though? I would think that would make things difficult
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  #25  
Old 04-20-17, 09:49 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Isn't spring the peak of club season though? I would think that would make things difficult
It is the only club season for the high school aged kids even though some start up in November as soon as HS ends.

If I had the choice between my kids playing club in the spring or for their middle school, I would pick club all the time. Better competition, better skilled teammates, and most likely better coaches.
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  #26  
Old 04-20-17, 07:37 PM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastYoungstown View Post
Isn't spring the peak of club season though? I would think that would make things difficult
For some it is an issue. Some places allow to play middle school and club at the same time.

This is also the case for some states with high school soccer, Oklahoma (for example) allows high school players to play club during the same season as high school.
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  #27  
Old 04-20-17, 10:32 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
For some it is an issue. Some places allow to play middle school and club at the same time.

This is also the case for some states with high school soccer, Oklahoma (for example) allows high school players to play club during the same season as high school.
Three problems I see in that scenario is 1) conflict of training and coaching philosophies, 2) conflicts of practices and games (ultimately someone is going to want priority), and 3) do you really need to be playing that much soccer all at the same time?
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Old 04-21-17, 08:31 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
For some it is an issue. Some places allow to play middle school and club at the same time.

This is also the case for some states with high school soccer, Oklahoma (for example) allows high school players to play club during the same season as high school.
Well Ohio doesn't.

Is Oklahoma soccer any good?
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  #29  
Old 04-21-17, 08:34 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Three problems I see in that scenario is 1) conflict of training and coaching philosophies, 2) conflicts of practices and games (ultimately someone is going to want priority), and 3) do you really need to be playing that much soccer all at the same time?
Yea, I don't see the need. I could see the benefit of working with your club during the school season if it was just foot skills, keeper training, etc. I know my son's school coach and club coach have different strategies and philosophies. Heck, my son plays in a different position with his school team than his club team. I know several other players like that too.
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  #30  
Old 04-24-17, 07:45 AM
sweeney413 sweeney413 is offline
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Originally Posted by winbypin View Post
Well Ohio doesn't.

Is Oklahoma soccer any good?
Oklahoma soccer is definitely at a good level, but I would not say that it is as strong as Ohio. That is just from my experience with analyzing a few club teams from Oklahoma and their results.
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