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  #1  
Old 04-14-17, 06:27 PM
cvwrestle cvwrestle is offline
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College out of bounds rule in High School? Will it ever happen?

Any idea if this will ever happen in high school? I believe its been proposed and the reason over and over is a concern over "mat space."

I don't see why it couldn't be allowed and the ref needs to use his own judgement depending on the available space. My opinion is this also speeds up a tourney with limited stoppages per match. Kids wouldn't miss takedowns for have toe hair out like the rule is now.

It will also make life much easier for officials to call out of bounds which is not a simple thing to manage currently.

Anyone else have thoughts or know if this is in the pipeline? I believe most are in favor.
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  #2  
Old 04-14-17, 06:53 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvwrestle View Post
Any idea if this will ever happen in high school? I believe its been proposed and the reason over and over is a concern over "mat space."

I don't see why it couldn't be allowed and the ref needs to use his own judgement depending on the available space. My opinion is this also speeds up a tourney with limited stoppages per match. Kids wouldn't miss takedowns for have toe hair out like the rule is now.

It will also make life much easier for officials to call out of bounds which is not a simple thing to manage currently.

Anyone else have thoughts or know if this is in the pipeline? I believe most are in favor.
"Ever" is a LONG time so, who knows?

Use the officials judgement? Isn't that what we really want to avoid if possible? The difficulty arises when one official might allowing wrestling to continue in such a way that the wrestlers are onto the next mat. Now, what do you do when the wrestlers who are actually wrestling on that mat suddenly are coming straight at the wrestlers who are not on their mat. Someone is likely likely to be penalized (not a rules violation but simply not being able to finish a move) because they are out of mat space. This would not be fair to the wrestlers competing on the mat where they belong.

Your third paragraph makes me wonder about something though. Are you an official? If not, what makes you think that this change will make anything "easier" to call? It isn't difficult now. Anything that puts part of both wrestlers over the boundary line is out of bounds. It isn't difficult at all.

You wrote "Kids wouldn't miss takedowns for have toe hair out like the rule is now". Well, they wouldn't miss that potential TD if they were working in the center of the mat either. When they play near the boundary line, sometimes it doesn't work out. That is on the wrestler, not on the rules or location of the line.

End result, I can call it either way. It makes no difference to me. However, thinking that this is a cure-all is simply not realistic.
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  #3  
Old 04-14-17, 07:34 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Most high schools mats lack the outer mat space I believe.

On a local level, Darby district mat #4 would definitely be a problem.
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  #4  
Old 04-14-17, 08:36 PM
sportsbreeze sportsbreeze is offline
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I love the rule , would really like to see high schools pick it up.
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  #5  
Old 04-14-17, 08:50 PM
keithcarter keithcarter is offline
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I would prefer and think its more likely that they go to the Freestyle Step out rule. I just think with Gym Space not as much Mat Space college OFB is going to be tough. I would like something that keep kids wrestling in the center.
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  #6  
Old 04-15-17, 06:56 AM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithcarter View Post
I would prefer and think its more likely that they go to the Freestyle Step out rule. I just think with Gym Space not as much Mat Space college OFB is going to be tough. I would like something that keep kids wrestling in the center.
keithcarter and I agree on this. Leave the circle and it costs you a point. The boundary line is there for a reason.
Is there any other sport where scoring can take place outside the field of play? I ask because I can't think of any.
Why does the NCAA allow it in wrestling?
Asking for a friend.
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  #7  
Old 04-15-17, 08:18 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
keithcarter and I agree on this. Leave the circle and it costs you a point. The boundary line is there for a reason.
Is there any other sport where scoring can take place outside the field of play? I ask because I can't think of any.
Why does the NCAA allow it in wrestling?
Asking for a friend.
All sports to a degree allows some sort of action to take place outside of the boundary lines.

Baseball, a player can reach into the stands "out of play" boundary and create an out by making a catch.

Football, a player can stretch the ball across the goal line outside of the field of play and still score as long as the ball is across before he is completely out of bounds or doesn't touch.

Basketball allows the inbound man in certain situations to run around OB to inbound the ball. You can also score OB as long as you don't touch.

How is wrestling any different from any other sport? You said it yourself Jim, either they are in or they aren't. As long as one wrestler is inbounds, action continues, including scoring.
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  #8  
Old 04-15-17, 08:20 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithcarter View Post
I would prefer and think its more likely that they go to the Freestyle Step out rule. I just think with Gym Space not as much Mat Space college OFB is going to be tough. I would like something that keep kids wrestling in the center.
This idea works for your high level kids, but working with all kinds of talent levels, I can see many matches becoming sumo wrestling as soon as the whistle blows.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-17, 08:35 AM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is offline
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I am all for the college out of bounds rule. Allows for so much more wrestling. But as you mentioned, space would be an issue. At McClain, we have a 42 by 42 and two 38 by 38 and a 36 by 36, which is the old school three piece which don't have much on the out of bounds realm. Putting our newer mats together we can have a good amount of out of bounds room, but most places we go, I don't see much extra room. That would be the biggest concern, but as previously mentioned, the ref could use his judgement in particular situations if being out of bounds would mean, they are out of bounds only due to safety concerns and not because they were no longer within the lines.
Scheduling fewer teams and allowing for the extra lineless sections of the mats to be placed would help. The more mats placed, the less lineless sections can be put on the floor


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  #10  
Old 04-15-17, 09:48 AM
NCAAOHref NCAAOHref is offline
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Here is a thought, while I would love to see it, if officials would just start in PRE-MEET, you are to make every attempt to stay within the 10ft circle, I don't care if you take every shot, if you constantly take the action to the edge of the mat I am going to hit you for stalling. I use it pre-meet, and I really like it when some kid in the first or second match of the dual goes to the edge that 2nd or 3rd time in a row and I hit him for stalling and the coach yells out, HE TOLD YOU HE WAS GOING TO DO THAT, DID YOU THINK HE WAS LYING, NOW STAY IN THE CENTER!!. The rest of the wrestlers on BOTH TEAMS manage to wrestle in the center of the mat after that
.
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  #11  
Old 04-15-17, 01:03 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCAAOHref View Post
Here is a thought, while I would love to see it, if officials would just start in PRE-MEET, you are to make every attempt to stay within the 10ft circle, I don't care if you take every shot, if you constantly take the action to the edge of the mat I am going to hit you for stalling. I use it pre-meet, and I really like it when some kid in the first or second match of the dual goes to the edge that 2nd or 3rd time in a row and I hit him for stalling and the coach yells out, HE TOLD YOU HE WAS GOING TO DO THAT, DID YOU THINK HE WAS LYING, NOW STAY IN THE CENTER!!. The rest of the wrestlers on BOTH TEAMS manage to wrestle in the center of the mat after that
.
I operate much the same way. By the time the wrestlers get to the boundry line a third time, I am asking "what/who caused them to be there?".
I then hit that wrestler, who caused the action, with stalling.
I have yet to have a coach voice his displeasure.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-17, 10:39 PM
keithcarter keithcarter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
This idea works for your high level kids, but working with all kinds of talent levels, I can see many matches becoming sumo wrestling as soon as the whistle blows.
Ive watched kids of all levels during the last number of freestyle seasons and its very very rare to see a "sumo" match break out. Typically kids wrestle more center and that stops kids from thinking they can push someone from center to OFB. I know everyone fears this but it isnt happening.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-17, 01:37 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithcarter View Post
Ive watched kids of all levels during the last number of freestyle seasons and its very very rare to see a "sumo" match break out. Typically kids wrestle more center and that stops kids from thinking they can push someone from center to OFB. I know everyone fears this but it isnt happening.
I don't doubt what you are saying, but a majority of kids that do folkstyle scholastic wrestling, aren't doing freestyle. The numbers seem to be rising from what I can tell, but you're still seeing "elite" kids in freestyle competition.

Just curious, what do those matches with lower level kids look like when the OB line nears?
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  #14  
Old 04-18-17, 11:59 AM
pete pete is offline
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Give me a point for the push out and let me wrestle the full mat, not just the center.

I agree - I think a lot of high school gyms are not set up to be to safely allow the space needed for college OB.

I wrestled when you started with a foot on the center circle and you had to make contact before you left!
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  #15  
Old 04-18-17, 04:42 PM
keithcarter keithcarter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
I don't doubt what you are saying, but a majority of kids that do folkstyle scholastic wrestling, aren't doing freestyle. The numbers seem to be rising from what I can tell, but you're still seeing "elite" kids in freestyle competition.

Just curious, what do those matches with lower level kids look like when the OB line nears?
Truly those lower level kids made step out once abd they quickly realize i cant do that. A whole lot more of the wrestling stays in the middle. You get a lot more circling. More edge wrestling attempts than just stepping out to start over. Also you arent allowed to straight arm push out so you dont see it much.
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  #16  
Old 04-19-17, 08:24 AM
Blast82.5 Blast82.5 is offline
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An out-of-bounds point (push-out) would do more to increase action and scoring than the college out-of-bounds. IMO this has a greater chance of happening, simply due to the space concerns that accompany the college rule, as many have mentioned.

I agree with keithcarter ... kids at all levels learn VERY quickly that they need to wrestle in the center, and circle-in when nearing the edge. The edge becomes a scoring opportunity rather than a scoring-killer. 6-minute matches take about 7 minutes, rather than 10 or 12 or 15. This has a material difference on the length of tourneys.

Of course, refs could actually enforce current stalling and fleeing rules on nearly every out-of-bounds stoppage, and that would have a positive impact in these areas as well.
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  #17  
Old 04-19-17, 10:36 AM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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I agree that the mat area is a problem

I really think that at the state tournament the rule should be implemented. There is enough space and it allows for the more skilled wrestlers to excel. Less takedown controversy can allow for the action to be completed. If you are guy that does the double back step to the edge at district you will be exposed at states.
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