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  #121  
Old 04-10-17, 10:34 AM
spirit454 spirit454 is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Excellent post, but you gloss over a couple of points. First, the home grown atmosphere of smaller community high schools simply doesn't exist in inner cities, for public or private schools. Look at successful programs like Coldwater in football or Jackson in basketball and you will likely see (because of demographics or finances) a well run youth program that is integrated with the high school program. I have yet to hear ANY public school supporter admit this is an advantage. But these types of programs simply do not exist in metropolitan environments. Catholic schools have CYO, but as has been pointed out a time or two, the students from these grade schools have several choices of where to go to high school and it is in no way the cohesive group you see smaller community programs. But in metropolitan communities (especially with open enrollment) these well defined basically dedicated feeder programs do not exist. The students can play together all they want, but come decision time as to where to go to high school, there are more choices available than in smaller communities. Second, I wonder if your sense of outrage would be the same if your wrestling team would go up against St. Paris Graham. It's an excellent program where young wrestlers go to develop their skills, to face the best competition and to put themselves in better shape to get a college scholarship. Sounds a little like the VASJ model in basketball, doesn't it? Would your outrage be the same if Garaway were compelled to compete against them? Further, on these threads we look at things through the prism of sports, but that gives a very myopic view of inner city private schools. It ignores the foot print these schools have on the inner city. It ignores the outreach and the impact their mission has on the community. On these threads, people pretend the only non-Catholics that go to inner city private schools are stud athletes, but that is absolutely not the case. I am not one to say private schools do not have advantages under OHSAA rules; with the ability to say "no" to a student applicant being #1. But to hear some posters (not you, but others) try to vilify inner city Catholic schools is disgraceful. And lastly, is the issue that Garaway has to compete against a metro private or that they have to compete against metro schools at all? Is the issue public versus private or metro versus county? I am more familiar with D2 basketball, so let me refer to that. This year, by far the best D2 was Trotwood Madison. It took a Herculean effort and a wee bit of help from the leprechaun for the Irish to beat them. But suppose the Rams had won that game. Would Wauseon have been in any different position to win that game than against STVM? Actually, the Rams' height would have matched up against them a little better than ST. V's did. So, is the complaint that your small community home grown team has to play against a private school, or would your argument be the same if you had to play an OE metro public?
So because public schools have youth programs, private schools are allowed to....what?
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  #122  
Old 04-10-17, 02:46 PM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by spirit454 View Post
It's on there for a reason. I'm not grabbing for any straw. Don't misunderstand, I am fine with private education and understand that many are currently better than some public schools. It's sometimes the people that run them can lose their way and when placed in situations can forget the focus and priority of the education in order to advertise their employer.
Here is a thought for you. If private education was like homeschooling to where you attended class but all extracurricular events took place in the district you lived in. We can only wonder how the enrollment numbers would change.
So your answer is to basically do away with extracurriculars at private schools. Well, that would certainly settle the argument!
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  #123  
Old 04-10-17, 02:54 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
So your answer is to basically do away with extracurriculars at private schools. Well, that would certainly settle the argument!
just football and basketball.... I'm on board!!!!!!!
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  #124  
Old 04-10-17, 03:05 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by vamp2syd View Post
just football and basketball.... I'm on board!!!!!!!
He is saying that having a biddy ball program is not the same as taking 3 or more players off of the best AAU team in a major metro area.
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  #125  
Old 04-10-17, 03:09 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Or is it?
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  #126  
Old 04-10-17, 03:09 PM
22 Acacia Ave 22 Acacia Ave is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
So your answer is to basically do away with extracurriculars at private schools.
Most private schools would go out of business.
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  #127  
Old 04-10-17, 03:18 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Irish60 View Post
Excellent post, but you gloss over a couple of points. First, the home grown atmosphere of smaller community high schools simply doesn't exist in inner cities, for public or private schools. Look at successful programs like Coldwater in football or Jackson in basketball and you will likely see (because of demographics or finances) a well run youth program that is integrated with the high school program. I have yet to hear ANY public school supporter admit this is an advantage. But these types of programs simply do not exist in metropolitan environments. Catholic schools have CYO, but as has been pointed out a time or two, the students from these grade schools have several choices of where to go to high school and it is in no way the cohesive group you see smaller community programs. But in metropolitan communities (especially with open enrollment) these well defined basically dedicated feeder programs do not exist. The students can play together all they want, but come decision time as to where to go to high school, there are more choices available than in smaller communities. Second, I wonder if your sense of outrage would be the same if your wrestling team would go up against St. Paris Graham. It's an excellent program where young wrestlers go to develop their skills, to face the best competition and to put themselves in better shape to get a college scholarship. Sounds a little like the VASJ model in basketball, doesn't it? Would your outrage be the same if Garaway were compelled to compete against them? Further, on these threads we look at things through the prism of sports, but that gives a very myopic view of inner city private schools. It ignores the foot print these schools have on the inner city. It ignores the outreach and the impact their mission has on the community. On these threads, people pretend the only non-Catholics that go to inner city private schools are stud athletes, but that is absolutely not the case. I am not one to say private schools do not have advantages under OHSAA rules; with the ability to say "no" to a student applicant being #1. But to hear some posters (not you, but others) try to vilify inner city Catholic schools is disgraceful. And lastly, is the issue that Garaway has to compete against a metro private or that they have to compete against metro schools at all? Is the issue public versus private or metro versus county? I am more familiar with D2 basketball, so let me refer to that. This year, by far the best D2 was Trotwood Madison. It took a Herculean effort and a wee bit of help from the leprechaun for the Irish to beat them. But suppose the Rams had won that game. Would Wauseon have been in any different position to win that game than against STVM? Actually, the Rams' height would have matched up against them a little better than ST. V's did. So, is the complaint that your small community home grown team has to play against a private school, or would your argument be the same if you had to play an OE metro public?
And I would say that you make several false assumptions: 1) That I am against successful programs, regardless of sport. I ain't. 2) I have no "outrage", no matter what we are talking about with HS sports. It's HS sports. It's value is the life lessons that are taught through it, except for the very, very small percent who might go to a major university and possibly to the pros. 3) But if we are going to talk about competitive balance, then let's be honest about what causes it and address that. The cause is schools like VASJ who can comprise their team from elite AAU teams in a metro area, and the OHSAA telling Garaway to compete against them when they don't have access to those kinds of athletes. That's all. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with VASJ or St. Weball. It does mean that there is something with the way the OHSAA has set it up.
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  #128  
Old 04-10-17, 03:23 PM
IVCguy IVCguy is offline
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Originally Posted by Kballer View Post
Or is it?
No, because in an athletic contest, the bigger, stronger, better athletes tend to have the greatest advantage, all other things considered. Things like a great biddy ball program can narrow the talent advantage, but not negate it. Again, it's hard to guard 6'9" with 6'2". It's science, and to deny it, well, it amazes me that some try.
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