Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority  

Go Back   Yappi Sports - THE Ohio Prep Sports Authority > Boys HS Sports > Wrestling

Hello Guest!
Take a minute to register, It's 100% FREE! What are you waiting for?
Register Now
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #451  
Old 03-12-17, 09:09 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Your question is hypothetical so there is no possible way to answer it.
Ask the question but turned around 180 degrees.
How many possible injuries were prevented by having two officials on the mat?
Again, there is no way to know.

Believe me when I tell you that when a wrestler is injured on our mat, we feel very bad about it. I am sure the officials in this match feel that way too.

I did not see this match but the assistant always has the ability to tell the lead official that there is a problem that requires stopping the match.
Reply With Quote
  #452  
Old 03-14-17, 11:44 AM
Refman's Avatar
Refman Refman is offline
Humble Moderator
 
Join Date: 12-10-01
Location: Ohio
Posts: 633
Refman is on a distinguished road
The asst CAN tell the lead to stop the match.
Reply With Quote
  #453  
Old 03-14-17, 12:03 PM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 05-29-14
Posts: 439
bluepride1990 is on a distinguished road
If so why do I see many times where the asst signals a hold has slipped to illegal but wait till change or pin when time has run off the clock and the kid has been in illegal hold for some amount of time before action is stopped or restarted after a pin.

A kid being held in an illegal and potentially dangerous situation until the asst can confer with the head ref is a disaster waiting to happen.

I just seem to see it happen enough that it does not seem right for a kid to fight an illegal hold for 30+ sec to give up a pin and then have to return to action.

Thankfully has not been an issue for my son. God for bid the ref that gets a kid seriously injured because he did not stop action.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #454  
Old 03-14-17, 12:23 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
If so why do I see many times where the asst signals a hold has slipped to illegal but wait till change or pin when time has run off the clock and the kid has been in illegal hold for some amount of time before action is stopped or restarted after a pin.

A kid being held in an illegal and potentially dangerous situation until the asst can confer with the head ref is a disaster waiting to happen.
What signal is the asst showing??
In my experience, any time my asst has noticed something illegal they tell me. There is no signal for this and if I am looking for a pin, I likely would not see them.

Regarding your second point, "illegal" and "potentially dangerous" are very different animals. You need to be aware of the differences. Are you?
In a PD action, the match does not always need to be stopped. Think of the grabbing of headgear or clothing or a clasp as an example of when the match is not stopped.
Reply With Quote
  #455  
Old 03-14-17, 02:15 PM
bluepride1990 bluepride1990 is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 05-29-14
Posts: 439
bluepride1990 is on a distinguished road
I have seen the assist give the illegal hold sign and nothing happen till the pin with significant time run down.

With regard to illegal and potentially dangerous I am referring to the ones that are illegal because they are potentially dangerous. For example a head and arm pin combination when the locked hands slide to become potentially dangerous and therefore an illegal headlock.

I recognize that somethings are potentially dangerous and not illegal and some things are technical violations and not potentially dangerous. My concern is potentially dangerous (especially if illegal) that can cause serious harm to a wrestler if not stopped. More specifically when hard to see by the head ref and the assist sees and does not stop action.
Reply With Quote
  #456  
Old 03-14-17, 02:40 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepride1990 View Post
I have seen the assist give the illegal hold sign and nothing happen till the pin with significant time run down.

With regard to illegal and potentially dangerous I am referring to the ones that are illegal because they are potentially dangerous. For example a head and arm pin combination when the locked hands slide to become potentially dangerous and therefore an illegal headlock.

I recognize that somethings are potentially dangerous and not illegal and some things are technical violations and not potentially dangerous. My concern is potentially dangerous (especially if illegal) that can cause serious harm to a wrestler if not stopped. More specifically when hard to see by the head ref and the assist sees and does not stop action.
Never having done that (give an illegal hold sign as an asst) and never having seen anyone do it, I can't offer any more. I am guessing that the asst doesn't think the situation is what you think it is. That is just a guess.

Just an FYI, all headlocks are considered to be PD. However, there are some occasions where a headlock in a pinning combination is perfectly legal once near fall criteria is met.

You wrote "I am referring to the ones that are illegal because they are potentially dangerous". I can't say that I understand what you mean by this. Holds are not illegal because they are PD, they are simply illegal. A PD hold could become illegal but the reverse is not true. An illegal hold is illegal immediately and should be stopped as soon as it is seen.
Reply With Quote
  #457  
Old 03-14-17, 03:46 PM
dion dion is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 12-07-15
Posts: 312
dion is on a distinguished road
You wrote "I am referring to the ones that are illegal because they are potentially dangerous". I can't say that I understand what you mean by this. Holds are not illegal because they are PD, they are simply illegal. A PD hold could become illegal but the reverse is not true. An illegal hold is illegal immediately and should be stopped as soon as it is seen.[/QUOTE]

Just a clarification; A full nelson and a figure four (unless only one leg) are illegal by definition, whereas an over scissors is not illegal until pressure is applied. However an official would be expected to stop wrestling immediately when observing an over scissors because it's PD; correct?
Reply With Quote
  #458  
Old 03-14-17, 10:16 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dion View Post
Just a clarification; A full nelson and a figure four (unless only one leg) are illegal by definition, whereas an over scissors is not illegal until pressure is applied. However an official would be expected to stop wrestling immediately when observing an over scissors because it's PD; correct?
Not in my opinion for two reasons.
1) It is not listed as a PD hold and
2) we can show the signal for PD without having to stop the match.
Having said that, we usually do stop it but that is not required. It may simply mean that we are watching it closely and might have to stop it.

This situation used to be illegal by application. I am guessing that it was changed about 12 to 15 years ago. I will say that I was never comfortable with the change. The reason I felt this way is because by the time it becomes illegal the damage could have been done. That makes no sense to me but I don't get that choice.
Reply With Quote
  #459  
Old 03-15-17, 10:00 AM
dion dion is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 12-07-15
Posts: 312
dion is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
Not in my opinion for two reasons.
1) It is not listed as a PD hold and
2) we can show the signal for PD without having to stop the match.
Having said that, we usually do stop it but that is not required. It may simply mean that we are watching it closely and might have to stop it.

This situation used to be illegal by application. I am guessing that it was changed about 12 to 15 years ago. I will say that I was never comfortable with the change. The reason I felt this way is because by the time it becomes illegal the damage could have been done. That makes no sense to me but I don't get that choice.
A repeated theme from our three RI is to "enforce the spirit" of the rule. Now personally I feel that gives them an "out" so that they can tweak a rule when they find it advantageous, but that's another story. Going back to that theme, I still believe that an over scissors with no pressure is PD, and an official is being negligent by not stopping the situation (rationale being at one time it was illegal by definition). Just because a move or situation is not specifically noted as being potentially dangerous in the rule book it doesn't make it an option to stop. A chicken wing is illegal by definition, however, how often as officials to we see a hand slip up to the chicken wing (with no pressure) during a good scramble. At this point haven't we been instructed to stop the situation as PD. Whereas awarding a penalty pt. in this situation would probably a little over zealous. This is not the way it's instructed in the rule book. JMHO
Reply With Quote
  #460  
Old 03-15-17, 10:25 AM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dion View Post
A repeated theme from our three RI is to "enforce the spirit" of the rule. Now personally I feel that gives them an "out" so that they can tweak a rule when they find it advantageous, but that's another story. Going back to that theme, I still believe that an over scissors with no pressure is PD, and an official is being negligent by not stopping the situation (rationale being at one time it was illegal by definition). Just because a move or situation is not specifically noted as being potentially dangerous in the rule book it doesn't make it an option to stop. A chicken wing is illegal by definition, however, how often as officials to we see a hand slip up to the chicken wing (with no pressure) during a good scramble. At this point haven't we been instructed to stop the situation as PD. Whereas awarding a penalty pt. in this situation would probably a little over zealous. This is not the way it's instructed in the rule book. JMHO
I want to stress that I think we are, more or less, thinking alike. I don't like to see an over-scissors because of what might happen. I can't argue with the idea that it used to be illegal so it is viewed as possibly PD. You are perfectly entitled to stop any situation where you think a PD situation exists.

However, the chicken wing is not illegal if applied properly (perpendicular to the axis of the back). The rule book says " chicken wing with pressure toward the shoulder, parallel to the long axis of the body". My feeling is that I tell the wrestler to keep the wing legal. If it starts to "creep" up, I stop it as PD. If he drives it forward, at all, it becomes illegal and he suffers the penalty.

As you say, JMO.
Reply With Quote
  #461  
Old 03-16-17, 10:20 AM
wrestlfan wrestlfan is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-12-06
Posts: 927
wrestlfan is on a distinguished road
i watched a match this weekend where it was 1-0 with 10 seconds left in match and the asst. ref made a locking hands call
man, it was great to see how it is supposed to work happening!
I thought the officiating was great
I had a guy lose a match to a runner up 1-0 on a stalling call- my guy was not wrestling hard enough- no excuses

Last edited by wrestlfan; 03-16-17 at 10:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #462  
Old 04-09-17, 06:55 PM
Poltergeist Poltergeist is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 12-07-15
Posts: 13
Poltergeist is on a distinguished road
Is tickling legal? if so when and how
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 10-10-17, 09:27 PM
herbiehancock herbiehancock is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 01-31-17
Posts: 15
herbiehancock is an unknown quantity at this point
Question: wrestler A throws wrestler B to his back, but wrestler Bís entire upper back is out of bounds, while both wrestlers bottom halves are in. Should a ref ever call stale mate in this situation? No back points should be counted correct?
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 10-10-17, 10:30 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
Unbias Nation
 
Join Date: 10-21-01
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 2,734
wjjsj is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poltergeist View Post
Is tickling legal? if so when and how
Tickling? I would call Unsportsmanlike.
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 10-10-17, 10:31 PM
wjjsj wjjsj is offline
Unbias Nation
 
Join Date: 10-21-01
Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
Posts: 2,734
wjjsj is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbiehancock View Post
Question: wrestler A throws wrestler B to his back, but wrestler Bís entire upper back is out of bounds, while both wrestlers bottom halves are in. Should a ref ever call stale mate in this situation? No back points should be counted correct?
Stalemate? No

New this year, back points can be counted.
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 10-11-17, 07:55 AM
jmog jmog is offline
All World
 
Join Date: 05-11-12
Posts: 2,573
jmog is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wjjsj View Post
Stalemate? No

New this year, back points can be counted.
Near fall can be awarded while defenders back is out of bounds now? Can a fall be awarded out of bounds similar to college?
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 10-11-17, 08:07 AM
dion dion is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 12-07-15
Posts: 312
dion is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Near fall can be awarded while defenders back is out of bounds now? Can a fall be awarded out of bounds similar to college?
Yes
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 10-19-17, 02:13 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Near fall can be awarded while defenders back is out of bounds now? Can a fall be awarded out of bounds similar to college?
Based on what we were told at our State Rules meeting a couple of nights ago, it is different enough from the college call that I am sure it will raise some issues.
What constitutes out of bounds will be the big issue but time will tell.
Baby steps.
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 10-30-17, 07:06 PM
TheFan1 TheFan1 is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 02-06-10
Posts: 718
TheFan1 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Near fall can be awarded while defenders back is out of bounds now? Can a fall be awarded out of bounds similar to college?
Interesting post I found on Insider:

Please be Nice to Highschool refs 2017-2018..... they MUST DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD. Most i have spoken with disagree with the interpretatio

n. (FEET ARE NOT A SUPPORTING POINT WHILE ON THE MAT)

If you are on your toes... in Text Book Pinning position with Just your feet in bounds.... It is out of bounds restart....

If You are in perfect Perterson position on your heals only out of pinning your opponent out of bounds... again restart...

Basically as soon as space appears at your legs you are out of bounds....

(NFHS Rule 5-15-2) Supporting points are the parts of the body
touching, or within, the wrestling area which bear the wrestlerís
weight, other than those parts with which the wrestler is holding the
opponent.
a. When down on the mat, the usual points of support are:
1. the knees;
2. the side of the thigh;
3. the buttocks;
4. the hand(s).
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 01-09-18, 10:44 AM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-05
Location: greenfield
Posts: 2,688
wash.c.h.legend is on a distinguished road
question:high school wrestling

if my team is wrestling duals in back to back days, at two different locations, but we don't want ourselves and the other team(s) to have an addition pound on the second day because my team is always under weight anyway, does the ADDITIONAL pound have to be given?
Reply With Quote
  #471  
Old 01-09-18, 12:56 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wash.c.h.legend View Post
question:high school wrestling

if my team is wrestling duals in back to back days, at two different locations, but we don't want ourselves and the other team(s) to have an addition pound on the second day because my team is always under weight anyway, does the ADDITIONAL pound have to be given?
Every year someone comes up with a question that I have never seen asked before. This is unusual because most coaches lobby for add'l weight.

There is no rule "requiring" the 48 hour notice be given nor that any add'l weight be allowed (over and above the growth allowance for this time of year).
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 01-09-18, 01:02 PM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is online now
All World
 
Join Date: 12-11-05
Location: greenfield
Posts: 2,688
wash.c.h.legend is on a distinguished road
Thanks so much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #473  
Old 01-09-18, 01:06 PM
350zjk 350zjk is offline
All Region
 
Join Date: 02-09-10
Posts: 368
350zjk is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by wash.c.h.legend View Post
question:high school wrestling

if my team is wrestling duals in back to back days, at two different locations, but we don't want ourselves and the other team(s) to have an addition pound on the second day because my team is always under weight anyway, does the ADDITIONAL pound have to be given?
Wow, What a great question. My opinion is that it would be completely legal. The rule was made to assist the team(s) wrestling consecutive days relative to wt. reduction. If a team chose not to receive this assist, that should be their option. If the opposing team was not notified prior to 48 hrs. it would become a moot pt. anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old 01-19-18, 08:22 AM
NsideTripr NsideTripr is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 11-05-13
Posts: 4
NsideTripr is on a distinguished road
Making Scratch Question:

If I input a kid in a tournament say @ 126, and have him make scratch @ 120, assuming his alpha allows for it, does that count as the Certified Scratch weigh in for 120 or would I have to have him entered in the 120 weight class to make it official?
Reply With Quote
  #475  
Old 01-19-18, 08:51 AM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by NsideTripr View Post
Making Scratch Question:

If I input a kid in a tournament say @ 126, and have him make scratch @ 120, assuming his alpha allows for it, does that count as the Certified Scratch weigh in for 120 or would I have to have him entered in the 120 weight class to make it official?
My advice, NEVER look to a forum for info concerning eligibility or weight issues. Always call the OHSAA office (614-267-2502) for the official word. They determine what the rules mean.
Reply With Quote
  #476  
Old 01-22-18, 02:02 PM
TakedownFor2 TakedownFor2 is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 06-07-10
Posts: 855
TakedownFor2 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by NsideTripr View Post
Making Scratch Question:

If I input a kid in a tournament say @ 126, and have him make scratch @ 120, assuming his alpha allows for it, does that count as the Certified Scratch weigh in for 120 or would I have to have him entered in the 120 weight class to make it official?
I would have to believe that this would count as his scratch weigh in. Just as if he weighed in a 120 for a dual and wrestled 126.
Reply With Quote
  #477  
Old 01-22-18, 02:06 PM
HHSCoach HHSCoach is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 04-24-17
Posts: 7
HHSCoach is on a distinguished road
Scoring Question:

Wrestler "A" is holding wrestler "B" to his back. Wrestler "A" has earned a 5 count. Wrestler "B's" hand goes into wrestler "A's" face and eyes, causing a stoppage. How many points does wrestler "A" receive and what would they be marked as on the bout sheet?
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 01-22-18, 02:14 PM
cvwrestle cvwrestle is offline
All District
 
Join Date: 02-25-04
Location: Columbus
Posts: 131
cvwrestle is on a distinguished road
Well.. if it caused a stoppage it would be 4NF and a 1 point for an illegal hold.

Most refs should and will slap there hand away especially in a pinning combination if they going to the eyes or face. Obviously not wanting to reward the defensive wrestler for doing something illegal to get off his back.

If he is getting super crazy and eye gouging it would be flagrant.
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 01-22-18, 02:24 PM
HHSCoach HHSCoach is offline
Freshman
 
Join Date: 04-24-17
Posts: 7
HHSCoach is on a distinguished road
That's what I thought but wasn't sure if the penalty point was included in the 4 point NF. It was scored wrong in the match but resulted in a TF so not a huge deal

Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #480  
Old 01-22-18, 03:20 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
All Ohio
 
Join Date: 01-18-11
Posts: 595
Jim Behrens is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by HHSCoach View Post
That's what I thought but wasn't sure if the penalty point was included in the 4 point NF. It was scored wrong in the match but resulted in a TF so not a huge deal

Thank you
Keep in mind that the points have been earned and will be awarded the next time the action is stopped. It might be at that time if the official feels it is required but it might not be until the next time they go out of bounds or the period ends. Bottom line is that the offensive wrestler has earned 4 NF and 1P points.
BTW, the reason it is awarded this way is to allow for keeping track of any and all penalty points.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 AM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Registration Booster - Powered By Dirt RIF CustUmz