tOSU vs psu #1 coming to the house!

[wrestling125]

Originally Posted by ProV1

By definition, overrated means you are considered inferior to an alternative. Further, to contend is to be competitive. I guess in your view, Fernie Silva is a contender but Jordan is not. Brilliant take. BTW...who is Fernie Silva? Ashnault better not see that stud again.

Many considered him the best man at this weight coming into this year. He has showed that he is not a title contender and is definitely not the best guy in this weight. Does that full under the category of overrated you hillbilly?

[eliwes]

Originally Posted by wrestling125

Many considered him the best man at this weight coming into this year. He has showed that he is not a title contender and is definitely not the best guy in this weight. Does that full under the category of overrated you hillbilly?

Hillbilly?
That falls under the category excessive speculation.

[ttwo0603]

Originally Posted by Cthelites

This is the same thing every yr. tOSU gets hammered by the great psu and everyone wants to fire TR. I’m sorry but he has done an amazing job! I still think they end up 2nd or third at worse. They just aren’t penn state. Memo...NOBODY HAS DONE WHAT PENN STATE HAS DONE. I was hoping they could pull the upset at home with that SRO crowd at the John. Was cool til pletch did pletch. I knew right then over!

You're missing the point. It's not about them losing to PSU. It's the way they wrestle, the culture, the lack of heart, the horrible display of mat wrestling and the way they lose. That is the issue that a lot of people have with this team. If you can't see it, it's either you don't want to or you lack the eye and knowledge of what wrestling is about.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[ttwo0603]

Originally Posted by Coach Root

I enjoyed the dual... not because PSU beat up on OSU, but because of the RBY vs Pletcher and Lee vs. McKenna matches. Everything else was somewhat expected. Those thinking Moore was going to compete were just being biased. Those calling for Coach Ryan's head... PSU has done that to everyone this season. I do think this is a theme though. OSU has a history of looking terrible late in the season and yet seem to pull it together around the time of Big Tens. My opinion is that they need some new life on the staff... I'm not questioning the talent of any of the current staff, but I think there is better COACHES out there. They let Thatcher go... big mistake. And they lost Rosselli. Some will argue Oklahoma's limited results, but Lou was the driving force, anyone that doesn't see that is blind. I think coach Ryan is one of the top recruiters in D1... so why bring on Anthony Ralph??? I'm sure he's a good coach, but his title is that of recruiting... I don't think he's the reason kids are choosing OSU over PSU or Iowa. They are a top 3 school year in and year out... it's an awesome accomplishment, so don't think that I'm bashing them, but if they are wanting to really compete with the big boys, they need to make some changes. The talent is there, just look at the kids they are pulling in year in and year out. I think the problem is a lack of production by the staff. Just my two cents.





Coach Root

You are spot on Coach! I agree 110%

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[meluvwrestling]

Originally Posted by Coach Root

I enjoyed the dual... not because PSU beat up on OSU, but because of the RBY vs Pletcher and Lee vs. McKenna matches. Everything else was somewhat expected. Those thinking Moore was going to compete were just being biased. Those calling for Coach Ryan's head... PSU has done that to everyone this season. I do think this is a theme though. OSU has a history of looking terrible late in the season and yet seem to pull it together around the time of Big Tens. My opinion is that they need some new life on the staff... I'm not questioning the talent of any of the current staff, but I think there is better COACHES out there. They let Thatcher go... big mistake. And they lost Rosselli. Some will argue Oklahoma's limited results, but Lou was the driving force, anyone that doesn't see that is blind. I think coach Ryan is one of the top recruiters in D1... so why bring on Anthony Ralph??? I'm sure he's a good coach, but his title is that of recruiting... I don't think he's the reason kids are choosing OSU over PSU or Iowa. They are a top 3 school year in and year out... it's an awesome accomplishment, so don't think that I'm bashing them, but if they are wanting to really compete with the big boys, they need to make some changes. The talent is there, just look at the kids they are pulling in year in and year out. I think the problem is a lack of production by the staff. Just my two cents.
Coach Root

I've been saying this for years but alot of fans don't want to recognize the lack of production by the coaches. The coaches worry so much about what their opponents are good at that they make our guys defensive wrestlers instead of offensive competitors as a team, not just a handful of individuals.

I've never understood Anthony Ralph or Bo Jordan hire and that's not a knock on either guy. Are there better options, I don't know that either. Coach Ryan needs to change his approach to coaching period. Ryan is getting the top recruits and they start off wonderfully but as the years go on, they seem to decline. PSU guys seem to get better every year. Just frustrating because the tOSU team is and can be better than what I saw yesterday.

[Cthelites]

Originally Posted by ttwo0603

You're missing the point. It's not about them losing to PSU. It's the way they wrestle, the culture, the lack of heart, the horrible display of mat wrestling and the way they lose. That is the issue that a lot of people have with this team. If you can't see it, it's either you don't want to or you lack the eye and knowledge of what wrestling is about.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

I’m as frustrated as everyone else. Again we’ve been seeing and hearing this for 2-3 yrs after the psu duals. They do have a different culture. They’ve won 7 out of the last 8 titles. So when u compare tOSU to them we r going to fall short.
TOSU has usually been ready come March. They have won 3 out of last 4 B1Gs and of course won it all in 15. Had the highest all time second place finish last yr.
U might be able to call out a couple kids with heart but you can’t say that about all of them. WHAT OTHER TEAM OTHER THAN PSU HAS A BETTER WINNING CULTURE THAN OSU? Sometimes u just got to tip your cap to the better team/program/opponent. They are more dominant than the freaking patriots!

[ProV1]

Originally Posted by meluvwrestling

I've been saying this for years but alot of fans don't want to recognize the lack of production by the coaches. The coaches worry so much about what their opponents are good at that they make our guys defensive wrestlers instead of offensive competitors as a team, not just a handful of individuals.

I've never understood Anthony Ralph or Bo Jordan hire and that's not a knock on either guy. Are there better options, I don't know that either. Coach Ryan needs to change his approach to coaching period. Ryan is getting the top recruits and they start off wonderfully but as the years go on, they seem to decline. PSU guys seem to get better every year. Just frustrating because the tOSU team is and can be better than what I saw yesterday.

Why is Anthony Ralph even part of the discussion? He doesn’t coach anybody. He is the recruiting coordinator. I have never once seen somebody criticize the OSU football coaching by saying Mark Pantoni is a bogus hire. Silly.

A head coach has 3 primary responsibilities. Recruit, raise money, and develop. Ryan is all world at the first two as evidenced by the roster and the their new facilities. Is he the best technician? Likely no. That said, he has largely delivered at tourney time. Maybe OSU should dump him and go hire a great technician like Rosselli? He will be available soon. Oklahoma is a dumpster fire of a program right now. Maybe that will make folks happy.

[ProV1]

https://twitter.com/wrestlingbucks/s...25966809337858

[meluvwrestling]

Originally Posted by ProV1

Why is Anthony Ralph even part of the discussion? He doesn’t coach anybody. He is the recruiting coordinator. I have never once seen somebody criticize the OSU football coaching by saying Mark Pantoni is a bogus hire. Silly.

A head coach has 3 primary responsibilities. Recruit, raise money, and develop. Ryan is all world at the first two as evidenced by the roster and the their new facilities. Is he the best technician? Likely no. That said, he has largely delivered at tourney time. Maybe OSU should dump him and go hire a great technician like Rosselli? He will be available soon. Oklahoma is a dumpster fire of a program right now. Maybe that will make folks happy.

Ralph is part of the staff and has alot of interaction with the team, that's why I added him. IMO, Ryan doesn't have an issue with recruiting athletes prior to that hiring. Why can't you hiring someone who can recruit, technician and roll around with the guys? You said so yourself that Ryan is all world when it comes to recruiting. If Ryan is "likely no" the best technician, wouldn't it be smarter to hire someone to fill that gap than a recruiter which he is already "all world"?

[ProV1]

Originally Posted by meluvwrestling

Ralph is part of the staff and has alot of interaction with the team, that's why I added him. IMO, Ryan doesn't have an issue with recruiting athletes prior to that hiring. Why can't you hiring someone who can recruit, technician and roll around with the guys? You said so yourself that Ryan is all world when it comes to recruiting. If Ryan is "likely no" the best technician, wouldn't it be smarter to hire someone to fill that gap than a recruiter which he is already "all world"?

Because Ralph’s presence does not mean that you can’t or don’t have a full staff of coaches. They have a full staff and are not under resourced. Again, he does not coach the athletes. He identifies high school kids, develops relationships, and then is the detail guy around getting kids the maximum amount of money between athletic scholarships, academics, and other available grants. You may not value this but it is tricky and not always apparent. His work allows the program to likely sign kids that they otherwise could not. I’m sure there a lot of programs that would love to have him.

[bdhof]

For those wanting to trash tOSU and Coach Ryan, at least we're not IOWA. A couple of fun facts:
1) Low energy Luke Pletcher has more bonus wins than 7 of the 10 IOWA starters (other than Lee, Desanto and Marinelli). And this is the team that some on this thread love to watch? They probably binge watch Twilight Zone reruns on Netflix.
2) Coach Brands burst on the scene in 2007, taking over the nations most dominant program (perennial B10 and NCAA champs thru most of the 70s, 80s and 90s). His teams won 3 straight NCAA titles after an 8th place finish in his first year. However, in the last four years, he has beaten tOSU once in the B10 (plus 1 tie) and 0 times in the NCAAs.
2015 B10 tOSU T-1st IOWA T-1st
2015 NCAA tOSU 1st IOWA 2nd
2016 B10 tOSU 3rd IOWA 2nd
2016 NCAA tOSU 3rd IOWA 5th
2017 B10 tOSU 1st IOWA 3rd
2017 NCAA tOSU 2nd IOWA 4th
2018 B10 tOSU 1st IOWA 4th
2018 NCAA tOSU 2nd IOWA 3rd

IOWA is a team that is not happy with anything other than 1st place. In 2015 they were a heavy favorite to run away with both B10 and NCAA. PSU RS'ed everyone they could, acknowledging defeat. tOSU shocked everyone with an improbable tie in B10 and an equally improbable win at NCAA.

And I'm not happy with tOSU getting pummeled. But if I would jump on a bandwagon, it would be PSU (and I'm not). That's an exciting team to watch. The top four guys currently on the NCAA Most Dominant List are all PSU. They are fun to watch, unless you are a tOSU, IOWA, OKST fan (add your favorite program here) and are competing against them. As far as IOWA, I would choose Twilight Zone reruns on Netflix.

[bdhof]

[Cthelites]

Originally Posted by bdhof

Love the zone! Many late nights in college watching the reruns back then.
Much better than rooting for Iowa.

[bdhof]

Originally Posted by Cthelites

Love the zone! Many late nights in college watching the reruns back then.
Much better than rooting for Iowa.

I have to admit that I do watch the reruns on Netflix, but I don't watch IOWA wrestling unless they're wrestling tOSU or PSU.

[Cthelites]

Originally Posted by bdhof

I have to admit that I do watch the reruns on Netflix, but I don't watch IOWA wrestling unless they're wrestling tOSU or PSU.

I will watch but not go out of my just for the train wreck element.
What might they do next to embarrass themselves...coaches definitely included in that!

[Lambeau Fields]

Originally Posted by Coach Root

I enjoyed the dual... not because PSU beat up on OSU, but because of the RBY vs Pletcher [match]

Not meant as an attack coach, but I never thought anyone would type that they actually enjoyed that RBY vs. Pletcher match. I'm not sure how that is even possible.

I suppose maybe because of the last 30 seconds? However, I'm not sure I've ever witnessed 8 minutes of two wrestlers ever being more scared to attempt to score in my lifetime.

[Cthelites]

In other news...NW bumped up Rivera to face Micic. Nice battle of #1s

[Cthelites]

Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields

Not meant as an attack coach, but I never thought anyone would type that they actually enjoyed that RBY vs. Pletcher match. I'm not sure how that is even possible.

I suppose maybe because of the last 30 seconds? However, I'm not sure I've ever witnessed 8 minutes of two wrestlers ever being more scared to attempt to score in my lifetime.

Tru dat! Mr defense vs mr tripod stance

[bdhof]

Originally Posted by Cthelites

In other news...NW bumped up Rivera to face Micic. Nice battle of #1s

Wow! I don’t see that ending well for Seabass, but great for the fans.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cthelites]

Originally Posted by Cthelites

In other news...NW bumped up Rivera to face Micic. Nice battle of #1s

Rivera quick as a cat but Micic just too big and strong and powerful for him.

[bdhof]

Micic wins 10-4


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ProV1]

Originally Posted by bdhof

For those wanting to trash tOSU and Coach Ryan, at least we're not IOWA. A couple of fun facts:
1) Low energy Luke Pletcher has more bonus wins than 7 of the 10 IOWA starters (other than Lee, Desanto and Marinelli). And this is the team that some on this thread love to watch? They probably binge watch Twilight Zone reruns on Netflix.
2) Coach Brands burst on the scene in 2007, taking over the nations most dominant program (perennial B10 and NCAA champs thru most of the 70s, 80s and 90s). His teams won 3 straight NCAA titles after an 8th place finish in his first year. However, in the last four years, he has beaten tOSU once in the B10 (plus 1 tie) and 0 times in the NCAAs.
2015 B10 tOSU T-1st IOWA T-1st
2015 NCAA tOSU 1st IOWA 2nd
2016 B10 tOSU 3rd IOWA 2nd
2016 NCAA tOSU 3rd IOWA 5th
2017 B10 tOSU 1st IOWA 3rd
2017 NCAA tOSU 2nd IOWA 4th
2018 B10 tOSU 1st IOWA 4th
2018 NCAA tOSU 2nd IOWA 3rd

IOWA is a team that is not happy with anything other than 1st place. In 2015 they were a heavy favorite to run away with both B10 and NCAA. PSU RS'ed everyone they could, acknowledging defeat. tOSU shocked everyone with an improbable tie in B10 and an equally improbable win at NCAA.

And I'm not happy with tOSU getting pummeled. But if I would jump on a bandwagon, it would be PSU (and I'm not). That's an exciting team to watch. The top four guys currently on the NCAA Most Dominant List are all PSU. They are fun to watch, unless you are a tOSU, IOWA, OKST fan (add your favorite program here) and are competing against them. As far as IOWA, I would choose Twilight Zone reruns on Netflix.

Please don’t confuse folks by debunking popular narratives with facts. Now if you do the same in challenging the popular theory of OSU being bad mat wrestlers, Yappi will explode.

[meluvwrestling]

Originally Posted by ProV1

Because Ralph’s presence does not mean that you can’t or don’t have a full staff of coaches. They have a full staff and are not under resourced. Again, he does not coach the athletes. He identifies high school kids, develops relationships, and then is the detail guy around getting kids the maximum amount of money between athletic scholarships, academics, and other available grants. You may not value this but it is tricky and not always apparent. His work allows the program to likely sign kids that they otherwise could not. I’m sure there a lot of programs that would love to have him.

No one is talking about staff count, I'm about prioritizing staff members and versatility in order to distribute responsibility in multiple areas. I don't know what other programs are looking for so not even going there. My prioritization is different than yours and I see more value in a recruiter/working out with these young men more valuable than recruiting services only. TR does a good job at recruiting and I just never seen that as an area that needed to be field.

[ProV1]

Originally Posted by meluvwrestling

No one is talking about staff count, I'm about prioritizing staff members and versatility in order to distribute responsibility in multiple areas. I don't know what other programs are looking for so not even going there. My prioritization is different than yours and I see more value in a recruiter/working out with these young men more valuable than recruiting services only. TR does a good job at recruiting and I just never seen that as an area that needed to be field.

If you really feel that what OSU needs is better technical coaching and training partners, than your issue should not be with the presence of Anthony Ralph. Your issue is that they need to top grade the guys whose job it is to do that. I don’t know enough to technically critique Jaggers, Tervel, and BoJo. Maybe they are not deserving of being on the OSU staff? Maybe the RTC with Snyder and NATO is not that beneficial? I had always thought the technical coaching and the environment was a strength and not a liability.

[Mr.wrsln2]

State College has better air quality?

[ProV1]

Originally Posted by Mr.wrsln2

State College has better air quality?

Maybe...I know this...Penn State has the same regulation coaching make up as Ohio State. They have a head coach, 2 assistants, a volunteer assistant, and a Director of Ops (Anthony Ralph in blue and white).

[meluvwrestling]

Originally Posted by ProV1

If you really feel that what OSU needs is better technical coaching and training partners, than your issue should not be with the presence of Anthony Ralph. Your issue is that they need to top grade the guys whose job it is to do that. I don’t know enough to technically critique Jaggers, Tervel, and BoJo. Maybe they are not deserving of being on the OSU staff? Maybe the RTC with Snyder and NATO is not that beneficial? I had always thought the technical coaching and the environment was a strength and not a liability.

The problem is that you're making it personal with Anthony Ralph and I'm not. I'm strictly talking about filing the position with certain requirements rather it be Ralph or John Doe. "Not deserving of being on the OSU staff", wow, I'm not saying that at all. Once again, if your going to add to a staff, add a member that can improve your greatness weakness and recruiting wasn't one of them.

[meluvwrestling]

Originally Posted by ProV1

Maybe...I know this...Penn State has the same regulation coaching make up as Ohio State. They have a head coach, 2 assistants, a volunteer assistant, and a Director of Ops (Anthony Ralph in blue and white).

I'm curious, who do you think recruits for PSU from start to finish when it comes to top recruits? Do you know anyone who's been recruited by PSU from start to finish? Have you yourself been personally involved in the recruiting by a PSU staff member?

[ProV1]

Originally Posted by meluvwrestling

I'm curious, who do you think recruits for PSU from start to finish when it comes to top recruits? Do you know anyone who's been recruited by PSU from start to finish? Have you yourself been personally involved in the recruiting by a PSU staff member?

No and I am not an expert on NCCA coaching regulations but my understanding is that programs have limits as to how a staff can be constructed. In football, it is 10 assistants. In wrestling, it is 3 with top programs having a head coach, 2 full time assistants, and a volunteer assistant. The well funded programs like Penn State, Iowa, Okie State and the like will also employ a Director of Recruiting/Operations. Go look up the staffs...they look just like OSU's. The Director of Operations does not teach wrestling technique and drill with kids. In fact, I think it is violation of rules for anybody to coach beyond the actual coaching staff. You are barking up the wrong tree. Your issue is not with the administrative staff, your issue is with the assistants.

[meluvwrestling]

Originally Posted by ProV1

No and I am not an expert on NCCA coaching regulations but my understanding is that programs have limits as to how a staff can be constructed. In football, it is 10 assistants. In wrestling, it is 3 with top programs having a head coach, 2 full time assistants, and a volunteer assistant. The well funded programs like Penn State, Iowa, Okie State and the like will also employ a Director of Recruiting/Operations. Go look up the staffs...they look just like OSU's. The Director of Operations does not teach wrestling technique and drill with kids. In fact, I think it is violation of rules for anybody to coach beyond the actual coaching staff. You are barking up the wrong tree. Your issue is not with the administrative staff, your issue is with the assistants.

I took your advice and looked up PSU, IA & MN coaching staff. Their all structured pretty much the same. I don't know what the NCAA rule is on who can work out with the team rather it be during a structure practice or OTC and I'm not going to pretend like I do.

My main issue is the mental aspect as I previously mentioned. All staff members play a role in these young men lives rather they wrestle with them on the mat or not.