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  #1  
Old 08-03-17, 10:27 AM
tkdn_wizard tkdn_wizard is offline
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More points for a longer season?

I brought this up in the league tournament points thread....

Does anyone feel we should get additional points, or at least 2 additional points, with the season being a bit longer than it has been the past few seasons?

I remember where the state meet would barely go into March, now we wrestle into the second weekend of March. The winter season is a grind, being the longest of all seasons, especially for wrestlers (weight cutting, physical demand). This isn't a bash on the length of the season and I'm not asking for it to be shortened. Just for what it is - longer season = more points?

Maybe it's just me. I was just curious what others thought about this, if they feel we need a few more points, or be able to add at least 1 tournament to the schedule.

Thoughts?....
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  #2  
Old 08-03-17, 10:38 AM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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I think they effectively gave everyone 'more points', when the cut the point value of duals from 1 to 1/2 pt. Not exactly the same thing, but generally the same affect. Teams can fill slow periods with a dual.

My two cents.
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  #3  
Old 08-03-17, 02:55 PM
CincyCoach CincyCoach is offline
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And with the addition of the State Duals series teams can potentially grab an extra handful of matches there as well. When you show up to the state tourney kids have 50+ matches on their records now. I remember when nobody outside of SMCC had over 40 matches just 10 short years ago. And in the 90's and prior most kids had 30-35 by season's end. Over the course of the past decade or so more and more has been packed into the schedule. On top of all of that, these kids now have weight restrictions to adhere to. It's a grind, for sure. In this case, I personally don't necessarily think more is better.
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  #4  
Old 08-03-17, 04:29 PM
braves1431 braves1431 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
I think they effectively gave everyone 'more points', when the cut the point value of duals from 1 to 1/2 pt. Not exactly the same thing, but generally the same affect. Teams can fill slow periods with a dual.

My two cents.
Yep!
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  #5  
Old 08-03-17, 06:22 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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I have to say that I am puzzled by the logic.
You talk about the length and difficulty of a long season, which is perfectly valid.
The stress of competing and cutting weight certainly makes it difficult.
Then in the next breath you are effectively asking for more competitions which, IMO, would make it even more difficult.
I would say that no HS wrestlers need more competitions.
The meets/tournaments need to be scheduled smarter.
When we have kids entering the State Tournament with 54-0 records I think your proposal falls apart.
Just my $.02.
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  #6  
Old 08-03-17, 07:39 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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I'm going to fall into the "less is more" camp. I think there needs to be talk of shrinking the season on either the front end, the back end, or at both ends. Our wrestling regular season is sitting at 11 weeks (at least), in some yeas 12 or even 13. And that's before the three weeks of post-season for those athletes advancing to state.

Lots of time to keep your athletes in line and focused. Lots of time for coaches to be giving up loads of time. And so forth.
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  #7  
Old 08-03-17, 08:54 PM
Coach McCoy Coach McCoy is offline
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Wrestling season is WAAAAAAAAY too long!!!! Period!!!!!!! It is a true grind on not just the kids but especially the coaches. Back when I was still coaching it seemed we were moving toward shortening the season (cut a week off the front end), then coaches complained about only having 3 weeks to prepare. This coming season is ridiculous IMO!!! Wrestling into the 2nd week of March is crazy. I will say, glad I am not coaching anymore.

Coach McCoy
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  #8  
Old 08-04-17, 06:38 AM
boats19 boats19 is offline
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There are a lot freshmen coming into high school and wrestling right away for their varsity teams. These kids go from 10 point seasons to the 20 point seasons, it is a big jump for most.
Most people that are on yappi are a big part of wrestling and sometimes forget to look at the sport from a seasonal wrestler perspective. I feel there is a percentage of kids that are lost every year due to the length and grind. Not all kids are hard core. Those are the kids we need to retain, to be able to promote and generate excitement for the sport.
For my son he was always in the mid 50's for matches at the end of districts.
He definitely always needed some down time after the season to rest, heal up and get ready for the off season.
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  #9  
Old 08-04-17, 08:51 AM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is offline
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I'm all for more points


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  #10  
Old 08-04-17, 09:39 AM
tkdn_wizard tkdn_wizard is offline
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I don't necessarily feel the 1/2 point for duals makes up for more points. There is no perfect system, but it can become difficult to stretch out 20 points across this long of a season, not to mention working around the holiday (Christmas/NYE). It's "doable" as it is now, it's just the idea of having to be choosey on which parts of the season are heavier or lighter than others. If anyone has a good system, please share.

Say you have a decent gap in between tournaments and you want to stick a dual/tri on a week where you don't have a tournament. Well if weather hits and it gets canceled, then you have a long stretch where your kids don't get any meets/matches.

I don't know what coaches would prefer, but all I'd ask for is 2 points for 1 more tournament to fill another weekend. That is at most 4-5 matches. Which I don't feel is a lot to ask for. If coaches like to schedule a bunch of dual meet tournaments and pile up 40/50 matches by state that's on them. For the average schedule, though, I feel 1 more tournament/2 points isn't asking too much.
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  #11  
Old 08-04-17, 09:56 AM
Suplexer130 Suplexer130 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdn_wizard View Post
I don't necessarily feel the 1/2 point for duals makes up for more points. There is no perfect system, but it can become difficult to stretch out 20 points across this long of a season, not to mention working around the holiday (Christmas/NYE). It's "doable" as it is now, it's just the idea of having to be choosey on which parts of the season are heavier or lighter than others. If anyone has a good system, please share.

Say you have a decent gap in between tournaments and you want to stick a dual/tri on a week where you don't have a tournament. Well if weather hits and it gets canceled, then you have a long stretch where your kids don't get any meets/matches.

I don't know what coaches would prefer, but all I'd ask for is 2 points for 1 more tournament to fill another weekend. That is at most 4-5 matches. Which I don't feel is a lot to ask for. If coaches like to schedule a bunch of dual meet tournaments and pile up 40/50 matches by state that's on them. For the average schedule, though, I feel 1 more tournament/2 points isn't asking too much.
We used 19 points last year and our guys ranged from 30-45 matches based on how good they were and how late they made it into the year. We wrestled in no dual tournaments, but did do two individual pool tournaments. I keep the extra point in case something comes up and I feel like we need to add a late year dual or two as a filler. This year we will only be using 18 points with the new .5 dual accounting method.

I personally schedule to have us compete heavily early on as a trial by fire approach. We then pull back in early January and then ramp back up towards the end of January into February. I use the mid year lull to fix things and give the kids a couple days of practice, because at that point a lot are hitting a wall.

I don't think we need more points. The answer to everything isn't always more, and I think that applies to kids and matches during the season.
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  #12  
Old 08-04-17, 12:10 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdn_wizard View Post
I don't necessarily feel the 1/2 point for duals makes up for more points. .
Mathematically it does.
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  #13  
Old 08-04-17, 08:47 PM
CoachCoffey CoachCoffey is offline
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Looking at Point totals from all angles

I personally don’t feel strongly either way. However, there is a strong argument for more points in the season.

There is more than one school of thought to scheduling and programs have been successful with several different models.

Some, like to try and ‘maxout their point values” Our program is in this camp, we do so mostly because we don’t wrestle live in practice we maybe do an hour of live A YEAR and for a few other reasons. (Again this doesn’t make us right)

Some “bang a lot in practice and look for “quality” or “experience” over quantity. Several programs, (likely more than the above mentioned model) have done very well using this approach.

The mathematical, regular season, total match MAXIMUM, is 60 matches
05 3-point tournaments netting 10 matches per wrestler (50 matches)
10 1/2Point Duals netting 1 match per wrestler. (10 matches)
The realistic, mathematical, regular season, total match MINIMUM , is 20 matches
04 3-point tournaments netting 2 matches per wrestler (08 matches)
02 2-point tournaments netting 2 matches per wrestler (04 matches)
08 1/2Point Duals netting 1 match per wrestler. (08 matches)
Many other states allow MUCH MORE Wrestling than the OHSAA does.

The beauty, in my opinion, of our system is that Individual Programs may decided how to use the points that are allotted to them.

In other words, more points may not necessarily mean more matches. More points would necessarily mean more flexibility for programs to make a schedule they feel suits their philosophy best.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-17, 08:10 AM
scbuckeye99 scbuckeye99 is offline
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CoachCoffey,

South Carolina, where I coach allows for 16 DATES. A one day dual is a date, a two day individual tournament counts as ONE date. The better phrase may be you're allowed 16 "events". Not sure if its better or worse.
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  #15  
Old 08-06-17, 09:01 AM
jmog jmog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boats19 View Post
There are a lot freshmen coming into high school and wrestling right away for their varsity teams. These kids go from 10 point seasons to the 20 point seasons, it is a big jump for most.
Most people that are on yappi are a big part of wrestling and sometimes forget to look at the sport from a seasonal wrestler perspective. I feel there is a percentage of kids that are lost every year due to the length and grind. Not all kids are hard core. Those are the kids we need to retain, to be able to promote and generate excitement for the sport.
For my son he was always in the mid 50's for matches at the end of districts.
He definitely always needed some down time after the season to rest, heal up and get ready for the off season.
Junior High is 17 points. So going up to 20 isn't a big difference. The big thing for 9th graders is really having to wrestle seniors most of the season and 2 min periods.
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  #16  
Old 08-06-17, 09:54 AM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is offline
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If points were unlimited, coaches and schools would do what is best for their program in the end.


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  #17  
Old 08-06-17, 12:02 PM
cosh wrestling dad cosh wrestling dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmog View Post
Junior High is 17 points. So going up to 20 isn't a big difference. The big thing for 9th graders is really having to wrestle seniors most of the season and 2 min periods.
Any freshman that starts varsity(unless a coach is throwing a NEW gut to the wolves) is already doing opens and other tourneys so points in Jr high are irrelevant. I don't feel strongly either way . But I can see where more points could increase injury in HS.
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  #18  
Old 08-06-17, 04:45 PM
CoachCoffey CoachCoffey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scbuckeye99 View Post
CoachCoffey,

South Carolina, where I coach allows for 16 DATES. A one day dual is a date, a two day individual tournament counts as ONE date. The better phrase may be you're allowed 16 "events". Not sure if its better or worse.
Perfect example! In theory South Carolina allows for 160 regular season matches on the season.
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  #19  
Old 08-07-17, 10:47 AM
NEohiowrestler NEohiowrestler is offline
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More points would diminish some prior school and state records. (Most wins, most pins, etc etc)
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