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  #1  
Old 06-16-05, 07:07 AM
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top ten greater cincinnati? (records)

anyone have any interst in helping set up a data base for the top ten all time times out of cincinnati in each event?
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  #2  
Old 06-17-05, 08:09 PM
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I can probably be of some assistance - I have a ton of meet results going all the back to the 20s. However, school begins next Monday and I don't have a lot of time. I would be a good auditor for such a project, as would the Masterstatman.
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Old 06-17-05, 08:10 PM
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So, are we going to include Middletown (ha-ha)?
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Old 06-17-05, 10:11 PM
lightyears2010 lightyears2010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
So, are we going to include Middletown (ha-ha)?
Only if you want the fastest times and longest distances in each event...
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Old 06-18-05, 11:07 AM
moemancc moemancc is offline
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Interesting you might say that. Because they actually were part of cinci records until recently. Perhaps those that occured before the switch would count?
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  #6  
Old 06-18-05, 11:08 AM
moemancc moemancc is offline
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By the way I wouldn't mind trying to figure that out myself. I'll give it a go.
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  #7  
Old 06-18-05, 12:24 PM
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fair question about middletown. when they meet the criteria for cincy coaches (gmc and cincy district) then there records will count. or we could count every team from a cincy league (gcl, qcc/swopl, favc, gmc, chl etc...
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Old 06-18-05, 12:25 PM
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people that have school records please pm me and ill give you my email address
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  #9  
Old 06-20-05, 01:02 AM
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Kurt Francis was doing an all time top 25 for Cincy in 1995 but never finished it. I know he got stuff from Andy Wolf and Steve Spencer. I have an all time top 25 for La Salle I could email you.
skins, let make it 25 deep. I've been toying with this idea for years. I had about ten events completed before my computer crashed and I lost it all. I was so ticked off I never started the project over.

Here are my questions:

What about yards? I am against converting times. I was going to maintain separate lists.

What about fully automatic times? Should they be the only ones considered. I say we need separate lists for FAT and hand held times. Should you consider dual or tri-meets where the timers are questionable?

We need to do three top tens:

One for yards.
One for hand held times.
One for fully automatic times.
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  #10  
Old 06-20-05, 01:58 AM
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Here is a tentative FAT 1600 meter run top ten. FAT wasn't used until 1981. Updates are requested. Mile times have been converted to 1600 times. Hand held times have been converted to FAT.

1600 Meter Run

1. 4:05.94 2000 Mason Ward Colerain Golden West Inv. 4th
2. 4:07.23 1969 Reggie McAfee Courter Tech. State 1st
3. 4:10.06 2000 Jerry Claunch Lakota East Regional 2nd
4. 4:10.14 1994 Doug Bockenstette La Salle State 1st
5. 4:11.36 2000 Steve Padgett La Salle Regional 3rd
6. 4:11.79 1985 Jim Hedrick Lakota State 2nd
7. 4:12.62 1998 Adam Thomas Fairfield Regional 1st
8. 4:13.34 1997 Earnie Ziegler Harrison District 1st
9. 4:13.84 2000 Allen Bader La Salle Regional 4th
10. 4:14.04 1988 Ritchie Shepard Milford State 2nd

It's pretty shocking that St. Xavier and Elder can't put anyone on an all time top ten list in a distance event. La Salle, btw, has three, more than any other school on the list.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 03:59 PM..
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  #11  
Old 06-20-05, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancermania
Kurt Francis was doing an all time top 25 for Cincy in 1995 but never finished it. I know he got stuff from Andy Wolf and Steve Spencer. I have an all time top 25 for La Salle I could email you.
skins, let make it 25 deep. I've been toying with this idea for years. I had about ten events completed before my computer crashed and I lost it all. I was so ticked off I never started the project over.

Here are my questions:

What about yards? I am against converting times. I was going to maintain separate lists.

What about fully automatic times? Should they be the only ones considered. I say we need separate lists for FAT and hand held times. Should you consider dual or tri-meets where the timers are questionable?

We need to do three top tens:

One for yards.
One for hand held times.
One for fully automatic times.
While the conversion and hand-held versus automatic are issues, I am fully against separate lists. Converting times does not cheapen a list in my opinion. My biggest issue would be something like the 100 where, every year, kids run 10.5's and 10.6's during the season and most of them couldn't break 11.00 FAT if their life depended on it. I will side with the majority, but I feel the number of conversions will be minimal for an average events top 25.
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  #12  
Old 06-20-05, 06:15 AM
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here is how we will do it. meters and yards records (less runners for yards), we will convert the hand held times through the 400 and down. i could go for the top 25, that shouldnt be two big of a file for excell or spreadsheet.
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  #13  
Old 06-20-05, 10:12 AM
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How detailed are we going to get?

Do we want just name, performance, and year or date and/or meet also?

For relays, do we want to list individual team members?

Finally, is the state meet the cutoff for performances date-wise (no post-season meets)?
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  #14  
Old 06-20-05, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancermania
Here is a tentative FAT 1600 meter run top ten taken only from D1 state meet results. FAT wasn't used until 1981. Updates are requested.

1600 Meter Run FAT
1. 4:10.14 1994 Doug Bockenstette La Salle State 1st
2. 4:11.73 2000 Mason Ward Colerain State 1st
3. 4:11.79 1985 Jim Hedrick Lakota State 2nd
4. 4:14.04 1988 Ritchie Shepard Milford State 2nd
5. 4:14.37 2002 Allen Bader La Salle State 1st
6. 4:14.53 1998 Adam Thomas Fairfield State 2nd
7. 4:14.85 2000 Jerry Claunch Lakota East State 2nd
8. 4:14.86 1987 Shawn Profitt Anderson State 2nd
9. 4:15.15 1984 Jeff Justice Anderson State 5th
10.4:15.33 1995 Dean Fulmer La Salle State 1st
The top four times in the Dayton regional in 2000 for the 1600 would improve at least 2 times above and add another couple of individuals (I believe).
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  #15  
Old 06-20-05, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
The top four times in the Dayton regional in 2000 for the 1600 would improve at least 2 times above and add another couple of individuals (I believe).
Thanks Seek Up. I updated with regional times. Times were updated for Ward, Bader, and Claunch. Also Padgett was added bumping off Fulmer. Also Adam Thomas had a better regional time in 1998 than his state time.
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  #16  
Old 06-20-05, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
While the conversion and hand-held versus automatic are issues, I am fully against separate lists. Converting times does not cheapen a list in my opinion. My biggest issue would be something like the 100 where, every year, kids run 10.5's and 10.6's during the season and most of them couldn't break 11.00 FAT if their life depended on it. I will side with the majority, but I feel the number of conversions will be minimal for an average events top 25.
Mike Page, La Salle's head coach to win its first GCL title in 1980 was a math major. He told me converting times was a proportion problem. For fun, let's convert Reggie's mile time to 1600 meters.

First, we convert both the mile and the 1600 to a common demonminator like inches. The mile is 63360 inches while the 1600 is 62976 inches. Here is the formula:

63360 over 248.5 seconds (4:08:5) = 62976 over X with X being the 1600 time.
63360x = 15649536
X = 246.99393 seconds
To concert this hand held time to FAT you have to add .24 seconds
That would give Reggie a time of 4:07.23
I have added that time to the list above.
Seek Up, can you think of any other good mile times over the years that would make this top ten.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 12:55 PM..
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  #17  
Old 06-20-05, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by skins99
here is how we will do it. meters and yards records (less runners for yards), we will convert the hand held times through the 400 and down. i could go for the top 25, that shouldnt be two big of a file for excell or spreadsheet.
skins, let's start with a top ten first, one list converting yard times to meters and hand held to fully automatic. I have done that with the 1600 list above.
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  #18  
Old 06-20-05, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
I can probably be of some assistance - I have a ton of meet results going all the back to the 20s. However, school begins next Monday and I don't have a lot of time. I would be a good auditor for such a project, as would the Masterstatman.
Dennis Lunne's time in the mile at the regional in 1970 was 4:16.0. Converting that to the 1600 gives him a time of 4:14.45. Converting that to FAT adds 0.24 to the hand-held time giving him a final converstion of 4:14.69. I have added that to the list above.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 02:38 PM..
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  #19  
Old 06-20-05, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
The top four times in the Dayton regional in 2000 for the 1600 would improve at least 2 times above and add another couple of individuals (I believe).
I found Mason Ward's mile time at the Golden West Invitational in 2000. He ran 4:07.2 hand held time in the mile run. That converts to 4:05.94 to 1600 FAT. I have put that one on the 1600 meters list.
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  #20  
Old 06-20-05, 03:09 PM
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I searched my memory bank and a light came on. The 1997 district meet at Hamilton was a barn burner, probably the greatest 1600 ever in Cincinnati.

Earnie Ziegler of Harrison ran 4:13.1
Adam Thomas of Fairfield went 4:13.3

I have edited my list above to reflect these great times adding 0.24 to the hand held times for the FAT list.

Earnie Ziegler now bumps off Dennis Lunne's 4:16.0 regional mile.
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  #21  
Old 06-20-05, 04:53 PM
moemancc moemancc is offline
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I can help you with Moeller records, and I might be able to get 3 deep on some of those.
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  #22  
Old 06-20-05, 06:03 PM
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skins99, Seek Up, Lancermania, and moemanxc are hereby on the Committee to determine the criteria and to post the Cincinnati top ten. skins99, can you sticky the list so all can see it? Start with the 1600 meter top ten which seems to be pretty accurate as of now. More imput is requested. I've just started working on the 3200 meter run now.
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  #23  
Old 06-20-05, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lancermania
Mike Page, La Salle's head coach to win its first GCL title in 1980 was a math major. He told me converting times was a proportion problem. For fun, let's convert Reggie's mile time to 1600 meters.

First, we convert both the mile and the 1600 to a common demonminator like inches. The mile is 63360 inches while the 1600 is 62976 inches. Here is the formula:

63360 over 248.5 seconds (4:08:5) = 62976 over X with X being the 1600 time.
63360x = 15649536
X = 246.99393 seconds
To concert this hand held time to FAT you have to add .24 seconds
That would give Reggie a time of 4:07.23
I have added that time to the list above.
Seek Up, can you think of any other good mile times over the years that would make this top ten.
Mike Maynard of Greenhills ran a 4:15.5 at the Volunteer Classic in 1978. Off the top of my head I can't recall anyone else who will crack this list with a converted mile time. Don't forget Chris Webb's (Oxford Talawanda) 4:14.23 from state in 1986!!
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  #24  
Old 06-20-05, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
Mike Maynard of Greenhills ran a 4:15.5 at the Volunteer Classic in 1978. Off the top of my head I can't recall anyone else who will crack this list with a converted mile time. Don't forget Chris Webb's (Oxford Talawanda) 4:14.23 from state in 1986!!
Since you mentioned Talawanda...wouldn't Rhodenbaugh(sp) from a few years ago easily make the list?
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Old 06-20-05, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
Mike Maynard of Greenhills ran a 4:15.5 at the Volunteer Classic in 1978. Off the top of my head I can't recall anyone else who will crack this list with a converted mile time. Don't forget Chris Webb's (Oxford Talawanda) 4:14.23 from state in 1986!!
I intentionaly left off Jeff See, Chris Webb and Jesse Rhodenbaugh because both schools fail to meet two of the three criteria set by the SWOTCCCA. Talawanda goes to a Cincinnati district meet but don't fall within the 30 mile limit nor are they in a league of primarily Cincinnati area schools. They are in the Mid Miami league. Thus, like Middletown, they fail to meet two of the three criteria set by the coaches.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 07:13 PM..
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Old 06-20-05, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by impartial observer
Since you mentioned Talawanda...wouldn't Rhodenbaugh(sp) from a few years ago easily make the list?
Impartial observer, you are hereby selected as a fifth member of the Committee to select the top ten.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 06:55 PM..
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  #27  
Old 06-20-05, 06:54 PM
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Committee members, here are the issues you need to weigh in on.

1. Lancermania is following skins99 suggestion of a top ten and doing a top ten list of metric events with FAT timing. I say we start with a more doable list of ten just to get something up and running. Any other Committee members feel strongly about not starting with a top ten.

2. Lancermania says let's do what Seek Up has suggested and convert yard times to metric times. As I mentioned previously, it is a proportion problem not that difficult to convert. What say you all on point #2.

3. Lancermania wants to maintain the list in fully automatic times since that is the preferred method of timing now. Therefore we have to add 0.24 seconds to all hand held times before they go on the list. What say you, committe members about #3.

4. Lancermania wants to keep the list to schools which meet the criteria set by the Southwest Ohio Track and Cross Country Coaches Association in order to be considered for Cincinnati area records. That excludes both Middletown and Talawanda. What say you members on #4?

5. Lancermania only wants to count the post-season meets sanctioned by the NFSHSAA (National Federation of State High School Athletic Associations) of which Ohio is a member. Currently this involves the Midwest Meet of Champions, The National Scholastic Outdoor Championships, and the Golden West Invitational. What say you, Committe members on #5.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 09:40 PM..
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  #28  
Old 06-20-05, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
Mike Maynard of Greenhills ran a 4:15.5 at the Volunteer Classic in 1978. Off the top of my head I can't recall anyone else who will crack this list with a converted mile time. Don't forget Chris Webb's (Oxford Talawanda) 4:14.23 from state in 1986!!
Chris Webb went 4:14.23 in 1986 for 4th place at state. Since 10th place on our list is now 4:14.04, Webb would not make it anyway but Rhodenbaugh would but is ineligible in my book.
Jesse Rhodenbaugh went 4:08.70 in 2001.

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-20-05 at 07:12 PM..
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  #29  
Old 06-20-05, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Seek Up
Mike Maynard of Greenhills ran a 4:15.5 at the Volunteer Classic in 1978. Off the top of my head I can't recall anyone else who will crack this list with a converted mile time. Don't forget Chris Webb's (Oxford Talawanda) 4:14.23 from state in 1986!!
Keep in mind that our tenth place on the list is now 4:14.04.
Maynard's 4:15.5 converts to 4:13.95 which goes to 4:14.19 converted to FAT, not good enough to edge out Ritchie Shepard of Milford at 4:14.04.
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Old 06-20-05, 08:41 PM
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Here is the 3200 meter run. Updates, corrections?

3200 Meter Run FAT
1. 8:54.90 2000 Steve Padgett La Salle Golden West 3rd
2. 9:03.25 1994 Doug Bockenstette La Salle Midwest MOC 1st
3. 9:04.46 1995 Dean Fulmer La Salle NSOC 6th
4. 9:05.33 2002 Allen Bader La Salle Roosevelt 3rd
5. 9:11.58 1969 Reggie McAfee Courter Tech. Ohio Track Classic 1st
6. 9:11.98 1970 Denis Lunne St. Xavier Miami Relays 1st
7. 9:12.54 1999 Brian Godsey Lakota East Regional 2nd
8. 9:15.39 1973 Dave Stanton Princeton Regional 2nd
9. 9:16.74 1987 John Sence Milford State 2nd
10. 9:18.04 2005 Luke Beuerlein Moeller Jesse Owens Classic 2nd


I can't believe La Salle has the top four times on this list. Wow!!!

Last edited by Lancermania; 06-21-05 at 12:40 AM..
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