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  #1  
Old 07-12-17, 10:22 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Converting yards times to meters times should it be done?

After I updated the all time top 25 lists for greater Cincinnati area athletes, I got several queries from coaches about converting yard time to meter times on the lists. I am against it and every governing body for track & field is also: IAAF, TFAUSA, NCAA, and NFSHSAA. There are even some coaches who use converted yard times for their school records of today in meters.

I am 100% against using converted times for records. A record is an exact time at an exact distance. Any conversion is speculation about what the time might have been for the shorter distance.

A veteran coach I know and respect told me he has heard the arguments both for and against. His biggest concern is that without conversion on a list, many great performances done in yards fall off the cliff. A legitimate concern and one that I take care of by keeping top 25 lists separately in both.

Here is the greater Cincinnati area top 25 in meters:
http://www.swotccca.com/Documents/Ci...%20Events4.pdf

Here is the list in yards: http://www.swotccca.com/Documents/Ci...%20Events7.pdf

What say you all? Agree or disagree? Please let me know if you have corrections or additions to these lists.

Last edited by Lancermania; 07-12-17 at 10:33 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-14-17, 11:38 PM
State The Obvious State The Obvious is offline
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I agree completely, for all the reasons you stated. I like it when two sets of records are kept. One list for yards and another for meters. IMO, it's the only legitimate way to go. I also love the fact that you count performances from post-season meets. Those meets are part of the season. In many cases, they are the meets the athletes point for as much as they point for the State Meet. . Why not count a performance from your sport's national championship meet? There is no logical reason not to.

Last edited by State The Obvious; 07-14-17 at 11:51 PM..
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Old 07-15-17, 12:53 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Converting yards times to meters times should it be done?

I agree. For our top five all time marks it has become mostly moot. All the marks but two are metric. Our school record in the 3200 was set in a two mile (1993), but a 3200 split was taken and that's what we use as the 3200 record and what is on our record board. We have a miler with a mile time that converts to a slightly faster 1600 than his best 1600 time which is on our list. Since both times are in the same position on the list we use the 1600 time. I do have a list of the yards denominated records. It is incomplete because it only contains performances that were on the top five all time lists or listed someplace else when I took over.
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Old 07-15-17, 05:58 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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Although I agree that it is "unreliable" to convert and 100 yards to 100 meters,,, (or 220y to 200m, 440, 880 etc.) most of those older
english distance events were "hand-timed" so converting them is probably no worse than using hand timed marks for the metric distanced events.
This bothers me just as much as converted marks. as the standard +.24 after rounding then up to the 10th of a second is just for expert timers. It is probably .4 or more for most. For example:
Our school record for the girls 200 was 26.2 (1982)... we had a girl run 26.33 FAT (1996) and she became the record holder (with out question to anyone except the 26.2 girl or her folks). Then another girls ran 25.91 FAT (1999) and 25.7h. The 25.91 IS the fastest that any girl ran for us and is the school record. #2 is the 26.33, then another girl ran 26.45 (2003); then a 26.1 in 2006 and then the 26.2. Another girl ran 26.6 in a dual in 1994 and a 26.86 FAT with her best race ever...and she is about equal with the 26.2 girl as both were State qualifiers in DIII/A with those times* as both were 2nd at the Regional level (district level in 82). So our list in the 200 meters is:
#1 - 25.91 FAT (1999)
#2 - 26.33 FAT (1996)
#3 - 26.45 FAT (2003)
#4 - 26.1 h (2006)
#5a - *26.2 h (1982)
#5b - 26.6h - *26.86 FAT (1994)

I used the 200 because there is only a couple feet difference between a 220y and a 200 m and all of our top 5 were with meters

In short, If you are going to used hand-timed marks and add .24 then converting yard to meters is no more unreliable in events up to 880/800...IMO
...but my opinion is not worth much.
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Old 07-15-17, 06:16 PM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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BTW - Lancer, your work is outstanding.... manual times/wind aided/ - many do not understand the effects of such things. Another thing I have seen on some records is not taking into account for the move from 8lb to 4K in the girls shot put. I also saw on a school record list was a 300IM hurdle mark from 1982 and bet it was done over low (30") hurdles.

I also realize that anyone trying to compile such a list is really a fan of the sport and with that passion, can only be good for Track and Field.
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Old 07-15-17, 06:54 PM
madman madman is offline
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Very few meets have wind gauges, which puts the legitimacy of most high school sprint times in question to begin with. The problem is that if you restricted your school records to only those times for which a wind gauge was present, most results couldn't even be considered.
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Old 07-15-17, 08:52 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ENA2 View Post
BTW - Lancer, your work is outstanding.... manual times/wind aided/ - many do not understand the effects of such things. Another thing I have seen on some records is not taking into account for the move from 8lb to 4K in the girls shot put. I also saw on a school record list was a 300IM hurdle mark from 1982 and bet it was done over low (30") hurdles.

I also realize that anyone trying to compile such a list is really a fan of the sport and with that passion, can only be good for Track and Field.
I second that.

It's a thankless job. Sometimes, it even ends up being worse than thankless when you do it right and uncover some new data that causes you to have to make changes to your record board.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 07-16-17 at 10:00 AM..
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  #8  
Old 07-16-17, 04:00 AM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
Very few meets have wind gauges, which puts the legitimacy of most high school sprint times in question to begin with. The problem is that if you restricted your school records to only those times for which a wind gauge was present, most results couldn't even be considered.
I have used state and regional sprint times without a wind reading on my meters lists because I know they used wind gauges at the meets and when it was over the allowable 2.0, a "w" was put behind the time, but the actual wind reading was not listed in the results which is why I show nwi (no wind information).
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Old 07-16-17, 02:24 PM
madman madman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
I have used state and regional sprint times without a wind reading on my meters lists because I know they used wind gauges at the meets and when it was over the allowable 2.0, a "w" was put behind the time, but the actual wind reading was not listed in the results which is why I show nwi (no wind information).
What about invitationals? I have only been to a handful of high school invitationals in 30+ years that used wind gauges. I have never been convinced they have had those set up properly.
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Old 07-16-17, 07:27 PM
fanofrunning fanofrunning is offline
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Lancermania, many thanks to you for the effort you expend maintaining and updating these lists. I, too like the separate lists. Full disclosure, I'm on one of those lists. It would be weird to see a converted time.
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Old 07-17-17, 06:04 PM
OVTC OVTC is offline
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I agree wholeheartedly I do not believe that the times should be converted
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