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  #61  
Old 07-06-17, 08:33 AM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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A couple big names with connections to tOSU:

Lopez Lomong - Olympian, career is winding down, brother was a frosh 800 guy at OSU this year. Zero coaching / recruiting experience that I am aware of.

Cory Leslie - OSU grad, Ohio 800 record holder, young, no experience, more connected to the Robert Gary / Furman Elite group than the Karen Dennis team.

I don't expect either of these to be the next coach. But we are over a week into the search (which started very late) with almost zero speculation. I'm not sure any self-respecting current D3 coach would leave his program in mid-July.

If I were Coach Dennis, I would want someone that could bring in and work with Ohio talent. With a few systematically used partial scholarships, OSU should be able to retain 2-3 All Ohio (maybe not D1 champs) guys each season that can be sold on the idea of staying close to home, competing in the B1G, being on a track TEAM, and bringing respect to the OSU program.
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  #62  
Old 07-06-17, 09:03 AM
bleuandgold bleuandgold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinL View Post
A couple big names with connections to tOSU:

Lopez Lomong - Olympian, career is winding down, brother was a frosh 800 guy at OSU this year. Zero coaching / recruiting experience that I am aware of.

Cory Leslie - OSU grad, Ohio 800 record holder, young, no experience, more connected to the Robert Gary / Furman Elite group than the Karen Dennis team.

I don't expect either of these to be the next coach. But we are over a week into the search (which started very late) with almost zero speculation. I'm not sure any self-respecting current D3 coach would leave his program in mid-July.

If I were Coach Dennis, I would want someone that could bring in and work with Ohio talent. With a few systematically used partial scholarships, OSU should be able to retain 2-3 All Ohio (maybe not D1 champs) guys each season that can be sold on the idea of staying close to home, competing in the B1G, being on a track TEAM, and bringing respect to the OSU program.
Lopez Lomong's brother is supposedly unhappy with the team/training. I'm sure he would stick around however if his brother was the coach. But sources tell me that he is just about ready to transfer.

Would love Cory Leslie as the next coach. OSU needs someone young and energetic who has made a bit of a name for himself. By the end of Brice's tenure at OSU, Karen gave him little to no money to work with (sources!). A young and energetic coach could convince a top Ohioan to stay in state, and maybe pull a couple of other diamonds in the rough (guys that have run 2nd tier times, but been unchallenged, as mentioned in an earlier post). Of course it would still take time, but Leslie being an OSU grad would seemingly be the perfect fit.

Let's just be honest and come out and say it too, Karen Dennis, and the administration could not care less about distance running. Sources say that she has already hired another sprints coach to fill some of the money that was opened up by Allen/Vergote leaving, so its not like OSU will be able to convince someone just on money to come to Columbus. TJ Shelton probably doesn't know how many laps are in a 800m, and Gene Smith would only be concerned about the distance runners if one won a national championship that added to his bonus salary.

I hope Cory Leslie becomes distance coach, but I agree with KevinL and don't expect it. I would expect it to be some no name assistant from a random D1/D2 school, or a middling D3 coach who tries to turn the program into a contender the lazy way... Getting 15 9:30 guys, running them all into the ground, and seeing who survives after 2 years. The next coach has to be energetic, and a relentless recruiter. It is my belief that every single kid in the state of Ohio at one point in their lives imagines themselves playing football for OSU. Tapping into that feeling and running with it could convince more kids to take a "hometown discount" to stay in-state. Energy, energy, and energy is what the next coach needs.
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  #63  
Old 07-06-17, 10:43 AM
cincyrunner cincyrunner is offline
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Agree that Leslie could be perfect fit and think he would be someone that could shift the culture and direction of distance side of things. Doubt he's willing to leave George Mason after 1 year, especially after looking up the success they had on distance side of things.
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  #64  
Old 07-06-17, 10:52 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Lee LaBadie? He's probably too close to the end of his coaching career and would need too much money to leave Akron. In another 3 years or so tOSU would probably be looking for another coach. Just a thought.
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  #65  
Old 07-06-17, 11:08 AM
bleuandgold bleuandgold is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Lee LaBadie? He's probably too close to the end of his coaching career and would need too much money to leave Akron. In another 3 years or so tOSU would probably be looking for another coach. Just a thought.
It would be a coup if they hired him, but I agree it's probably just too unlikely. Especially with Murphy's success at Akron the last few years, I doubt Labadie would ever leave Akron. Sad (from an OSU perspective) that Labadie would be going to a less prestigious job (currently) if he left Akron to go to OSU.

Brian Olinger could be another name? OSU guy, Robert Gary assistant, certainly a name in the running community around Ohio... Of course, his involvement with the Robert Gary program could be perceived as a negative. This is of course if he even wants the job.
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  #66  
Old 07-06-17, 11:12 AM
coachwhitman coachwhitman is offline
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It starts at the top

Ohio State's issue as far as XC/Distance events go is that the Director does not value distance running and puts very little resources in those events. You can be the most energetic, knowledgeable and well connected coach there is, but one of the most key aspects of recruiting in D1 and D2 is resources. You need a great salary and scholarship resources to attract a top notch coach. It's also vital to have a culture that values and cultivates CC and distance runners. On the men's side, it's a far bigger challenge with far fewer allowable scholarships. It helps some top programs in the SEC and Pac 12 to have football players who are also on the track roster. I don't see that nearly as often as OSU even though Urban Meyer clearly values multisport athletes.

If you had upper B1G level XC programs at OSU, they would be able to attract their share of Ohio's better runners. Unfortunately, the entire state is leary of sending kids there because, quite frankly, it's been a distance runner's graveyard. Kids just don't develop on the national stage. While that would never be acceptable in FB, baseball, wrestling, volleyball and now hoops... it's all too acceptable to the upper administration. Coach Dennis was recently extended contractually (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/spo...052317aaa.html) which is a clear sign that admin is way ok with the status quo. Not only is OSU a distance runner's graveyard, but it's a distance coaches graveyard as well.

Coach Gary dug his own hole and Coach Vergote chose her personal life over coaching and now Coach Allen has been shown the door. I get the impression that if Karen Dennis could get away with making the distance coaching position a graduate assistant level job, she would seriously consider that approach. Think about this aspect: OSU does not have a dedicated cross country course. Here you have a university with more money than God and no home CC course. That says a lot about priorities. How many other schools in the B1G lack a dedicated home CC course (besides maybe Rutgers)? It's not like central Ohio lacks rural areas which could easily be developed into a great course. (think LaVerne-Gibson type of facility and I know that ISU isn't a B1G school).

What it boils down to is that OSU has never truly valued distance running. How is it that Tom Byers just now gets into their athletic HOF? He was one of the best milers in the world for a few years in the 80s, but just now gets in? That is symptomatic of the lack of culture. We all know that football rules the roost in Columbus...that's a given which we can all live with in Ohio. But, it seems to me that CC/Track and field is missing out by not taking a balanced team approach and investing in cross country. Great runners leave Ohio each year to go to other states and excel. By recruiting Ohio AND the nation well, OSU could be a regular contender for NCAA championships. But, it would take resources in salaries for all coaches on staff and facilities (CC course and a much better indoor facility (OSU's indoor facility is embarrassingly bad), but most importantly an entire overhaul of the team culture. We should all expect better and let admin know it when our top kids are put off as they have been for quite some time.
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  #67  
Old 07-06-17, 11:25 AM
bleuandgold bleuandgold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachwhitman View Post
Ohio State's issue as far as XC/Distance events go is that the Director does not value distance running and puts very little resources in those events. You can be the most energetic, knowledgeable and well connected coach there is, but one of the most key aspects of recruiting in D1 and D2 is resources. You need a great salary and scholarship resources to attract a top notch coach. It's also vital to have a culture that values and cultivates CC and distance runners. On the men's side, it's a far bigger challenge with far fewer allowable scholarships. It helps some top programs in the SEC and Pac 12 to have football players who are also on the track roster. I don't see that nearly as often as OSU even though Urban Meyer clearly values multisport athletes.

If you had upper B1G level XC programs at OSU, they would be able to attract their share of Ohio's better runners. Unfortunately, the entire state is leary of sending kids there because, quite frankly, it's been a distance runner's graveyard. Kids just don't develop on the national stage. While that would never be acceptable in FB, baseball, wrestling, volleyball and now hoops... it's all too acceptable to the upper administration. Coach Dennis was recently extended contractually (http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/spo...052317aaa.html) which is a clear sign that admin is way ok with the status quo. Not only is OSU a distance runner's graveyard, but it's a distance coaches graveyard as well.

Coach Gary dug his own hole and Coach Vergote chose her personal life over coaching and now Coach Allen has been shown the door. I get the impression that if Karen Dennis could get away with making the distance coaching position a graduate assistant level job, she would seriously consider that approach. Think about this aspect: OSU does not have a dedicated cross country course. Here you have a university with more money than God and no home CC course. That says a lot about priorities. How many other schools in the B1G lack a dedicated home CC course (besides maybe Rutgers)? It's not like central Ohio lacks rural areas which could easily be developed into a great course. (think LaVerne-Gibson type of facility and I know that ISU isn't a B1G school).

What it boils down to is that OSU has never truly valued distance running. How is it that Tom Byers just now gets into their athletic HOF? He was one of the best milers in the world for a few years in the 80s, but just now gets in? That is symptomatic of the lack of culture. We all know that football rules the roost in Columbus...that's a given which we can all live with in Ohio. But, it seems to me that CC/Track and field is missing out by not taking a balanced team approach and investing in cross country. Great runners leave Ohio each year to go to other states and excel. By recruiting Ohio AND the nation well, OSU could be a regular contender for NCAA championships. But, it would take resources in salaries for all coaches on staff and facilities (CC course and a much better indoor facility (OSU's indoor facility is embarrassingly bad), but most importantly an entire overhaul of the team culture. We should all expect better and let admin know it when our top kids are put off as they have been for quite some time.
Hit the nail on the head. As I mentioned in an earlier post, Gene Smith could not care less about the program. He only started caring about wrestling once they started helping his bonus check. I could write a book of all of the things that I've seen/heard about the program in the last 6 years.

Here's one fun anecdote....

A friend close to the program told me that Karen was rumored to be the only coach that didn't spend the entire budget allotted to the team. Now, if anyone is a fan of "The Office" it should remind you of the episode titled "The Surplus" when Michael uses the surplus to give himself a bonus instead of putting it back into the office.

*Edit* coachwhitman is also right in his assumption that Karen wants just a volunteer assistant. There have been rumblings around the team that this is exactly what will happen

*Edit Pt. 2* This year on a trip to FL for a meet, the sprinters/women's distance runners stayed in a nicer hotel, closer to the beach/meet, and had flights that left later/arrived earlier than the men's distance team. Southwest v Delta too I believe.

*Edit Pt. 3* Under Robert Gary the men received 7 pairs of trainers per year. Ed Bethea it was 6. Under Karen it has been cut to 3.
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  #68  
Old 07-06-17, 06:32 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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I was getting ready to put this in another thread, but was it just me or did anyone else not feel real welcome at OSU for the state track meet this year? I usually see more out of state coaches than I do OSU coaches, but everything seemed very unwelcoming this year, from the absence of stands on the backstretch to the Red Coats being more rude than ever to the parking attendants being even nastier than usual. I've never come away with a warm fuzzy feeling any year, but this year seemed even worse than usual. Not sure any kid comes out of there thinking, "I have to come here." I really feel like OSU could care less that the state meet is there and the states top performers are right there at their facility. Would not break my heart to see it go somewhere else.

I also do not really care if OSU ever turns the distance program around. I would be just as happy if it were Kent or Akron or any other school being the top program in the state. OSU does not go out of it's way at all to ingratiate itself to Ohio kids, coaches and parents. I went to BGSU, so I hate Miami and hope they stink forever and I can't stand Ohio or BGSU anymore. So any school but those 3.
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  #69  
Old 07-06-17, 08:02 PM
CoventryTrackXCguy CoventryTrackXCguy is offline
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So bitter, lol.
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  #70  
Old 07-06-17, 11:27 PM
coachwhitman coachwhitman is offline
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Ha! I'm usually very grumpy about the same items, but this year was different. Due to the planned demolition of the married student housing next to the track, they let us put our camps on the big grassy strip by the apartments for the first time in years. That made up for our usual area just outside the gate by the athletes check in being roped off for the construction. So, there we were camping peacefully on Ashtabula (where all the cool kids grew up) street and of course, Woodridge had to copy our move, but that's because two Kent State minds had the best ideas...

The people in OSU event staff were just horrible. The worst was the guy who was policing the area where people were taking pics of the kids on the podium. We had a conversation in which I suggested he change his tactics. I'm guessing he didn't heed my redirection.

I know that the University of Oregon hosts the Oregon state meet and I'm guessing that they don't go out of their way to make the high school kids and coaches feel like they're intruders. But, in Ohio, it's a disturbing pattern with first the track being taken out of the Shoe (yes, I know increased FB revenue, I get it..) and then just yank the stands on the back straight down and in their place go trailers for a couple years. Good thinking for an event that pays exorbitant rental fees AND brings the best of the best to your campus. Maybe in our new thread we could discuss better venues.




Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
I was getting ready to put this in another thread, but was it just me or did anyone else not feel real welcome at OSU for the state track meet this year? I usually see more out of state coaches than I do OSU coaches, but everything seemed very unwelcoming this year, from the absence of stands on the backstretch to the Red Coats being more rude than ever to the parking attendants being even nastier than usual. I've never come away with a warm fuzzy feeling any year, but this year seemed even worse than usual. Not sure any kid comes out of there thinking, "I have to come here." I really feel like OSU could care less that the state meet is there and the states top performers are right there at their facility. Would not break my heart to see it go somewhere else.

I also do not really care if OSU ever turns the distance program around. I would be just as happy if it were Kent or Akron or any other school being the top program in the state. OSU does not go out of it's way at all to ingratiate itself to Ohio kids, coaches and parents. I went to BGSU, so I hate Miami and hope they stink forever and I can't stand Ohio or BGSU anymore. So any school but those 3.

Last edited by coachwhitman; 07-07-17 at 08:25 AM..
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  #71  
Old 07-07-17, 01:35 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachwhitman View Post
Maybe in our new thread we could discuss better venues.
We can combine this conversation with past threads about the state XC meet being held at a drag strip.


Frankly, I blame OHSAA. They care most about football and basketball.
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  #72  
Old 07-07-17, 03:06 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Originally Posted by coachwhitman View Post
Ha! I'm usually very grumpy about the same items, but this year was different. Due to the planned demolition of the married student housing next to the track, they let us put our camps on the big grassy strip by the apartments for the first time in years. That made up for our usual area just outside the gate by the athletes check in being roped off for the construction. So, there we were camping peacefully on Ashtabula (where all the cool kids grew up) street and of course, Woodridge had to copy our move, but that's because two Kent State minds had the best ideas...

The people in OSU event staff were just horrible. The worst was the guy who was policing the area where people were taking pics of the kids on the podium. We had a conversation in which I suggested he change his tactics. I'm guessing he didn't heed my redirection.

I know that the University of Oregon hosts the Oregon state meet and I'm guessing that they don't go out of their way to make the high school kids and coaches feel like they're intruders. But, in Ohio, it's a disturbing pattern with first the track being taken out of the Shoe (yes, I know increased FB revenue, I get it..) and then just yank the stands on the back straight down and in their place go trailers for a couple years. Good thinking for an event that pays exorbitant rental fees AND brings the best of the best to your campus. Maybe in our new thread we could discuss better venues.
I agree that some of the event staff members were not very nice. One guy yelled at me repeatedly when I said "I was just called out to the tent" and told me of dire consequences. What schools have tracks with enough seating and parking to handle the state meet? The only one I know of for sure is Welcome Stadium, and that would not be an upgrade.
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  #73  
Old 07-07-17, 06:09 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Originally Posted by mathking View Post
I agree that some of the event staff members were not very nice. One guy yelled at me repeatedly when I said "I was just called out to the tent" and told me of dire consequences. What schools have tracks with enough seating and parking to handle the state meet? The only one I know of for sure is Welcome Stadium, and that would not be an upgrade.
Been there, done that with regards to Welcome. I've never heard anyone wish for the state meet to return to that site. All I ever heard was the old-timers sniping about how much more exciting the state meet was when it was still in the Horseshoe. These are the same old-timers who complained about the addition of seated events...

Finding a stadium with enough seating wouldn't be the challenge, and the longer term trends in HS sports interest and attendance suggest that more seating is unlikely to be needed in the future. I would think finding a venue with enough parking (aside from Welcome) would be the main challenge.


I didn't encounter any of the rude workers at the meet, but I was taken aback by how restrictive things were this year compared to previous years. Teams used to be allowed to set up camps under the overhang of the softball stadium which was a good option for teams that didn't come on a bus and thus had no room to bring a tent. Also, we were able to watch the meet from atop the softball stadium last year which was a good spot in the absence of the bleachers on the backstretch. The softball stadium was off limits this year. The event staffer told me I couldn't go in there, but he wasn't rude about it.

Also, it was difficult but possible to jog on the track during the Thursday walkthrough in previous years. Heck, some teams used to try to practice their sprint relay exchanges during the walkthrough in years past even though the instructions always stated no implements were allowed. The Redcoats' main duty during past walkthroughs was to keep people off the grass. I'm told absolutely no jogging was allowed this year during Thursday's walkthrough, but I wasn't there to see it for myself. I was tired of dodging bodies while trying to jog a few laps, so we opted to run at a local park and then go to the track where the kids could still see the place and take all their pictures with Jesse.

I'd love to tell you the football finals experience is much better, but my school has played in the football finals the past 3 years, and it's still the Redcoats all wishing that they were somewhere else.
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  #74  
Old 07-09-17, 08:53 AM
Saluki Saluki is offline
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As a team, Ohio State has NEVER won a big ten title since it began in 1908.
For the historical record, Ohio State did win one Big 10 title in cross country. Brought it home in 1923.
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  #75  
Old 07-09-17, 09:13 AM
madman madman is offline
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For the historical record, Ohio State did win one Big 10 title in cross country. Brought it home in 1923.
Thanks for the correction. Not sure how I missed it.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/...ecordsBook.pdf

I wonder if they will have a centenniel celebration in 6 years.
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  #76  
Old 07-09-17, 10:26 AM
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Thanks for the correction. Not sure how I missed it.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/...ecordsBook.pdf

I wonder if they will have a centenniel celebration in 6 years.
I'd be impressed if the team members could hold a 100-year reunion and be honored at halftime of a hallowed Buckeye football game.
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  #77  
Old 07-10-17, 01:47 PM
cincyrunner cincyrunner is offline
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Any update? Hard to imagine candidates aren't narrowed down considering Coach Dennis informed team it would only take a couple weeks.
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  #78  
Old 07-11-17, 05:12 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Khadevis Robinson returns.

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-xc/spec-rel/071117aaa.html

I don't know enough about him to comment.
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  #79  
Old 07-11-17, 09:06 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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He recruited one of my athletes (Rachel Weber) when he was last at OSU and he did a very good job. He listened to her, talked to her about how he saw her training progressing and in general made her enthusiastic about the idea of being a Buckeye.
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