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  #121  
Old 07-06-17, 06:11 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
Bradley ... good pick, all the rest average at best. Hardly an example of drafting well.
In the last 10 drafts they have had 3 picks in the the lottery. Obviously the jury is still out on Tatum, Brown looks to be more than solid and Marcus Smart is a good pick. Unrealistic to expect any much more out of them.
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  #122  
Old 07-07-17, 05:05 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
In the last 10 drafts they have had 3 picks in the the lottery. Obviously the jury is still out on Tatum, Brown looks to be more than solid and Marcus Smart is a good pick. Unrealistic to expect any much more out of them.
I think Tatum is going to be good, Brown has talent ... I don't think Smart is a good player, major flaws in his game ... average at best for a 5th or 6th pick. Everyone calls Dion Waiters a bust, I would take him before I would take Smart.

My point is not they are an example of bad drafting, but they are far from an example of good drafting, that was said on here.

What Boston has done well is trade for IT who turned into a star, fleece Brooklyn for all their unprotected draft picks, and hire Brad Stevens .... all the draft choices before the last two (who we really can't judge yet) in total would be a poor team, Smart, Bradley, Olynyk, Sullinger, and ? Hardly a second coming of Golden State (a real example of drafting well)
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  #123  
Old 07-07-17, 07:33 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Looks like Brooklyn structured the Porter offer to cause some misery to the Wizards, making half of his annual salary due by 10/1.
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  #124  
Old 07-07-17, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I think Tatum is going to be good, Brown has talent ... I don't think Smart is a good player, major flaws in his game ... average at best for a 5th or 6th pick. Everyone calls Dion Waiters a bust, I would take him before I would take Smart.

My point is not they are an example of bad drafting, but they are far from an example of good drafting, that was said on here.

What Boston has done well is trade for IT who turned into a star, fleece Brooklyn for all their unprotected draft picks, and hire Brad Stevens .... all the draft choices before the last two (who we really can't judge yet) in total would be a poor team, Smart, Bradley, Olynyk, Sullinger, and ? Hardly a second coming of Golden State (a real example of drafting well)
The entire point was Boston built a solid base around Thomas (through the draft, trade and free agency), something Utah failed to do for Hayward.
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  #125  
Old 07-07-17, 07:50 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I think Tatum is going to be good, Brown has talent ... I don't think Smart is a good player, major flaws in his game ... average at best for a 5th or 6th pick. Everyone calls Dion Waiters a bust, I would take him before I would take Smart.

My point is not they are an example of bad drafting, but they are far from an example of good drafting, that was said on here.

What Boston has done well is trade for IT who turned into a star, fleece Brooklyn for all their unprotected draft picks, and hire Brad Stevens .... all the draft choices before the last two (who we really can't judge yet) in total would be a poor team, Smart, Bradley, Olynyk, Sullinger, and ? Hardly a second coming of Golden State (a real example of drafting well)
You're one of very few people in the basketball world who would take a total black hole on offense that offers little on defense over someone who plays stellar defense and knows his role on offense.

You're comparing Smart (6th), Bradley (19th), Olynyk (drafted by the Mavs), Sullinger (21) to Steph (7), Klay (11), Barnes (7th) and Draymond (2nd round). You can credit the Draymond pick, but it's not like they saw something no one else did. They obviously didn't think much of him otherwise they would have drafted Draymond at 7 instead of Barnes.

It's not really an apples to apples comparison. They've drafted well for where they have drafted.
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  #126  
Old 07-07-17, 07:51 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
Looks like Brooklyn structured the Porter offer to cause some misery to the Wizards, making half of his annual salary due by 10/1.
Sean Marks doing some good things. Similar to Morey screwing over teams with the poison pill.
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  #127  
Old 07-07-17, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
My point is not they are an example of bad drafting, but they are far from an example of good drafting, that was said on here.

What Boston has done well is trade for IT who turned into a star, fleece Brooklyn for all their unprotected draft picks, and hire Brad Stevens
Here is the exact post you took issue with.

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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
The Celtics are actually a great example of a team that did things the right way. Collected assets. Drafted decently well. Turned around the career of a guy no one else wanted. Kept cap space for smart free agent decisions. And took a flyer on a young unproven coach who turned into one of the game's best.
You basically said the exact same thing.
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  #128  
Old 07-07-17, 02:23 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Ok, Boston was in a spot where they were possibly going to be able to contend, then they lose Olynik and trade Avery Bradley. So all they've done in my opinion is make a lateral move. Hayward made them a little better, but they've given it back with losing players.
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  #129  
Old 07-07-17, 08:24 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Ok, Boston was in a spot where they were possibly going to be able to contend, then they lose Olynik and trade Avery Bradley. So all they've done in my opinion is make a lateral move. Hayward made them a little better, but they've given it back with losing players.
And a good example of why it's stupid to complain about players not being loyal to teams.

Bradley did everything to be loyal to Boston. Played his heart out. Never complained. Was a true professional. Through losing teams and winning teams. Then they're on the verge of realizing what he helped build and he gets traded to a bottom feeder so they can get under the cap to sign someone else.

There is no loyalty in the NBA. Just mutually beneficial relationships. When an owner/team can get into a better situation they will do it, and that's totally fine, but it's absurd to expect different from the players.
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  #130  
Old 07-07-17, 10:40 PM
kent16 kent16 is offline
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  #131  
Old 07-07-17, 11:49 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
LOL. Gilbert is such a dunce. Offered Billups $2 million for the GM/President job. Per ESPN, the lowest salary for the position in the NBA right now is $4 million. Why offer if you're gonna slap someone in the face?
He has no experience in a front office, why pay him the going rate. He should've been happy for the opportunity, I'm happy he didn't take it.
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  #132  
Old 07-08-17, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
He has no experience in a front office, why pay him the going rate. He should've been happy for the opportunity, I'm happy he didn't take it.
It was a dumb hire and offer. Truly stupid in almost every way.
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  #133  
Old 07-08-17, 08:34 AM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
LOL. Gilbert is such a dunce. Offered Billups $2 million for the GM/President job. Per ESPN, the lowest salary for the position in the NBA right now is $4 million. Why offer if you're gonna slap someone in the face?
Since you like to compare the billions in the NBA to the lay persons job, would you hire someone with no experience into a position at the going rate that others with years of experience are making?
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  #134  
Old 07-08-17, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
Since you like to compare the billions in the NBA to the lay persons job, would you hire someone with no experience into a position at the going rate that others with years of experience are making?
No. hiring someone with no experience for a position as important as the gm would be stupid, despite the ridiculous offer.
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  #135  
Old 07-08-17, 11:14 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
The entire point was Boston built a solid base around Thomas (through the draft, trade and free agency), something Utah failed to do for Hayward.
If Boston was so vastly better than Utah ... how come they only won two more games (in the East) than Utah?
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  #136  
Old 07-08-17, 11:44 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
Here is the exact post you took issue with.



You basically said the exact same thing.
The only thing I was disagreeing with was that Boston drafted well ... I also find it funny that you conveniently left off Rodney Hood & Rudy Gobert from Utah's draft picks?
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  #137  
Old 07-08-17, 12:51 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
The only thing I was disagreeing with was that Boston drafted well
I said they drafted "decently well." You said they drafted somewhere between bad and good. I don't see much of a distinction there.
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  #138  
Old 07-08-17, 12:58 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
I said they drafted "decently well." You said they drafted somewhere between bad and good. I don't see much of a distinction there.
Decently well ... to me, means better than average ... they were average at best ... slight difference. I guess we just have difference in definitions.
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  #139  
Old 07-08-17, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
If Boston was so vastly better than Utah ... how come they only won two more games (in the East) than Utah?
Obviously Hayward saw the upward trajectory of the Celtics and realized he had a better opportunity to win there vs Utah.
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  #140  
Old 07-08-17, 03:29 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Obviously Hayward saw the upward trajectory of the Celtics and realized he had a better opportunity to win there vs Utah.
or did he see the East as a weaker conference ... thus a better chance to be an All-Star and easier path to the Finals????
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  #141  
Old 07-08-17, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
or did he see the East as a weaker conference ... thus a better chance to be an All-Star and easier path to the Finals????
Both.
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  #142  
Old 07-08-17, 04:47 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Definitely both. He's pretty much guaranteed to be an all-star for at least the next 3-4 years if he's healthy with how bad the East currently is. The Celtics as is are in good shape to run to the finals if LeBron were to have a major injury. Within the next few years they'll be in position to be a legit contender if they can make a move to acquire another stud player.
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  #143  
Old 07-09-17, 08:38 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Definitely both. He's pretty much guaranteed to be an all-star for at least the next 3-4 years if he's healthy with how bad the East currently is. The Celtics as is are in good shape to run to the finals if LeBron were to have a major injury. Within the next few years they'll be in position to be a legit contender if they can make a move to acquire another stud player.
I agree that Boston is in a better position, I just disagree that Utah did nothing. They had a fairly decent team last year.
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  #144  
Old 07-09-17, 08:00 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I agree that Boston is in a better position, I just disagree that Utah did nothing. They had a fairly decent team last year.
The problem for Utah was that the west was loaded to the barrel last year and Houston, OKC and Minnesota got a lot better on paper this off-season. I don't know if Utah had the cap space or assets to be able to keep up and be anything better than a team that might be able to make it to the second round. If you assume that Minnesota and New Orleans make big leaps, it could be really difficult to just make the playoffs.
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  #145  
Old 07-09-17, 10:50 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
And a good example of why it's stupid to complain about players not being loyal to teams.

Bradley did everything to be loyal to Boston. Played his heart out. Never complained. Was a true professional. Through losing teams and winning teams. Then they're on the verge of realizing what he helped build and he gets traded to a bottom feeder so they can get under the cap to sign someone else.

There is no loyalty in the NBA. Just mutually beneficial relationships. When an owner/team can get into a better situation they will do it, and that's totally fine, but it's absurd to expect different from the players.
Very true Neo, I think Boston was worried he wasn't going to resign next year, so they wanted to get something for him. I also think they are going to use the Tatum kid quite a bit. For them to have any shot at Cleveland, they need to find a decent matchup for LeBron.
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  #146  
Old 07-10-17, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
The problem for Utah was that the west was loaded to the barrel last year and Houston, OKC and Minnesota got a lot better on paper this off-season. I don't know if Utah had the cap space or assets to be able to keep up and be anything better than a team that might be able to make it to the second round. If you assume that Minnesota and New Orleans make big leaps, it could be really difficult to just make the playoffs.
I agree completely ... I never said Utah has a great chance, just that the reason Hayward left was because Utah put nothing around him was not correct either. If fact I said it was more likely he left because he would have a better chance to win and be an All Star in the East.
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  #147  
Old 07-10-17, 06:53 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
He has no experience in a front office, why pay him the going rate. He should've been happy for the opportunity, I'm happy he didn't take it.
While I'm also glad he didn't take it, this is a dumb take.
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  #148  
Old 07-10-17, 06:57 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
Since you like to compare the billions in the NBA to the lay persons job, would you hire someone with no experience into a position at the going rate that others with years of experience are making?
Who said anything about the going rate?

1) There's a difference between offering the going rate and offering half the lowest salary at the position.
2) Just because he has no GM/FO experience doesn't mean he is totally inexperienced.
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  #149  
Old 07-10-17, 06:28 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
or did he see the East as a weaker conference ... thus a better chance to be an All-Star and easier path to the Finals????
Hmmm....white scorer in Boston, good-looking kid, reunited with his old college coach....

He'll never pay for another drink or dinner in Celtics land if he does reasonably well, he'll get a ton of local endorsements that pay as well as many national ones, he's playing for a legendary franchise..... lots to like.
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  #150  
Old 07-10-17, 06:35 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
While I'm also glad he didn't take it, this is a dumb take.
You think that an inexperienced GM should be paid a salary equal to what the last GM left for him to spend ? Doesn't seem like he'd get to do too much "GM'ing", anyway. They're better off with Altman. Mr Big Shot was just going to be a figurehead with Altman doing the scrambling. He got a raise out of ESPN to stay there, doing something he has some actual experience with.

You are way off here.
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