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  #91  
Old 07-05-17, 12:31 PM
kent16 kent16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Sounds like the Wizards shouldn't. When the Nets and Kings are the only two teams offering him the max, it should tell you something.
Hello? Wiz don't really have much of a choice seeing they don't have cap room to go after similar players... Porter has improved every single year in the league and is only 24... You think maybe only Nets and Kings making this offer bex their only two teams with cap/roster need to waste on young talented SF.. Nets are a long way away from competing and Kings at least 2 years off... This comment by you was pretty damn stupid
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  #92  
Old 07-05-17, 12:58 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Hello? Wiz don't really have much of a choice seeing they don't have cap room to go after similar players... Porter has improved every single year in the league and is only 24... You think maybe only Nets and Kings making this offer bex their only two teams with cap/roster need to waste on young talented SF.. Nets are a long way away from competing and Kings at least 2 years off... This comment by you was pretty damn stupid
Yup, Wiz are strapped for cash.
Yup, Porter has improved every year.
Yup, Porter is 24.
No, that doesn't mean Porter is worth remotely close to the max.

He has had one good year shooting from 3. But, from March until they were eliminated, he shot 32.5% from 3. His free throw shooting, more indicative of long term 3 pt shooting predictions, is average. His lifetime average is 9.3 ppg and last year he only averaged 13.4 ppg. He's a below average passer, average rebounder, and is pretty abysmal at getting to the free throw line which means he isn't good at attacking the basket. This is how teams get stuck in purgatory. Too good to get a meaningful draft pick, too bad to make a meaningful run in the playoffs. Let two of the worst run franchises in the NBA throw their money at him. The Kings are so much further away than 2 years from competing. They'd be better off trying to get Roberson from OKC and trying to fix his shot. Not the offensive player as Porter but similar aged, better defender and can be had for 1/5 the money. And there are more than just the Kings and the Nets who have cap space that need a young and improving 3/4.

Talk about stupid comments.
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  #93  
Old 07-05-17, 01:13 PM
kent16 kent16 is offline
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In an NBA, where allen crabbe gets a 4 year 75 mil deal.. Otto Porter gets a 4 year 105 mil deal.. LOL porter had 24th best +/- in NBA last year, higher than beal and wall.. Porter is tremendous defender.. Wizards not far off and in post lebron East their a top 3 team assuming Wall sticks around.. Top 3 East team last year and will only improve going into next year..
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  #94  
Old 07-05-17, 01:27 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Just because Crabbe got $75 million doesn't mean Porter is worth the max. The Wizards are a top 3 team in the East with or without Porter. Post LeBron East isn't likely to come for another 3-4 years, when Porter's contract is up. 24th best +/- or not, doesn't change the fact he hasn't proven himself to be a good/great 3point shooter, he cannot get to the rim or FT line where he's average, poor passer and an average rebounder. Like I said, a Roberson gives you 8 out of 10 things Porter does for 1/5 the cost and the flexibility to sign someone else to score.
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  #95  
Old 07-05-17, 02:43 PM
kent16 kent16 is offline
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Porters offensive game is head and shoulders above roberson.. Hence why not really anybody has shown any interest in roberson.. Porter is the best RFA on the market.. The correlation of the Wizards becoming a top team in the East has much 2 do with the improvement of Porters play (Not just Wall and Beals ascendance)..Don't think you understand if the Wizards let Porter walk they don't have anything but the Mid-level to go out and get somebody to replace his 13 ppg and all the other attributes he brings.. The kid was a top 3 selection for a reason and will continue to progress.. His jump this year was significant.. Comparing him to roberson who has no offensive game at all just shows your stupidity... Funny how you spend so much time acting like you know everything about NBA than spew this nonsense
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  #96  
Old 07-05-17, 03:22 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Yeah, I already addressed the fact Roberson isn't as good offensively as Porter. Hence why he is available for 1/5 of what Porter is getting. So your entire post was a nonsensical rant. Try reading before going off on a tirade. Again, speaking of stupid comments....

Porter was barely above average last year. You give him entirely too much credit. Their ascension to a top 4 team in the East was entirely because of Wall/Beal and the fact East is a bad conference and the Southeast was by far the worst division in the entire NBA. You know who else was a top 3 pick in 2013? Anthony Bennett and Victor Oladipo. Doesn't mean either of them are currently with a max contract.

thinks the Wizards are anything other than a product of the worst division in the NBA is comical.

Again, there's a reason only the two worst run teams in the NBA are offering him that much money. All this does is hamstring the Wizards financially until LeBron is done. If that's what they want, they should definitely match.
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  #97  
Old 07-05-17, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Yeah, I already addressed the fact Roberson isn't as good offensively as Porter. Hence why he is available for 1/5 of what Porter is getting. So your entire post was a nonsensical rant. Try reading before going off on a tirade. Again, speaking of stupid comments....

Porter was barely above average last year. You give him entirely too much credit. Their ascension to a top 4 team in the East was entirely because of Wall/Beal and the fact East is a bad conference and the Southeast was by far the worst division in the entire NBA. You know who else was a top 3 pick in 2013? Anthony Bennett and Victor Oladipo. Doesn't mean either of them are currently with a max contract.

I'm showing my stupidity, coming from someone: 1) who doesn't understand the basics of the English language, 2) who's username was a synonym for sh*t for years on here; 3) thinks the Wizards are anything other than a product of the worst division in the NBA is comical.

Again, there's a reason only the two worst run teams in the NBA are offering him that much money. All this does is hamstring the Wizards financially until LeBron is done. If that's what they want, they should definitely match.
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  #98  
Old 07-06-17, 06:41 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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LOL. Gilbert is such a dunce. Offered Billups $2 million for the GM/President job. Per ESPN, the lowest salary for the position in the NBA right now is $4 million. Why offer if you're gonna slap someone in the face?
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  #99  
Old 07-06-17, 07:10 AM
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  #100  
Old 07-06-17, 07:58 AM
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The NBA has a real problem. And it's really reared it's ugly head with the Gordon Hayward situation. By all accounts, here is a guy who liked playing in Utah. Was one of their best players, if not their best player, the guy you build your franchise around.
But today, in pro sports, that's not good enough for some reason. The Jazz could pay him the most, but that's not good enough anymore.
I realize this is pro sports, and one of the benefits that the players union has earned over time is the right for players to freely move if they want to. I understand that. But where are we at today when many of today's stars just try to band together to win a title??

Got a little secret...not everyone wins a title. In fact, many really good players don't win titles. Some not so good players with several titles. This again is a team game that people want to continue to individualize?
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  #101  
Old 07-06-17, 08:04 AM
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That's not a problem. Guys want to win and are willing to forgo some of the super crazy money to do it. If you want to keep talented and competitive players, build a team around them.
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  #102  
Old 07-06-17, 08:50 AM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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For what it's worth, Gordon Hayward wasn't recruited to any D1 school until his senior year when he grew like 6 inches. The only coach to offer him a scholarship when he was some awkward looking 5'11 kid - Brad Stevens at Butler. Even after offers started rolling in from major programs, he stuck with Stevens for that reason.

When looked at that way, Hayward is actually incredibly loyal.
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  #103  
Old 07-06-17, 08:50 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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As long as the ratings are good it's not a problem. If 2-3 teams ploughing everyone else uncompetitively becomes the new playoff norm it may become an issue.

The bigger issue has to be how cord cutters may negatively impact their next tv deal.
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  #104  
Old 07-06-17, 08:52 AM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
LOL. Gilbert is such a dunce. Offered Billups $2 million for the GM/President job. Per ESPN, the lowest salary for the position in the NBA right now is $4 million. Why offer if you're gonna slap someone in the face?
That's actually even more embarrassing than pursuing someone with zero qualifications for the job. He's outdone himself this time.
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  #105  
Old 07-06-17, 09:27 AM
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Well Porter offered a max contract. Will wizards match?
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  #106  
Old 07-06-17, 10:36 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Likely, and for the reason kent brought up, that they can't sign anyone of similar production. But unless he becomes a max level player (he isn't and hasn't shown anything to suggest he will) they will be similar to Memphis a few years ago. Good, not great. Dark horse title contenders but likely to never make it to the finals. Not enough cap space to make a meaningful move to push them over the top.
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  #107  
Old 07-06-17, 01:20 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
That's not a problem. Guys want to win and are willing to forgo some of the super crazy money to do it. If you want to keep talented and competitive players, build a team around them.
So you are the GM of the Utah Jazz. You have one of your best players, who only you can pay the most money to, walk. And you made the playoffs last year. How in the heck can you ever compete with that?

In my opinion it's a problem because I feel that pro sports should be a format where all teams have a chance to win. I think now, it's becoming more and more of these young players, who already have millions, grouping up in the cities of their choosing. Heck, some teams don't even need GM's anymore.
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  #108  
Old 07-06-17, 01:44 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
So you are the GM of the Utah Jazz. You have one of your best players, who only you can pay the most money to, walk. And you made the playoffs last year. How in the heck can you ever compete with that?

In my opinion it's a problem because I feel that pro sports should be a format where all teams have a chance to win. I think now, it's becoming more and more of these young players, who already have millions, grouping up in the cities of their choosing. Heck, some teams don't even need GM's anymore.
2011 - 3rd pick - Enes Kanter
2012 - no pick
2013 - 9th pick - Trey Burke
2014 - 5th pick - Dante Exum
2015 - 12th pick - Trey Lyles
2016 - no pick

Those are their 6 draft drafts since drafting Gordon. They have got exactly zero good players despite having lottery picks in 4 of the 6 years.

If they had drafted better, they would have had a much better shot at keeping Heyward. It's not his responsibility to sacrifice the prime of his career playing for an incompetent front office just because they're the team that drafted him.

The Celtics are actually a great example of a team that did things the right way. Collected assets. Drafted decently well. Turned around the career of a guy no one else wanted. Kept cap space for smart free agent decisions. And took a flyer on a young unproven coach who turned into one of the game's best.
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  #109  
Old 07-06-17, 02:16 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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I never understood the "players shouldn't be banding together!" argument. Sports is about winning. The best chance of winning is for good players to group together. Not really rocket science.
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  #110  
Old 07-06-17, 02:17 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
In my opinion it's a problem because I feel that pro sports should be a format where all teams have a chance to win.
Please explain how, if smart decisions are made by the organization, every team doesn't have an equal opportunity at success.
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  #111  
Old 07-06-17, 02:23 PM
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I was going to point out how badly the Jazz have fared in the draft. It also makes me laugh how a guy like 14red wants to take capitalism out of the equation of sports and make it a socialistic parity game.
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  #112  
Old 07-06-17, 03:10 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
So you are the GM of the Utah Jazz. You have one of your best players, who only you can pay the most money to, walk. And you made the playoffs last year. How in the heck can you ever compete with that?

In my opinion it's a problem because I feel that pro sports should be a format where all teams have a chance to win. I think now, it's becoming more and more of these young players, who already have millions, grouping up in the cities of their choosing. Heck, some teams don't even need GM's anymore.
The Jazz have no one but themselves to blame. Before he hit free agency as a RFA, he asked for $13 million/year. The Jazz wouldn't budge off of $12 million a year.

Then they told him to go off and find a deal on the market and they would match, aka they were hoping he'd get offered less on the market and they'd match that. You compete by giving your best player, a cornerstone of your franchise a fair deal. Of course you don't know any of this because you research nothing before opening your mouth.
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  #113  
Old 07-06-17, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Neopolitan View Post
2011 - 3rd pick - Enes Kanter
2012 - no pick
2013 - 9th pick - Trey Burke
2014 - 5th pick - Dante Exum
2015 - 12th pick - Trey Lyles
2016 - no pick

Those are their 6 draft drafts since drafting Gordon. They have got exactly zero good players despite having lottery picks in 4 of the 6 years.

If they had drafted better, they would have had a much better shot at keeping Heyward. It's not his responsibility to sacrifice the prime of his career playing for an incompetent front office just because they're the team that drafted him.

The Celtics are actually a great example of a team that did things the right way. Collected assets. Drafted decently well. Turned around the career of a guy no one else wanted. Kept cap space for smart free agent decisions. And took a flyer on a young unproven coach who turned into one of the game's best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston..._draft_history

Who are the decent draft picks?
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  #114  
Old 07-06-17, 04:26 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Jaylen Brown looks good so far. Marcus Smart is a solid player. Bradley was a steal at #19.

Boston has a very average draft record, and a very good record in terms of maximizing guys talent and making smart free agent/trade decisions. That's why they are where they are right now.
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  #115  
Old 07-06-17, 04:36 PM
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Bradley and Smart are definitely assets; Brown and Rozier will be quality assets, playing bigger roles as well. Lucas Nogueira was a decent pick too, as they were able to trade him on draft day for Olynyk.
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  #116  
Old 07-06-17, 04:40 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is offline
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Their big miss is Olynkyk over Giannis. But anyone who says they saw Giannis coming is a liar. His highlight tapes were from games with fewer than 40 people in the crowd.
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  #117  
Old 07-06-17, 04:42 PM
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Olynyk has been solid. It's hard to call him a miss.
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  #118  
Old 07-06-17, 05:13 PM
joesports joesports is offline
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Bradley ... good pick, all the rest average at best. Hardly an example of drafting well.
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  #119  
Old 07-06-17, 05:32 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Bradley ... good pick, all the rest average at best. Hardly an example of drafting well.
Not everyone can draft life the Warriors have recently. The Celtics have done very well for themselves and the pieces fit nicely together.
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  #120  
Old 07-06-17, 06:08 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Their big miss is Olynkyk over Giannis. But anyone who says they saw Giannis coming is a liar. His highlight tapes were from games with fewer than 40 people in the crowd.
And against guys who would barely make it to a low D1 school, more likely a D2 school.
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