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View Poll Results: Predict the results of the 2017 NBA Finals
Warriors in 7. 2 6.45%
Warriors in 6. 6 19.35%
Warriors in 5 or less. 10 32.26%
Cavs in 5 or less. 1 3.23%
Cavs in 6. 5 16.13%
Cavs in 7. 7 22.58%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 05-29-17, 10:26 AM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
As much as I'd like to see a great series, I'm going with the Warriors in 5. The Cavs have coasted through a very weak eastern conference, then the Celtics lose their most productive player in the 2nd game of the conf finals.

The Cavs will have to play at a very high level throughout the finals to even have a shot. I think they actually played a little above their heads in the playoffs so far this year.

From the Warriors side, they have the pressure on them. They have more to lose by losing the finals. If they get tight, it could affect their play. The other thing to keep an eye on, is Draymond has behaved very well int he playoffs this year. He's seemed to put away the childish behavior that got him suspended in the finals last year, and really paved the way for the Cavs to win. Draymond doesn't get suspended last year, Cavs don't win, IMO.
Funny how people can have such different takes on the same series. I think the Cavs win this series in 6. Though LeBron has played unbelievably well, I think the Cavs as a whole have underachieved in the playoffs so far. I think they have a whole other level that they can play at.
As far as GS, they are a group of 4 great players, but are not a team in the sense of the word. CLE has a big advantage in bench play, which will be the difference.
In 2015, CLE wins the championship if Kyrie and Love were not hurt. They did win the series last year. And they will win it this year. I know that everyone is on the GSW jocks because they have Durant and Curry, but I'll take LeBron and Irving any day of the week.
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  #32  
Old 05-29-17, 10:31 AM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Madge all over Lebron and Kyrie's jocks.
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  #33  
Old 05-29-17, 04:48 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Madge all over Lebron and Kyrie's jocks.
No, they are better than Durant/Curry. Simple.
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  #34  
Old 05-29-17, 10:25 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
Funny how people can have such different takes on the same series. I think the Cavs win this series in 6. Though LeBron has played unbelievably well, I think the Cavs as a whole have underachieved in the playoffs so far. I think they have a whole other level that they can play at.
As far as GS, they are a group of 4 great players, but are not a team in the sense of the word. CLE has a big advantage in bench play, which will be the difference.
In 2015, CLE wins the championship if Kyrie and Love were not hurt. They did win the series last year. And they will win it this year. I know that everyone is on the GSW jocks because they have Durant and Curry, but I'll take LeBron and Irving any day of the week.
Great points tallmadge, and it could very well happen. I think the biggest difference maker in the series is Draymond Green. He's a guy that can match up with LeBron. The main reason the east is so weak is that the better teams in the conference have no one that matches up with LeBron. And I disagree on the depth and team ball. The Warriors may not be as deep as they were last year, but it's at least a wash vs. the Cavs, who really don't go more than 7 or 8 deep. Deron Williams/ Kyle Korver will have a tough time playing effectively in this series. The Warriors are one of the few teams that actually pass the basketball. The issue the Cavs will have is that the Warriors will expose their rotations on defense. The Cavs can guard one pass, but when you rotate the ball and make the extra pass, the Cavs really struggle. The Celtics/ Raptors / Pacers simply didn't have enough finishers to expose the Cavs that way. The Warriors have finishers. I'd agree, I'd take LB/ Kyrie over Durrant / Curry in a 2 on 2 game, but this is 5 on 5 plus benches.
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  #35  
Old 05-30-17, 08:30 AM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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I do agree with the sentiment that this Cavs team is more capable of winning a title than any of the previous teams. That doesn't change the fact that the team they are playing against is also better than any of the previous teams they've faced.
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  #36  
Old 05-30-17, 08:51 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Good to see the Cavs took care of business while I was gone
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  #37  
Old 05-30-17, 09:14 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Madge all over Lebron and Kyrie's jocks.
What else is new. He's tried telling everyone since late March that LeBron is the actual MVP this year.
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  #38  
Old 05-30-17, 09:21 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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For the Cavs, this series will hinge on the play of their defense and Kevin Love. I expect LeBron and Kyrie to play just as well, if not better than last year (if that's possible). Though it won't matter for the Cavs if Love doesn't continue to play like he has, or if their defense doesn't improve. If Lue thought the Celtics moved the ball well, the Warriors are a completely different animal.

For the Warriors, it all comes down to two players who have crumbled in Finals before this: Curry and Durant. If those two struggle, GS does not win. Klay and Green will get theirs. I expect at least one triple double from Green and Klay to have a 25-30 burst in one as well. But if Curry falters to 2015 Finals (last year he was very obviously hurt stil with his knee) or Durant to every time he faces LBJ, then the Cavs win.
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  #39  
Old 05-30-17, 09:51 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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It's a weird feeling having no idea what to expect. Like I wouldn't be surprised if Golden State won this thing in 5 games with a couple blowouts, but conversely feel like the Cavs could totally win in 6.
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  #40  
Old 05-30-17, 10:36 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
What else is new. He's tried telling everyone since late March that LeBron is the actual MVP this year.
One frequent measure of an MVP is, "Where would this successful team be if the player in consideration was removed from the line-up ? How far would they fall without this player ?".

If you want to call OKC and Houston successful, I think you have a better argument. Are they ? I guess without LeBron, the Cavs could have won a first round series as a middle seed. I don't think anyone in the NBA elevates the play of those around him as much as Lebron does.

The suspect effort level of NBA regular season play today makes MVP a different question today than in years past.
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  #41  
Old 05-30-17, 10:36 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
It's a weird feeling having no idea what to expect. Like I wouldn't be surprised if Golden State won this thing in 5 games with a couple blowouts, but conversely feel like the Cavs could totally win in 6.
This is exactly how I feel ... I have no real idea what is going to happen. In this series a team could get blown out one game and win the next. The keys to me will be who shoots the best from 3 and if the Cavs (TT) can dominate the boards ... I say the Cavs in 6 or 7, but that is mostly my heart talking.
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  #42  
Old 05-30-17, 10:38 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
This is exactly how I feel ... I have no real idea what is going to happen. In this series a team could get blown out one game and win the next. The keys to me will be who shoots the best from 3 and if the Cavs (TT) can dominate the boards ... I say the Cavs in 6 or 7, but that is mostly my heart talking.
Same here.

Double digit wins and two blow-outs each way last year make it really odd. There was really just one close game - 7.
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  #43  
Old 05-30-17, 10:41 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
One frequent measure of an MVP is, "Where would this successful team be if the player in consideration was removed from the line-up ? How far would they fall without this player ?".

If you want to call OKC and Houston successful, I think you have a better argument. Are they ? I guess without LeBron, the Cavs could have won a first round series as a middle seed. I don't think anyone in the NBA elevates the play of those around him as much as Lebron does.

The suspect effort level of NBA regular season play today makes MVP a different question today than in years past.
To me LeBron is the MVP ... but Harden and Westbrook are the Players of the Year ... and to me their is a big difference between MVP and Player of the Year.
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  #44  
Old 05-30-17, 11:39 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
One frequent measure of an MVP is, "Where would this successful team be if the player in consideration was removed from the line-up ? How far would they fall without this player ?".

If you want to call OKC and Houston successful, I think you have a better argument. Are they ? I guess without LeBron, the Cavs could have won a first round series as a middle seed. I don't think anyone in the NBA elevates the play of those around him as much as Lebron does.

The suspect effort level of NBA regular season play today makes MVP a different question today than in years past.
You made the point for me though. The Cavs with Kyrie and Love would be a middle of the pack Eastern Conference playoff team. Houston and OKC are 8 seeds or worse without Harden and Westbrook. And remember we're just talking about this season, as in the MVP for the 2017 regular season.
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  #45  
Old 05-30-17, 02:14 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
For the Cavs, this series will hinge on the play of their defense and Kevin Love. I expect LeBron and Kyrie to play just as well, if not better than last year (if that's possible). Though it won't matter for the Cavs if Love doesn't continue to play like he has, or if their defense doesn't improve. If Lue thought the Celtics moved the ball well, the Warriors are a completely different animal.

For the Warriors, it all comes down to two players who have crumbled in Finals before this: Curry and Durant. If those two struggle, GS does not win. Klay and Green will get theirs. I expect at least one triple double from Green and Klay to have a 25-30 burst in one as well. But if Curry falters to 2015 Finals (last year he was very obviously hurt stil with his knee) or Durant to every time he faces LBJ, then the Cavs win.
Great points, but I think the fact that the Warriors have so many weapons will be telling. Even during the Spurs series, Durrant wasn't great all the time, but they just all take turns. Steph can carry the team for a quarter, then Thompson, then Durrant. Meanwhile LB has to play at an extremely high level the entire game. Kyrie is a guy who can carry for a few minutes, but he's not great on defense, so if he's not scoring, he's not helping. As you say, Love is the key, he has to play at a high level as well. An interesting guy in the series will be Tristan Thompson. Where does he play if the Warriors go small, and put Draymond at the 5 position? Can he guard Draymond on the perimeter? Certainly not Durrant.
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  #46  
Old 05-30-17, 02:45 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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TT can guard anybody
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  #47  
Old 05-30-17, 07:35 PM
tallmadge H2 dad tallmadge H2 dad is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
What else is new. He's tried telling everyone since late March that LeBron is the actual MVP this year.
He actually is by the definition of MVP. If you are going to give an award for the highest PPG or triple doubles, etc, then call it something else. The MVP (Most Valuable Player for those that need reminded) is the player that is MOST VALUABLE to their team. That is LeBron.
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  #48  
Old 05-30-17, 08:17 PM
WinstonSmith WinstonSmith is offline
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That's clearly subjective. Just give it up man.
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  #49  
Old 05-30-17, 08:29 PM
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eastside_purple eastside_purple is offline
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Madge....go rent another car.
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  #50  
Old 05-30-17, 08:51 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by tallmadge H2 dad View Post
He actually is by the definition of MVP. If you are going to give an award for the highest PPG or triple doubles, etc, then call it something else. The MVP (Most Valuable Player for those that need reminded) is the player that is MOST VALUABLE to their team. That is LeBron.
So his VALUE this season is higher to the Cavs than Westbrook's to the Thunder or Harden's to the Rockets? As I said, the Cavs are still a playoff team (likely #4-#5 seed) with their roster. The Thunder and Rockets are borderline (#8-#9 or worse). So by the definition of MOST VALUABLE, not just mine but several other posters, he is not for the 2017 regular season.
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  #51  
Old 05-30-17, 10:53 PM
arizonawildcat arizonawildcat is offline
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If Korber goes in the second quarter and his four of five or six 3-pointers, the Cavs will be tough to overcome. This is Korber's first appearance in the Finals and I got to believe he psyched.
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  #52  
Old 05-31-17, 06:07 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Fwiw, azw, it's Korver.

I'm with Bluth on this. I just have no read. The Warriors got even better than last year but haven't looked great (despite sweeping) as the playoffs went on. The Cavs looked like the got better and better each series until game 3 against Boston. I'll go with what I want to happen in this instance. Cavs in 7, although I don't honestly expect that.
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  #53  
Old 05-31-17, 06:55 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
To me LeBron is the MVP ... but Harden and Westbrook are the Players of the Year ... and to me their is a big difference between MVP and Player of the Year.
I think this is the realistic way to see it.

The NBA could do a lot better if it stops marketing itself as if we were all 15-20 year olds.
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  #54  
Old 05-31-17, 07:10 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
TT can guard anybody
Yes he can. LeBron can as well.

JR and Shump can both be top level defenders of 3-4 positions when GS goes small. Love and Kyrie can be surprisingly good on D from time to time, and Kyrie still owns Curry most of the time. The talking heads not giving the Cavs a chance are pretty silly.

Old Jefferson should be fresh. He can provide 15 minutes of stout D a game I'd think. We've seen nothing of Derrick Williams in a while, but physically he presents defensive options that no one has discussed. I want to see him all over Durant or Green. He's no outside shooting threat to spread the floor, but he could have real value.

I'd love see the Cavs try a motion offense similar to Boston in game 3 when GS commits to stopping our transition game while they themselves are playing small.
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  #55  
Old 05-31-17, 07:18 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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So his VALUE this season is higher to the Cavs than Westbrook's to the Thunder or Harden's to the Rockets? As I said, the Cavs are still a playoff team (likely #4-#5 seed) with their roster. The Thunder and Rockets are borderline (#8-#9 or worse). So by the definition of MOST VALUABLE, not just mine but several other posters, he is not for the 2017 regular season.
Do you think JR is a model citizen without LBJ hanging around, or is he Knicks-era JR ? Jefferson is retired without LBJ here. Do Korver or Frye sign here, or get a fatter contract elsewhere ? Then consider this - Houston or OKC players could actually be better without Harden and Westbrooks.

Tough to really quantify such things.....
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  #56  
Old 05-31-17, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I think this is the realistic way to see it.

The NBA could do a lot better if it stops marketing itself as if we were all 15-20 year olds.
Agree, apparently they need to treat Cleveland fans like they are 10-15, given how much you guys are crying over this. Christ.
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  #57  
Old 05-31-17, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
For the Cavs, this series will hinge on the play of their defense and Kevin Love. I expect LeBron and Kyrie to play just as well, if not better than last year (if that's possible). Though it won't matter for the Cavs if Love doesn't continue to play like he has, or if their defense doesn't improve. If Lue thought the Celtics moved the ball well, the Warriors are a completely different animal.
I'll combine the points you make in the first sentence: I think the series hinges on Kevin Love's defense. In the Boston series, where he really shined, he was able to camp out underneath. He gave Thompson a tremendous amount of help on the glass, started fast breaks with his outlet passes and was able to spot up and fire away from beyond the arc on the offensive end.

I don't think he will have that luxury against Golden State. The Cavs invited Boston to fire away and it was, for the most part, a bricklayers convention. Now, Love is going to have to defend the wings and take him out of the paint. Offensively, he's also going to have to post up more, even though he's much more comfortable facing the basket. If Love can adapt to that, I think the Cavs have a real chance to repeat. They don't need him to go 25/15. If he can go perform at a higher level than he did in last year's Finals, I like the Cavs in seven. If he reverts to last year's performance, Warriors in five.
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  #58  
Old 05-31-17, 08:48 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Do you think JR is a model citizen without LBJ hanging around, or is he Knicks-era JR ? Jefferson is retired without LBJ here. Do Korver or Frye sign here, or get a fatter contract elsewhere ? Then consider this - Houston or OKC players could actually be better without Harden and Westbrooks.

Tough to really quantify such things.....
So Ryan Anderson, Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordan are leading the Rockets to the #3 seed and conference semifinals? And Victor Oledipo, Steven Adams and Enes Kanter are leading the Thunder to the playoffs? You can play what-if's all day long, but that doesn't change the result. With the rosters as they are right now, minus the 3 stars in question, the Cavs are better off than both the Thunder and Rockets. Therefore LBJ isn't most valuable for this regular season. Not to mention his regular season didn't come close to theirs.

If we're talking playoff MVP that's a completely different conversation.
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  #59  
Old 05-31-17, 03:30 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
So Ryan Anderson, Trevor Ariza and Eric Gordan are leading the Rockets to the #3 seed and conference semifinals? And Victor Oledipo, Steven Adams and Enes Kanter are leading the Thunder to the playoffs? You can play what-if's all day long, but that doesn't change the result. With the rosters as they are right now, minus the 3 stars in question, the Cavs are better off than both the Thunder and Rockets. Therefore LBJ isn't most valuable for this regular season. Not to mention his regular season didn't come close to theirs.

If we're talking playoff MVP that's a completely different conversation.
I'm not trying to imply "addition by subtraction" in the exercise of looking at those teams without those stars. I'm just saying that, especially at OKC, the remaining guys might play more meaningfully without watching their star do his trick night in and night out. More complete basketball. Whereas Lebron does more to improve the play of his team mates.
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  #60  
Old 05-31-17, 03:46 PM
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Everyone with any sense of basketball understands LeBron is the best player in the league/world, by a country mile. His ability to turn it on on in individual level when he needs to most is unmatched by any player of his generation. What people need to come to terms with; it's okay that other players' performances were more valuable to their respective teams during the regular season than LeBron was this particular year. It's all speculation, but you can reasonably assume without Westbrook's triple-double for the year + his relentless effort for 81/82 games were the ONLY reasons the Thunder even made it to the playoffs and won more than 30 games with the roster they had.

Die-hard LeBron fans (I consider myself one): it's OKAY other people have better seasons than him, it's honestly makes basketball even remotely watchable in-season before the foregone conclusion of Cavs/Warriors pt. III.

At this point, LeBron might pick up one more MVP in his career (doubtful with SOOO many young/improving superstars in the league), but I believe he's more concerned about the rings at this point in his career than anything else.
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