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  #61  
Old 06-22-17, 06:25 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Life after Lebron...what in 5-6 years when he retires?

Satisfied with one title? Get the hell out of pro sports if that's the case.
Maybe in one year. No one knows what's going to happen. Is it likely he stays 5-6 years? Sure. Is it possible he leaves after next year? Of course. Only a blind homer would shut down the notion. He's left before, he could very well do it again.

I think it's more of the case "satisfied with one title while losing $40 million dollars and paying $170 million for only $115 million in player salary." I don't think you want to tell the only sports owner Cleveland has had in your lifetime that is willing to pay more than enough to win a title to get the hell out of pro sports.

What an incredibly moronic post.
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  #62  
Old 06-22-17, 06:31 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
This cracks me up ... no one knew anything about David Griffith before he was hired ... it seems like he did a decent job ... no one really know who or how the next GM will do ... the next one may be better ... just because they parted ways with a GM does not necessarily mean they are a mess.
I agree. In the context of the NBA I don't think anyone knows anything about David Griffith even to this day. However, lots of people knew plenty about David Griffin before he was hired by the Cavs.

And I agree that just because they parted ways with a GM does not necessarily mean they are a mess. But in this case, they are absolutely a mess. He's one of the best GMs in the NBA, highly regarded among every FO, days before the draft, in the midst of making trade calls, while being denied the opportunity to interview elsewhere.
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  #63  
Old 06-22-17, 11:09 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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If LeBron was making his decisions about "Where should I finish my career" based on the quality of the GM, he would have stayed with Pat Riley in Miami. GM doesn't matter to LBJ. He will have the ear of whatever GM gets hired.

Griffin might be good, but name any draft picks he made that were so great? Any amazing trades/pick-ups?

If LeBron is going to leave, it is due to the owner. Period.
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  #64  
Old 06-22-17, 11:33 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
If LeBron was making his decisions about "Where should I finish my career" based on the quality of the GM, he would have stayed with Pat Riley in Miami. GM doesn't matter to LBJ. He will have the ear of whatever GM gets hired.

Griffin might be good, but name any draft picks he made that were so great? Any amazing trades/pick-ups?

If LeBron is going to leave, it is due to the owner. Period.
Well it's not like he's had much of a chance to draft any game changing draft picks. He's had 4, 3 of them came at 25+.

Draft picks:
1) Didn't pick often injured Jabari Parker and Joel Embiid. Picked Andrew Wiggins
2) Joe Harris in the 2nd round. No minutes for him in Cleveland, put up 8.2 ppg in 22 minutes for Brooklyn this year.
3) Tyus Jones
4) Sir Dominic Pointer

Trades/Pick-ups:
1) Traded Andrew Wiggins, possible biggest #1 pick bust Anthony Bennett and 2016's 24th pick for Kevin Love
2) Cleared cap space to sign LeBron James
3) Turned garbage Dion Waiters, Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and a 2019 2nd round pick into JR Smith and Iman Shumpert and a 2016 1st round pick
4) Turned 2 heavily protected draft picks into Timofey Mozgov
5) Flipped Tyus Jones for cap space
6) Signed Delly
6) Signed Richard Jefferson
7) Turned Varejao, Cunningham and a 2018 1st round pick into Channing Frye
8) Turned Dunleavy, Mo Williams and a 2019 1st round pick into Kyle Korver

For a team as cash strapped as the Cavs have been since he took over, that's a damn good job.
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  #65  
Old 06-22-17, 02:02 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Maybe in one year. No one knows what's going to happen. Is it likely he stays 5-6 years? Sure. Is it possible he leaves after next year? Of course. Only a blind homer would shut down the notion. He's left before, he could very well do it again.

I think it's more of the case "satisfied with one title while losing $40 million dollars and paying $170 million for only $115 million in player salary." I don't think you want to tell the only sports owner Cleveland has had in your lifetime that is willing to pay more than enough to win a title to get the hell out of pro sports.

What an incredibly moronic post.
You can't assume he's leaving otherwise you sacrifice today worrying about the future...now that would be moronic.

And it doesn't take a blind Homer to see this is his best opportunity. Going anywhere else makes 0 basketball sense.

If Gilbert is suddenly worried about the cost then he should absolutely get out. This is what is required to compete for titles and titles are all that matter in pro sports, especially when you have the best player in the world.

He also owns the Monsters, the Gladiators and I believe gets a cut of concert tickets through Flash seats...his pockets aren't empty.
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  #66  
Old 06-22-17, 02:14 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by y2h View Post
You can't assume he's leaving otherwise you sacrifice today worrying about the future...now that would be moronic.

And it doesn't take a blind Homer to see this is his best opportunity. Going anywhere else makes 0 basketball sense.

If Gilbert is suddenly worried about the cost then he should absolutely get out. This is what is required to compete for titles and titles are all that matter in pro sports, especially when you have the best player in the world.

He also owns the Monsters, the Gladiators and I believe gets a cut of concert tickets through Flash seats...his pockets aren't empty.
When did I say he should sacrifice today to worry about the future? That's right, I didn't. But it's obviously a discussion Gilbert and Griffin had, hence why Griffin is no longer with the team.

Well that's debatable.

Or he could scale back on player salaries and not lose $40 million. He owes you nothing. No other team lost more than $10 million. Let me know the next time you run a business and choose to let it operate in the red for multiple years. What a stupid, homer statement.
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  #67  
Old 06-22-17, 09:40 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
When did I say he should sacrifice today to worry about the future? That's right, I didn't. But it's obviously a discussion Gilbert and Griffin had, hence why Griffin is no longer with the team.

Well that's debatable.

Or he could scale back on player salaries and not lose $40 million. He owes you nothing. No other team lost more than $10 million. Let me know the next time you run a business and choose to let it operate in the red for multiple years. What a stupid, homer statement.
How do you know what discussion occurred between them? It could just as obviously been about money and organizational structure. You honestly believe one or the other decided they needed to blow up the roster, cut payroll and sacrifice next season because Lebron might leave after the season? Again that would be moronic.

It's not Gilberts primary business. Even if the team took a loss he isn't feeling it. Owning a sports franchise is different than a typical business. Success isn't measured by an accountant, it's measured by results on the field of play.
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  #68  
Old 06-22-17, 09:58 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Who knows for sure what will happen, but IMO staying with the Cavs is clearly his best bet to have a chance to win another title within the next few years. The odds of pairing with another player on or above Kyrie's level is very slim, and the East is still thin. Boston is the only immediate threat, but they still don't have a bonafide star.

I can't see him going out west with the Warriors likely being loaded for at least three more years. The Cavs are probably guaranteed at least two more Finals appearances before Boston has the pieces. Adding Hayward isn't putting the Celtics over the top in a best of 7. There'd have to be major trade and free agent movement to form an LA team that would have an equal or better shot than what he has in Cleveland.
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  #69  
Old 06-22-17, 10:48 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joesports View Post
This cracks me up ... no one knew anything about David Griffith before he was hired ... it seems like he did a decent job ... no one really know who or how the next GM will do ... the next one may be better ... just because they parted ways with a GM does not necessarily mean they are a mess.
brian is just an echo of the last blog he read or broadcast he heard.
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  #70  
Old 06-23-17, 06:24 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
How do you know what discussion occurred between them? It could just as obviously been about money and organizational structure. You honestly believe one or the other decided they needed to blow up the roster, cut payroll and sacrifice next season because Lebron might leave after the season? Again that would be moronic.

It's not Gilberts primary business. Even if the team took a loss he isn't feeling it. Owning a sports franchise is different than a typical business. Success isn't measured by an accountant, it's measured by results on the field of play.
Because they both said the reason for the departure was they couldn't agree to the future of the team. You can speculate all you want and believe a bunch of conspiracies behind the scenes, I'll go with what they said.

So? Just because it isn't his primary business he should be okay with losing $40 million? No, that's your measure of success. That doesn't mean it is the standard, no matter how bad you want it to be.
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  #71  
Old 06-23-17, 12:12 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Well it's not like he's had much of a chance to draft any game changing draft picks. He's had 4, 3 of them came at 25+.

Draft picks:
1) Didn't pick often injured Jabari Parker and Joel Embiid. Picked Andrew Wiggins
2) Joe Harris in the 2nd round. No minutes for him in Cleveland, put up 8.2 ppg in 22 minutes for Brooklyn this year.
3) Tyus Jones
4) Sir Dominic Pointer

Trades/Pick-ups:
1) Traded Andrew Wiggins, possible biggest #1 pick bust Anthony Bennett and 2016's 24th pick for Kevin Love
2) Cleared cap space to sign LeBron James
3) Turned garbage Dion Waiters, Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and a 2019 2nd round pick into JR Smith and Iman Shumpert and a 2016 1st round pick
4) Turned 2 heavily protected draft picks into Timofey Mozgov
5) Flipped Tyus Jones for cap space
6) Signed Delly
6) Signed Richard Jefferson
7) Turned Varejao, Cunningham and a 2018 1st round pick into Channing Frye
8) Turned Dunleavy, Mo Williams and a 2019 1st round pick into Kyle Korver

For a team as cash strapped as the Cavs have been since he took over, that's a damn good job.
Wow. Impressive details for sure, thanks. Are you writing his memoirs or something?

Anyway, I've bolded what are good moves in my opinion. Clearing cap space for LeBron doesn't count, any accountant with a pulse could do that. Most of the others are meaningless. The underlines are big mistakes in my opinion.
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  #72  
Old 06-23-17, 01:10 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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You asked if he made any good moves or not. If you don't want an answer, don't ask.

Turning Dion Waiters, Lou Amundson and Alex Kirk and a guy who will likely never play in the NBA into JR Smith and Iman Shumpert is a good move. They don't win a title last year without JR's Game 3. He scored 30 points and limited Klay Thompson to 10 points on 13 shots. Cavs won by 30. While Klay scored 25 in game 6, JR made him work for it. He took 21 shots to get it. Chipped in 14 himself. Cavs won by 14. Held Klay to 14 points on 17 shots in game 7. That was a good move. They don't win a title in 2016 with Dion Waiters playing in place of Jr Smith.

Assuming LeBron stays, those picks will be in the very high 20's, which has an incredibly low hit rate. For a team that is in win now mode, it's the right move to make. 99% chance Korver, even this year, is better than anyone they could get with the 26th+ pick. Frye? Maybe, but hindsight is 20/20 and to judge that pick with it is dumb. They needed more shooting and they got it.

They don't win a title without Delly harassing Steph. Richard Jefferson added big moments and glue guy stats too. Turning two picks that will likely end up as 2nd rounds for Mozgov is a good move too. Just because many people can move cap space doesn't make it any less of a good move.
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  #73  
Old 07-22-17, 10:44 PM
fleadog101 fleadog101 is offline
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Don't see the big guy going any where if anything he ends up owning part of the team.
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  #74  
Old 07-24-17, 07:20 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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He can't own part of the team while he's playing.
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  #75  
Old 07-24-17, 07:41 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
He can't own part of the team while he's playing.
He already owns the Cavs ... just not on paper.
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