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  #1  
Old 06-21-17, 01:44 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Question Summer Mileage

What do you all target for summer miles. I understand there are many philosophies on millage so I would like to see what this diverse group thinks.

Assuming the boy runs year around and has been running for several years and can run under 19:00. A senior's target would be to top out about 50 weekly miles and each year younger drop 5 miles. I think peak mileage should be middle of August. After that hold miles flat or slightly drop as harder running is added.

An elite level runner would top these amounts but would spend around same amount of time running but since they run faster they put in more miles.

In June and early July once a week do some harder tempo running increasing as summer goes on and by middle of July add in once a week interval training with full recovery. This sets a runner up by early/mid August to ready to normal week of CC training.
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Old 06-21-17, 04:04 PM
duenorth duenorth is offline
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Any suggestions for an injury prone freshman girl with a history of stress fractures? What to do and what to avoid? I'd ask in the girls forum but it seems dead.
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Old 06-21-17, 04:40 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duenorth View Post
Any suggestions for an injury prone freshman girl with a history of stress fractures? What to do and what to avoid? I'd ask in the girls forum but it seems dead.
I would say 20 miles max and would try to get most of those of the roads. Try to add in some swimming and biking to help fitness level but not stress the legs.

Also do some research on stretches/exercises to help with stress fractures.
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Old 06-21-17, 04:40 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duenorth View Post
Any suggestions for an injury prone freshman girl with a history of stress fractures? What to do and what to avoid? I'd ask in the girls forum but it seems dead.
duenorth, one thing I highly recommend in such cases is a lot of cross training. Particularly in the summer but carrying over into the regular season. Running in the pool is at the top of my list for cross training. Followed by swimming and biking. I have had a couple of kids who went a whole season and never ran two days in a row except for Fridays and race Saturdays. It is also important with such kids to err on the side of caution. If they start feeling shin or knee pain take a day off and a day or two of cross training. Rather than push through and be unable to run.
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Old 06-21-17, 04:51 PM
madman madman is offline
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Here are rough guidelines I've used for awhile. Actual mileage is adjusted for each individual, especially those who run at the State Championship in June and who continue on to Nationals.



If I could actually get everyone to follow this, especially JV/Fr types, I think we would have far less soreness/illness/injuries in the fall.

For those that like a more detailed plan to follow, I give them this (I hope the fonts are readable here):

http://tinyurl.com/yaj5ylkj

Note that "hills" can be repeat hills or a very hilly firm run. A "Stillwater" tempo is 5 mi at 80-85% of 3200 speed (Christensen - Stillwater HS, MN) which is surprisingly "doable" for all ability levels, especially if you have them do a 3200TT first. The younger runners tend to under perform on TTs in the summer and that slows their goal pace. A kid who runs 12:00 for 3200 would be expected to run 7:15-7:30 pace for 5 mile. Firm but they won't be wasted.

Last edited by madman; 06-21-17 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 06-21-17, 07:56 PM
duenorth duenorth is offline
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Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it! Is there any pool running she can do in an above ground (chest height) pool or does she need to seek out a deeper pool?
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Old 06-22-17, 10:05 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duenorth View Post
Thank you so much for the advice, I really appreciate it! Is there any pool running she can do in an above ground (chest height) pool or does she need to seek out a deeper pool?
I have never done pool running but my guess is chest height would be the highest you would want it any higher you would have to move so much water it would be very hard to do more than a walk.

Thanks Madman seems our millage amounts are similar.

On a related note does anyone have there kids run twice in a day? I am not a fan if they are going to do two work-outs in a day make the 2nd one cross-training.
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Old 06-22-17, 11:38 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Running in chest deep water is good, and a big improvement over the ground in terms of impact. If running where she can touch the bottom, basically you should try to match duration and intensity to what she would do if she were running normally. Running in deeper water is actually possible and beneficial from an injury resistance perspective. You can run in deep water, and if you do use a running motion you will stay afloat, even without a jacket. (Though I always recommend using a flotation jacket designed for pool running to start.) It does take more effort, so I use an 80% duration rule of thumb.

As for the two a day question, the only two a day workouts I have done (in college) or that our kids ever do (some of the heathy varsity kids) is an extra pool workout, swimming or running.
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Old 06-22-17, 03:52 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duenorth View Post
Any suggestions for an injury prone freshman girl with a history of stress fractures? What to do and what to avoid? I'd ask in the girls forum but it seems dead.
My first move would be to have her go to an orthopedic specialist. Diet, Orthotics etc...? Have to find the cause of the problem and then design a program. Not sure what she was doing in MS, but there shouldn't be much going on training wise as a 7th and 8th grader that would stress a young girl to the point of stress fractures. Something is going on that pool workouts etc might not relieve. Especially moving forward. To get better, her training will need to progress each year and that's hard to do if injury is always a concern.
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Old 06-22-17, 04:14 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Summer Mileage

Going to see an orthopedic specialist is a good idea. Checking for correctable physiological issues is a very good idea. In general I agree with psychodad that a middle schooler shouldn't be doing so much work (and yes I know some do anyway) that multiple stress fractures occur. I have definitely had kids whose injury problems early were related to growth (saw a little of it with my own son growing six inches from spring 2016 to spring 2017) and some who were just fragile. Often that is from mechanics or lack of strength. I look at this as a situation where you should seek medical help, gait analysis and reduced impact work as you try to help the athlete get healthier and faster.
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Old 06-22-17, 05:24 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duenorth View Post
Any suggestions for an injury prone freshman girl with a history of stress fractures? What to do and what to avoid? I'd ask in the girls forum but it seems dead.
Running on grass is best. Stick to softer surfaces. Stay off roads/sidewalks.
Stride length and foot strike may need attention. Make sure she is landing more midfoot with a shorter, quicker turnover. Sometimes, growing runners try to have a "long stride" and end up heel striking, which leads to shin splints/stress fractures.

Also add 8-10 backward strides (70-100 meters) to the warm up and cool down.
My nutty belief that running backwards will strengthen the opposing muscle groups that you normally work when running forward....
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Old 06-22-17, 07:04 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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A few good comments on here. Mileage should peak before meets start and actually using cutback weeks really help when changing stimulus or workouts. We have cutback weeks when changing phases and then climb mileage back up for 3 weeks.
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Old 06-23-17, 07:40 AM
duenorth duenorth is offline
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Thank you all for the input. We have a pool so I am going to get her to use that this summer. She has been seeing a sports orthopedic specialist, she was in a boot most of the winter from the last stress fracture. He can't come up with a reason why this keeps happening either, her form seems fine, her shoes are fine. He said she's "built to run" so I sure wish she could do that without breaking down! It seems like she does fine just running but when hills and drills are thrown in she falls apart.
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Old 06-23-17, 08:54 AM
madman madman is offline
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The body will adapt to stress if given time and if the increase is small enough.

Too many runners jog around town all summer and then when official practices start the intensity ramps up, volume too often increases, and ancillary ballistic activities begins. Neophytes too often also try to keep up with more experienced/faster peers making everyday a hard day. Without recovery there will be no growth and injuries/illness are almost certain to occur eventually.

There may be some structural problems (low bone density, etc.) are the core of some problems, but I think most problems are related to:
  • Not enough time spent playing (lack of function strength in multiple planes)
  • Not enough time outside (vitamin D deficiency)
  • Introducing drills, speed, and volume at the same time

These are all problems within the control of each athlete during the summer.

Bike, swim, play ultimate, tag, ... be active all summer everyday. You should be doing a lot more things than just running.

Do core work, drills, etc. all summer. Add 1 or 2 new exercises each week and drop some off your list to keep things fresh. Many of these are the things that may not directly make you faster, but they will keep you injury free or more efficient - meaning you can run the same speed yet expend less energy.

Be very cautious about adding plyrometrics into your routine. These are very high loading activities. Far too often coaches introduce them too quickly and with too much volume. Furthermore, they often get introduced to all athletes on a team at the same time with the same volume despite not all athletes being equally ready. If these are going to be part of your in-season routine, begin adding them in small doses all summer.

The Gambetta Leg Circuit is a very effective routine and there is a 6 week plan for its introduction here:

http://www.functionalpathtrainingblo...g-circuit.html

If you want to remain healthy, eat right, get enough sleep, be consistent in your training - never making significant jumps in your training volume or intensity. All of these are choices.

It's also important to realize that some people are quick responders and others not so quick - some peoples' bodies quickly adapt to new training loads and others take a long time. Given the same stimulus not everyone will realize similar gains even with appropriate rest, proper nutrition, etc.

If you take longer to adapt to a change in training loads, then it's really important that you begin ramping up towards expected in-season training loads all summer long. That includes paces, mileage, and ancillary activities. Listen to your body and adjust accordingly. If you wait until the last couple weeks to approach training loads expected once official practices begin, you should expect to be injured/sick by about the time of your first meet or soon thereafter.
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