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  #1  
Old 08-15-18, 05:18 PM
radiodavel 2 radiodavel 2 is offline
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Court Rules Against OHSAA’s Use of Competitive Balance

Court Rules Against OHSAA’s Use of Competitive Balance
https://statelinesportsnetwork.net/2...titive-balance

Quote:
The Ohio High School Athletic Association (OHSAA) was informed Wednesday that the Court of Common Pleas in Hamilton County has issued a temporary restraining order (TRO) that prohibits the OHSAA from continuing to utilize a component of the Competitive Balance process that OHSAA member schools voted into place in 2014.

Could have a national ripple in some states
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  #2  
Old 08-15-18, 05:44 PM
bsee54321 bsee54321 is online now
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This is big news! This may cause the OHSAA to remove the competitive balance formula from enrollment numbers for all schools. Even though this ruling only applies to the 8 Cincinnati schools- the OHSAA is not going to remove the competitive for those 8 schools only- this would cause a big out cry from other school effected by competitive balance. So football regions may change due to this ruling. One major impact could see Toledo Central Catholic drop back down to Division IV based on enrollment.
My issue with this was it was passed by the majority of the schools- so if you don't like the outcome you just go to court and have it overturned.
The OHSAA has its back against the wall because if OHSAA fights this ruling it would cause schools to seriously think about dropping out of the OHSAA if competitive balance does not favor them- but if OHSAA does not fight it then schools are to be upset with the advantages schools are seen as having over other schools by using enrollment only for tournament divisions.
I guess Dan Ross has to be glad he retired and Jerry Snodgrass has inherited a huge headache.

Last edited by bsee54321; 08-15-18 at 05:55 PM.
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  #3  
Old 08-15-18, 06:00 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Does anyone know how many schools would change divisions if Competitive Balance is rescinded?
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Old 08-15-18, 06:02 PM
fish82 fish82 is offline
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I'm just surprised that Dave finally has a somewhat interesting story.
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Old 08-15-18, 06:04 PM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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The court passed a restraining order. They didn’t rule against it. I think they have another hearing scheduled in 2 weeks.
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  #6  
Old 08-15-18, 06:08 PM
tndog tndog is offline
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Public/Private split talk resurfaces
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  #7  
Old 08-15-18, 06:14 PM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
Does anyone know how many schools would change divisions if Competitive Balance is rescinded?
Just a semi-educated guess but I would think based on enrollment all the Cincy and Dayton privates would drop one division.
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  #8  
Old 08-15-18, 06:20 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tndog View Post
Public/Private split talk resurfaces
As a '74 Badin grad I'd suggest if they don't like the rule (which passed by majority vote) to then drop out of OHSAA--good luck with scheduling opponents--this a very short-sided lawsuit by the GCL Co-Ed and Roger Bacon IMO!!
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  #9  
Old 08-15-18, 06:25 PM
playboi12 playboi12 is offline
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It seems like Roger Bacon has been trying to rock the boat as of late. I dont understand what their deal is. The other GCL schools have the talent to compete up one division, why are they moaning?
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Old 08-15-18, 06:28 PM
parkhaven parkhaven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsee54321 View Post
This is big news! This may cause the OHSAA to remove the competitive balance formula from enrollment numbers for all schools. Even though this ruling only applies to the 8 Cincinnati schools- the OHSAA is not going to remove the competitive for those 8 schools only- this would cause a big out cry from other school effected by competitive balance. So football regions may change due to this ruling. One major impact could see Toledo Central Catholic drop back down to Division IV based on enrollment.
My issue with this was it was passed by the majority of the schools- so if you don't like the outcome you just go to court and have it overturned.
The OHSAA has its back against the wall because if OHSAA fights this ruling it would cause schools to seriously think about dropping out of the OHSAA if competitive balance does not favor them- but if OHSAA does not fight it then schools are to be upset with the advantages schools are seen as having over other schools by using enrollment only for tournament divisions.
I guess Dan Ross has to be glad he retired and Jerry Snodgrass has inherited a huge headache.
Competitive balance is just more social engineering brought to us by the same people who thought that promoting people on the basis of group representation regardless how incompetent, inept, dishonest or anything else
that they might be was a good idea. Hobbling the competent to create the appearances of equal outcomes distorts and disfigures the competition itself to an extent that it can become meaningless. Beyond that, it ignores human nature which is the primary reason why Marxism has failed in every place and every time it has been forced on a people.
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  #11  
Old 08-15-18, 06:36 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
The court passed a restraining order. They didn’t rule against it. I think they have another hearing scheduled in 2 weeks.
Th article says that the restraining order "prohibits the OHSAA from continuing to utilize a component of the Competitive Balance process."

I'd say every is in limbo right now.

That may put a kink in early season Harbin calculations.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-18, 07:06 PM
y2h y2h is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkhaven View Post
Competitive balance is just more social engineering brought to us by the same people who thought that promoting people on the basis of group representation regardless how incompetent, inept, dishonest or anything else
that they might be was a good idea. Hobbling the competent to create the appearances of equal outcomes distorts and disfigures the competition itself to an extent that it can become meaningless. Beyond that, it ignores human nature which is the primary reason why Marxism has failed in every place and every time it has been forced on a people.
Its an understanding of how schools aquire talent.

A school in a large metro area with access to a higher concentration of athletes vs a small farm school who's confined to who happens to walk the halls disfigures competition.

I suppose you are against divisions...if Marion Local can't hang with Iggy too bad.
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  #13  
Old 08-15-18, 07:06 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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Roger Bacon is a peace of crap. These guys beat up on the little guys with all their recruits each year in basketball and now they are crying for what reason? They cried about staying in the GCL so they crap out for the MVC. Now, there crying about something else.... quit molesting the rest of the schools in the state or get the heck out of the OHSAA...
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  #14  
Old 08-15-18, 07:16 PM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Nice of them to do this randomly right before the start of the school year instead of when it first went into effect, or even in like June so it could’ve been wrapped up before the season starts. Classy.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-18, 07:31 PM
fbrox fbrox is offline
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Don't be shocked if we find out Alter is big part of this law suit. The whole league is listed as plaintiffs so somehow all are involved. It's too bad this whole league is on the verge of breaking up OHSAA because they refuse to admit they have recruiting advantages public's don't have. Of course the privates will likely sue again when separation happens.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-18, 07:33 PM
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The public schools that are feeding these schools voucher money should flood the OHSAA office with recruiting violation allegations against them. If it weren't for the voucher program, these schools would be closed or in serious financial distress. Now they are whining because the voucher students result in an increased enrollment? Wow, that's pathetic!

Last edited by just a fan; 08-15-18 at 09:12 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-18, 07:33 PM
parkhaven parkhaven is offline
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Fairness is an emotion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Its an understanding of how schools aquire talent.

A school in a large metro area with access to a higher concentration of athletes vs a small farm school who's confined to who happens to walk the halls disfigures competition.

I suppose you are against divisions...if Marion Local can't hang with Iggy too bad.
A civilization cannot survive without its ideals. Ours was founded on the principle that all are created equal and have a God given right to equal opportunity. When the so-called "fairness remedies" end up destroying the ideals, it jeopardizes the very fabric of our civilization.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-18, 07:38 PM
The Dock The Dock is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkhaven View Post
Competitive balance is just more social engineering brought to us by the same people who thought that promoting people on the basis of group representation regardless how incompetent, inept, dishonest or anything else
that they might be
was a good idea.
Hobbling the competent to create the appearances of equal outcomes distorts and disfigures the competition itself to an extent that it can become meaningless. Beyond that, it ignores human nature which is the primary reason why Marxism has failed in every place and every time it has been forced on a people.
That’s a pretty interesting way of saying “I think white people are superior to non-whites.” Way to show your colors, kid.
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Old 08-15-18, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkhaven View Post
A civilization cannot survive without its ideals. Ours was founded on the principle that all are created equal and have a God given right to equal opportunity. When the so-called "fairness remedies" end up destroying the ideals, it jeopardizes the very fabric of our civilization.
So, you think we should do away with divisions in high school sports?
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Old 08-15-18, 07:40 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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According to the article. The problem is that competitive balance has no affect on D1 schools. And restricts smaller schools only. Kinda makes sense. But, what would the answer be ? I, thought competitive balance was just the start of some bigger long term plan.

Last edited by cvctrackfan; 08-15-18 at 07:54 PM.
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  #21  
Old 08-15-18, 07:46 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is offline
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The competitive balance by-law was passed by the majority of the OHSAA schools--the rules of OHSAA determine that a majority vote of member schools passes a referendum. Only option for the GCL Co-Ed schools and Roger Bacon is to opt to leave the OHSAA and play other schools from their league and schools from other states---that should be real fun--and lots of travel for their sports teams. Just a silly lawsuit as Vamp said--and I'm a Badin grad---playing up one division is not a big deal!!
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Old 08-15-18, 08:09 PM
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Old 08-15-18, 08:15 PM
thecoachmoore thecoachmoore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CometCountry View Post
The competitive balance by-law was passed by the majority of the OHSAA schools--the rules of OHSAA determine that a majority vote of member schools passes a referendum. Only option for the GCL Co-Ed schools and Roger Bacon is to opt to leave the OHSAA and play other schools from their league and schools from other states---that should be real fun--and lots of travel for their sports teams. Just a silly lawsuit as Vamp said--and I'm a Badin grad---playing up one division is not a big deal!!


If you count the number of public schools in Ohio and compare that number to the number of private schools, of course public schools are going to be the majority.

I’m not sure what the best option is, but the only option isn’t to leave the OHSAA. But if that happened you think public’s wouldn’t play privates? Maybe not as much, but it would be no different than playing out of state schools. And if privates were no longer a member of the OHSAA, privates would not be bound by OHSAA’s recruiting rules. Good luck with that!

Is it totally fair for there not to be an adjustment? No. Is is just as unfair with the current CB calculations? Definitely.


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  #24  
Old 08-15-18, 08:16 PM
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SCC was DVI last season with CB. This would drop them back to DVII.
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Old 08-15-18, 08:16 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkhaven View Post
Competitive balance is just more social engineering brought to us by the same people who thought that promoting people on the basis of group representation regardless how incompetent, inept, dishonest or anything else
Social Engineering yes but so is division of any sort, Fr, JV and Varsity separation. What wusses, not letting 10 year olds play on the same team as 17 year olds. Of course it's "social engineering." It's not deterministic Science. There are no rules handed down by God on how to keep things competitive. Teams should be glad they get to play up with the tougher competition. Woudn't want a social engineer like yourself holding them back now would you?

You know, you're one of the same people who thought that promoting people on the basis of group representation regardless how incompetent, inept, dishonest or anything else bla blah, bla blah, bla blah.

It's not winning if the game isn't competitive. As someone already mentioned, it's a club, with club rules. A school is free to leave the club. If the club didn't vote rules to modify division assignment, then other unhappy schools were free to leave.
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Old 08-15-18, 08:35 PM
thecoachmoore thecoachmoore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
Social Engineering yes but so is division of any sort, Fr, JV and Varsity separation. What wusses, not letting 10 year olds play on the same team as 17 year olds. Of course it's "social engineering." It's not deterministic Science. There are no rules handed down by God on how to keep things competitive. Teams should be glad they get to play up with the tougher competition. Woudn't want a social engineer like yourself holding them back now would you?

You know, you're one of the same people who thought that promoting people on the basis of group representation regardless how incompetent, inept, dishonest or anything else bla blah, bla blah, bla blah.

It's not winning if the game isn't competitive. As someone already mentioned, it's a club, with club rules. A school is free to leave the club. If the club didn't vote rules to modify division assignment, then other unhappy schools were free to leave.


So basically what you’re saying is that rather than whine and cry about how unfair life is, public schools should’ve left the OHSAA rather than whine and cry and demand CB? Got it!


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Old 08-15-18, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvctrackfan View Post
According to the article. The problem is that competitive balance has no affect on D1 schools. And restricts smaller schools only. Kinda makes sense. But, what would the answer be ? I, thought competitive balance was just the start of some bigger long term plan.
Have D1 as an open division where any team can choose to play in it. I do believe that there is an impact on D1 with CB and that is teams that drop out of D1 are replaced with better competition.
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Old 08-15-18, 08:58 PM
vamp2syd vamp2syd is offline
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I call for a complete ban of all public schools from scheduling GCL-coed schools in the future. SWO would be much better with these schools being non-existent.
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Old 08-15-18, 09:17 PM
FMJet94 FMJet94 is offline
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I do not understand the legal basis for this TRO. How does the court have any jurisdiction over what OHSAA regulates?
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Old 08-15-18, 09:28 PM
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I suspect that this will be a mess for the first few weeks but in the end, the competitive balance will remain.

Can any lawyers on here explain what reason this rule could be overturned?
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