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  #1  
Old 07-24-18, 04:38 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Moment in Ohio HS History - Dayton Roth's 3:14.8 Record Team

Attached is the picture of the Dayton AAA Regional winning mile relay team, Dayton Roth, who ran 3:14.8 in 1980 for the MILE relay, not the 1600m relay.

Great team...unfortunately, for years, and to this day still, the Region 4 record is listed as 3:14.80 (it was MT, not FAT) for the 1600m relay. There is 30' 8" difference between the two, the 1600m being shorter. The record should read as 3:13.7 MT, not 3:14.80.

I hope in the future that the Region 4 powers that be will rectify this record. To allow a current team to run somewhere between 3:13.7 and 3:14.8 and take the record would do a disservice to that great Roth team.

My 2 cents.
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File Type: pdf Dayton AAA - Mile Relay Team.pdf (252.7 KB, 46 views)
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  #2  
Old 07-24-18, 06:24 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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That team was unreal
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  #3  
Old 07-25-18, 01:29 PM
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Is this the best 4 x 400m or 4 x 440y time ever recorded by an Ohio boys high school

Trotwood Madison 3:11.33 at Nike Outdoor Nationals 2008

http://nc.milesplit.com/meets/31337/...w#.W1jAKtVKiUk
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Old 07-25-18, 01:45 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
Is this the best 4 x 400m or 4 x 440y time ever recorded by an Ohio boys high school

Trotwood Madison 3:11.33 at Nike Outdoor Nationals 2008

http://nc.milesplit.com/meets/31337/...w#.W1jAKtVKiUk
Craig Whitmore's data indicates that Cleveland Glenville ran 3:10.66 (4x400m) for 2nd at Nationals in 2003. I've confirmed:

http://archive.dyestat.com/3us/3out/...igh/r-boys.htm
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  #5  
Old 07-25-18, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post

Great team...unfortunately, for years, and to this day still, the Region 4 record is listed as 3:14.80 (it was MT, not FAT) for the 1600m relay. There is 30' 8" difference between the two, the 1600m being shorter. The record should read as 3:13.7 MT, not 3:14.80.
No, it shouldn't. A converted time should never count as a record. A record has got to be an exact time at an exact distance. Otherwise you're just guessing at what shoulda, coulda been the record. Pure nonsense in my book. It is for this reason I maintain separate lists for yards and meters. Count the 3:14.8 as the yards record and don't convert it.
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Old 07-25-18, 03:04 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
No, it shouldn't. A converted time should never count as a record. A record has got to be an exact time at an exact distance. Otherwise you're just guessing at what shoulda, coulda been the record. Pure nonsense in my book.
Following your suggestion, then, they shouldn't list the 3:14.8 time period in their record-keeping. They should go with the best mark since the 1982 meet, which was the first year Dayton converted fully to metric races. I would be amenable to that suggestion. However, for them to continue to keep the 3:14.8 as the record and to allow a subsequent team to run between the 3:13.7 and 3:14.8 marks and supersede the 3:14.8 would be a disservice to the Roth team. They certainly did cross the 1600m point of the race approximately a second faster than the 3:14.8. The Region 4 record should then be changed to whatever is the fastest time 1982-onward, and retire the marks prior to that (except for the 100m/110mH, which were contested in 1980-81). That would ok.
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Old 07-25-18, 04:20 PM
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What is impressive about Roth's time is this. The regional meet began in 1965. It was run in yards at Welcome stadium for 17 years. In the next 37 years when the events were run in meters, no team has ever been able to best the 3:14.8 time even at the shorter metric distance.
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Old 07-25-18, 05:06 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
What is impressive about Roth's time is this. The regional meet began in 1965. It was run in yards at Welcome stadium for 17 years. In the next 37 years when the events were run in meters, no team has ever been able to best the 3:14.8 time even at the shorter metric distance.
This is very true. It was one whale of a team!!!
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  #9  
Old 07-25-18, 06:52 PM
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Here is the trivia question for this thread. In the 37 years the R4 meet has been run in meters, which team has come closest to Roth's time.

A. Middletown
B. Trotwood - Madison
C. Dunbar
D. Wayne
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  #10  
Old 07-25-18, 07:07 PM
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All four of these teams came within a second of Roth's time albeit at a shorter distance. What would have happened if one of these teams had beaten Roth's time at the mile relay by say less than the 1.1 second JAVMAN says they probably went past the 1600m mark. I'm assuming their time would have been erased as the meet record and taken down and forgotten. Did JAVMAN83 save their historic time?
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  #11  
Old 07-26-18, 12:56 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
All four of these teams came within a second of Roth's time albeit at a shorter distance. What would have happened if one of these teams had beaten Roth's time at the mile relay by say less than the 1.1 second JAVMAN says they probably went past the 1600m mark. I'm assuming their time would have been erased as the meet record and taken down and forgotten. Did JAVMAN83 save their historic time?
FYI - I've already begun building the Regions 4, 8, & 12 databases as a side project. I might release those as individual meets instead of as a block like I did with all 4 of the Cincinnati area meets. I'm not committing to any of it yet, but if I do, I might be targeting being completed by 2025, the 60th anniversary of the "Dayton" regionals, as they were originally configured.

For those that don't know, the regional system came about in 1965. Prior to that year, district meets served as the qualifier to the State meet. In the years leading up to 1965, only 2 athletes per district would qualify. With the increasing number of school districts spread across the then AA & A classifications, that left a whole lot of people at home after district. The addition of the intermediate step of a regional meet allowed for more participation, of course.

As for the Regions 4, 8, and 12 meets as they are known now, here is the outline of the structure of those meets going back to 1965:

BOYS
1965-1970 - Class AA (Large School) / Class A (Small Schools)
1971-1989 - Class AAA (Large) / Class AA (Medium) / Class A (Small)
1990-present - Division I / Division II / Division III

GIRLS
1975-1989 - Class AAA (Large) / Class AA (Medium) / Class A (Small)
1990-present - Division I / Division II / Division III

As for the site locations of each meet, they are:

1965-1989 - All Classes located at Welcome Stadium
Since 1990...

Division I
1990-2017 @ Welcome
2018 @ Wayne HS

Division II
1990-2016 @ Welcome
2017-present @ Piqua

Division III
1990-2000 @ Welcome
2001-07 @ Piqua
2008 @ Dayton
2009-12 @ Troy
2013 @ Piqua
2014-present @ Troy

Hope this adds some clarity.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-18, 01:41 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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As an interesting side note, Roth's 1980 record came on SATURDAY afternoon, a day after the rest of the meet had been finished. The mile relay was delayed from Friday night until Saturday afternoon due to storms. So, everyone had a "fresher" pair of legs to run on. The girls were able to run their mile relay on Friday night before the storms...Cincinnati Seton won the girls' mile relay in 4:03.2.

Roth went 1-2 in the boys' 440 that year @ Dayton: 1st - Laron Brown - 47.8 (Region 4 Record), and 2nd - Bennie Hollis - 47.9.

Quite a 1-2 punch on that mile relay team.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-18, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
As an interesting side note, Roth's 1980 record came on SATURDAY afternoon, a day after the rest of the meet had been finished. The mile relay was delayed from Friday night until Saturday afternoon due to storms. So, everyone had a "fresher" pair of legs to run on. The girls were able to run their mile relay on Friday night before the storms...Cincinnati Seton won the girls' mile relay in 4:03.2.

Roth went 1-2 in the boys' 440 that year @ Dayton: 1st - Laron Brown - 47.8 (Region 4 Record), and 2nd - Bennie Hollis - 47.9.

Quite a 1-2 punch on that mile relay team.
Hmm so your saying its game over if your behind going into 3rd leg.
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Old 07-26-18, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
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Hmm so your saying its game over if your behind going into 3rd leg.
If they are listed on the record in the order they ran (L Brown, A Saine, W Lauderdale, B Hollis), it was a 1-4 punch not a 1-2 punch.
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  #15  
Old 07-26-18, 12:31 PM
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If you check all the listed running records, only Roth's mile relay time is from the yards days (pre 1982), so only one boys record would need to be changed and no girls records. The fastest time in the 4 x 400 meter relay after 1981 is 3:14.97 from 2008 of the Trotwood Madison foursome of William Henry (10), Jordan Paschal (10), Donte Lyons (12), and Derricus Purdy.

Last edited by Lancermania; 07-26-18 at 12:56 PM..
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  #16  
Old 07-26-18, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
All four of these teams came within a second of Roth's time albeit at a shorter distance. What would have happened if one of these teams had beaten Roth's time at the mile relay by say less than the 1.1 second JAVMAN says they probably went past the 1600m mark. I'm assuming their time would have been erased as the meet record and taken down and forgotten. Did JAVMAN83 save their historic time?
What is the Regional Record in the 4x400 relay? Maybe the top few times also.
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Old 07-26-18, 05:47 PM
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What is the Regional Record in the 4x400 relay? Maybe the top few times also.
Ok i just saw the top time
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Old 07-26-18, 06:12 PM
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warriorblue, I don't see that your warriors ever won the regional 4 x 400 relay. Four teams run under 3:16 however.
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Old 07-26-18, 07:02 PM
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In reading the names of the runners, I thought that Keith Byars would be part of that team. Maybe my memory is off (which is getting more frequent), but I thought he also ran the 400 for Dayton Roth around that time frame - although 1980 may have been a year or two early. I ran at Welcome Stadium, and I still remember watching him run, and I have never seen a more muscular large guy run as fast as he did on that track.
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Old 07-26-18, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
warriorblue, I don't see that your warriors ever won the regional 4 x 400 relay. Four teams run under 3:16 however.
WW was literally 2 steps behind the winners of the Regional 4x400
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Old 07-26-18, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insidecorner View Post
In reading the names of the runners, I thought that Keith Byars would be part of that team. Maybe my memory is off (which is getting more frequent), but I thought he also ran the 400 for Dayton Roth around that time frame - although 1980 may have been a year or two early. I ran at Welcome Stadium, and I still remember watching him run, and I have never seen a more muscular large guy run as fast as he did on that track.
Keith Byars was a tailback at OSU from 1982-1985. He than went on to the NFL. He did run on Roth's 1982 state championship team in the 4 x 100 relay (42.41). I can also tell you that Laron C. Brown II of Roth set a new state record in the 400m of 47.08 in 1981

Last edited by Lancermania; 07-26-18 at 11:27 PM..
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Old 07-26-18, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorblue View Post
WW was literally 2 steps behind the winners of the Regional 4x400
Winton Woods (3:16.28) got beat by Middletown (3.15.63) at the Dayton Regional in 2007. They absolutely destroyed the Middies at state when the foursome of Corey Blake, Joe Booker, Bryon Toran, and Maurice Norman set the Cincinnati city record of 3:15.42 which they still hold some eleven years later.
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Old 07-27-18, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
If they are listed on the record in the order they ran (L Brown, A Saine, W Lauderdale, B Hollis), it was a 1-4 punch not a 1-2 punch.

It was a joke lancer
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Old 07-27-18, 11:30 AM
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skins started a joke that started the yappi world laughing, then skins finally told me that the joke was on me.
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Old 07-27-18, 01:29 PM
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skins started a joke that started the yappi world laughing, then skins finally told me that the joke was on me.
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  #26  
Old 07-27-18, 06:34 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Should Thurgood Marshall include Dayton Roth and Colonel White times in their record books?
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