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  #31  
Old 10-11-17, 01:40 PM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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There is nothing mediocre about the arms of Stephenson or Romano. Great arms. The question is can they harness it, locate better within the zone, and not walk 3-4 guys each start.
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  #32  
Old 10-11-17, 01:43 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
The problem is the Reds are loaded with pretty mediocre young arms beyond Castillo and potentially Mahle.
Luis Castillo was traded with Austin Brice from the Marlins for Dan Straily. Castillo had never been above double A before this year. You have no idea who is going to pan out and who is not. Johnny Cueto was 9-14 and 11-11 in this first two seasons with the Reds, ERA above 4.5. Many would have considered him a "mediocre" young arm at the time. Gotta let this play out...at least with the more young arms you have, the better chance of hitting a few big ones.
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  #33  
Old 10-11-17, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolves82 View Post
There is nothing mediocre about the arms of Stephenson or Romano. Great arms. The question is can they harness it, locate better within the zone, and not walk 3-4 guys each start.
Thatís a good point re: Stephenson. He reminds me of a young Homer.
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  #34  
Old 10-11-17, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Luis Castillo was traded with Austin Brice from the Marlins for Dan Straily. Castillo had never been above double A before this year. You have no idea who is going to pan out and who is not. Johnny Cueto was 9-14 and 11-11 in this first two seasons with the Reds, ERA above 4.5. Many would have considered him a "mediocre" young arm at the time. Gotta let this play out...at least with the more young arms you have, the better chance of hitting a few big ones.
Cueto was 22/23when he came up and made 61 starts over those two years Who is even remotely close to that among the Reds current young group?
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  #35  
Old 10-11-17, 03:10 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Are you saying Gennett could be a valuable trade piece? Or Hamilton?
Possibly. I'd trade Hamilton before Scooter though.
Maybe sign Scooter to a 4 yr/$30M deal. That would buy 2 yrs of Arbitration and 2 yrs of FA. He would be a FA at age 31. I would front load the deal in the first 2 years with $10/yr if you're not wanting a FA top line pitcher.
A deal like that would be attractive to Scooter I would think. It would also make him tradeable in the last 2 years of the deal if necessary. If the Reds aren't going to venture into the FA market now then it makes sense to front load a couple of contracts (Suarez?).

I don't think they'll be a big trade market for Scooter. He is past being cheap ($6M this year, $12-$14M next year if he duplicates his 2017 stats). If he can't repeat this season or at least come close then why would a team part with a bone fide starting pitcher for him? I think the Reds are better off trying to sign him now for 4 years if the price is right.
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  #36  
Old 10-11-17, 03:16 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
Thatís a good point re: Stephenson. He reminds me of a young Homer.
Stephenson and Romano both were strong in their last 7 or 8 starts. Their WHIP was still to high though. That would suggest that they learned how to pitch out of jams. Now they have to learn how to not get into jams and they'll go deeper into games. Mahle looked good in his short stint but I would expect him to spend most of next year at Louisville unless there are no other options.
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  #37  
Old 10-11-17, 03:17 PM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Gotcha. I like that idea a lot. Definitely trade Hamilton to a top team who could use a pinch runner and elite defensive 4th outfielder with some extra pocket change, think the big market teams like Yankees, Boston, Dodgers, etc. I could get behind that. They wouldn't even need to get a starting pitcher out of that. I'd settle for a reliable youngish arm in the bullpen. I don't know what any of the 3 named teams have in that department but it's what I would look for first.

I also like the idea of front loading Scooter's deal. 4 years seems sensible too. As you mentioned earlier, even if he regresses to a .275, 20 HR, 75 RBI ( I think those were the numbers you used) that's still somewhat solid. He'll be overpayed for a couple years if he produces that but not drastically so with his solid defense. Then that becomes a bargain.
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  #38  
Old 10-11-17, 03:28 PM
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I donít see them wasting Mahle in the minors next year at all.
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  #39  
Old 10-11-17, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by eastside_purple View Post
I donít see them wasting Mahle in the minors next year at all.
Who do you see as the rotation next year?
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  #40  
Old 10-11-17, 03:40 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Gotcha. I like that idea a lot. Definitely trade Hamilton to a top team who could use a pinch runner and elite defensive 4th outfielder with some extra pocket change, think the big market teams like Yankees, Boston, Dodgers, etc. I could get behind that. They wouldn't even need to get a starting pitcher out of that. I'd settle for a reliable youngish arm in the bullpen. I don't know what any of the 3 named teams have in that department but it's what I would look for first.

I also like the idea of front loading Scooter's deal. 4 years seems sensible too. As you mentioned earlier, even if he regresses to a .275, 20 HR, 75 RBI ( I think those were the numbers you used) that's still somewhat solid. He'll be overpayed for a couple years if he produces that but not drastically so with his solid defense. Then that becomes a bargain.
Front loading a couple of contracts now would allow them to keep the core together longer as others hit Arbitration in a couple years.
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  #41  
Old 10-11-17, 03:49 PM
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The Reds payroll after Arbitration (assuming no FA signings) will be around $93M next year. $87M if they trade Hamilton. That leaves an extra $10-$15M to spend. If they front load Gennett and Suarez now they'll have that much more to spend once Mez and Homer are off the books in the next two years. They would essentially have the same core team (assuming the starting pitching pans out)along with a lot of extra money to fill any needs to make a serious run.
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  #42  
Old 10-12-17, 07:51 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Indiandad View Post
Possibly. I'd trade Hamilton before Scooter though.
Maybe sign Scooter to a 4 yr/$30M deal. That would buy 2 yrs of Arbitration and 2 yrs of FA. He would be a FA at age 31. I would front load the deal in the first 2 years with $10/yr if you're not wanting a FA top line pitcher.
A deal like that would be attractive to Scooter I would think. It would also make him tradeable in the last 2 years of the deal if necessary. If the Reds aren't going to venture into the FA market now then it makes sense to front load a couple of contracts (Suarez?).

I don't think they'll be a big trade market for Scooter. He is past being cheap ($6M this year, $12-$14M next year if he duplicates his 2017 stats). If he can't repeat this season or at least come close then why would a team part with a bone fide starting pitcher for him? I think the Reds are better off trying to sign him now for 4 years if the price is right.
Second basemen in general have little value, so yes, I'd agree there isn't much of a market for Scooter. I do think he likes and wants to be in Cincy. He reminds me of a younger Scott Rolen. I think he's a good clubhouse guy as well. Likewise, I don't know that you're going to get much for Billy. And in watching the playoff games, how much of an advantage is it, in these close, tight games to have a guy that can do what Billy does on the bases? The stolen base/ bunting has almost evaporated from baseball.
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  #43  
Old 10-12-17, 08:23 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Second basemen in general have little value, so yes, I'd agree there isn't much of a market for Scooter. I do think he likes and wants to be in Cincy. He reminds me of a younger Scott Rolen. I think he's a good clubhouse guy as well. Likewise, I don't know that you're going to get much for Billy. And in watching the playoff games, how much of an advantage is it, in these close, tight games to have a guy that can do what Billy does on the bases? The stolen base/ bunting has almost evaporated from baseball.
What has he done that makes you think he likes and wants to be in Cincinnati?

In tight playoff games, such as last night for the Yankees/Indians, having Billy Hamilton would be huge. So a team that is very solid in the bullpen and has deep pockets, like the Yankees, might give up a reliable young arm in the bullpen.
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  #44  
Old 10-12-17, 09:48 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
What has he done that makes you think he likes and wants to be in Cincinnati?

In tight playoff games, such as last night for the Yankees/Indians, having Billy Hamilton would be huge. So a team that is very solid in the bullpen and has deep pockets, like the Yankees, might give up a reliable young arm in the bullpen.
I believe he's from Lebanon, Ohio. That might be the reason he'd want to stay. Could also be the reason he'd want out.
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  #45  
Old 10-12-17, 09:50 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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I believe he's from Lebanon, Ohio. That might be the reason he'd want to stay. Could also be the reason he'd want out.
Maybe, but doubtful. My understanding is he didn't live in Lebanon/Cincinnati for very long. Went to high school in Florida.
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  #46  
Old 10-12-17, 10:15 AM
Irwin20 Irwin20 is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Maybe, but doubtful. My understanding is he didn't live in Lebanon/Cincinnati for very long. Went to high school in Florida.
Ok, I work with a woman who said she went to HS with him in Lebanon. Maybe she's BSing, wouldn't be surprised.
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  #47  
Old 10-12-17, 10:45 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Ok, I work with a woman who said she went to HS with him in Lebanon. Maybe she's BSing, wouldn't be surprised.
She might be telling a partial truth. maybe he transferred while he was still in high school. However mlb.com, Wikipedia and baseball-reference.com all list him as being drafted from Sarasota High School.
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  #48  
Old 10-12-17, 10:54 AM
wolves82 wolves82 is offline
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if only we had some way to access all of the world's computers from our computer... Born in Cincinnati, drafted out of Sarasota, FL HS. Not specified when he moved to FL.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...ennesc01.shtml
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  #49  
Old 10-12-17, 11:00 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Yeah, thanks for posting exactly what I posted 9 minutes before you.
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  #50  
Old 10-12-17, 11:06 AM
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From Lebanon, moved to Florida when he was 10, so he could play baseball year round.
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  #51  
Old 10-12-17, 11:17 AM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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The country Lebanon?
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  #52  
Old 10-12-17, 01:19 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
What has he done that makes you think he likes and wants to be in Cincinnati?

In tight playoff games, such as last night for the Yankees/Indians, having Billy Hamilton would be huge. So a team that is very solid in the bullpen and has deep pockets, like the Yankees, might give up a reliable young arm in the bullpen.
I believe he's from the Cincy area, he had a great year and his employer paid him alot of money to play a game???

You and I see that Taco, why wouldn't a baseball GM have seen that a few months ago?
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  #53  
Old 10-12-17, 02:51 PM
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The country Lebanon?
He's Lebanese.
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  #54  
Old 10-12-17, 05:03 PM
Monclova Steve Monclova Steve is offline
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The Reds' broadcasters on Fox have talked quite a few times about Scooter's path to the big leagues.
He grew up in the Cincy suburbs, displaying a definite talent for baseball. His dad was actually a scout for the Astros; and yes (talk about a baseball helicopter parent!) they moved to Florida so that Scooter could play baseball year-round to develop his talents.
It appears to have worked.
Here's a little info:
https://www.famousbirthdays.com/peop...r-gennett.html
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  #55  
Old 10-12-17, 06:32 PM
Indiandad Indiandad is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
The Reds' broadcasters on Fox have talked quite a few times about Scooter's path to the big leagues.
He grew up in the Cincy suburbs, displaying a definite talent for baseball. His dad was actually a scout for the Astros; and yes (talk about a baseball helicopter parent!) they moved to Florida so that Scooter could play baseball year-round to develop his talents.
It appears to have worked.
Here's a little info:
https://www.famousbirthdays.com/peop...r-gennett.html
The real question is would he be willing to forego 2 years of FA and less total money for the security of a long term deal now? Preferably one that is front loaded.

Conversely, do the Reds believe this season was the real Scooter or just a fluke? Will they offer him a deal, arbitration or look to Trade him?
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  #56  
Old 10-12-17, 07:27 PM
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/blogred...ni-free-agent/

Can the Reds pull off this miracle?
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  #57  
Old 10-12-17, 09:49 PM
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The Cubs not trading Addison Russell for Cozart is really paying dividends tonight.
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  #58  
Old 10-13-17, 07:28 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
I believe he's from the Cincy area, he had a great year and his employer paid him alot of money to play a game???

You and I see that Taco, why wouldn't a baseball GM have seen that a few months ago?
He apparently didn't spend much of his life here. So? And every MLB team will pay him a lot of money to pay a game. So basically you have no reason to think Gennett would love to stay in Cincinnati. Got it.

Maybe the Reds were stupid and asked for too much. Maybe teams have zero confidence in Billy's bat and will only pinch run him in the 9th inning and don't want to waste money on that. Maybe teams GMs have met Billy before and think he's an azz. There's a million reasons.
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  #59  
Old 10-13-17, 07:58 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Monclova Steve View Post
The Reds' broadcasters on Fox have talked quite a few times about Scooter's path to the big leagues.
He grew up in the Cincy suburbs, displaying a definite talent for baseball. His dad was actually a scout for the Astros; and yes (talk about a baseball helicopter parent!) they moved to Florida so that Scooter could play baseball year-round to develop his talents.
It appears to have worked.
Here's a little info:
https://www.famousbirthdays.com/peop...r-gennett.html
Obviously Taco doesn't watch the Reds broadcasts, he just trolls on message boards and slams other peoples opinions on things they know more about than he does...
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  #60  
Old 10-13-17, 08:01 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
He apparently didn't spend much of his life here. So? And every MLB team will pay him a lot of money to pay a game. So basically you have no reason to think Gennett would love to stay in Cincinnati. Got it.

Maybe the Reds were stupid and asked for too much. Maybe teams have zero confidence in Billy's bat and will only pinch run him in the 9th inning and don't want to waste money on that. Maybe teams GMs have met Billy before and think he's an azz. There's a million reasons.
Contrary to your opinion, which few share, Billy has alot of value and the Reds certainly aren't going to give him away. He's an elite defensive player and possesses speed that few have in baseball. His inability to get on base is an issue, but as I've said here dozens of times, when he's on base, he's a treat to score more than just about anyone else in the game.
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