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  #331  
Old 09-21-18, 05:22 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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People still playing the "he disrespected the military" card lol
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  #332  
Old 09-21-18, 05:36 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
Yup. It was a brilliant ad
meh


If you like assumptive, pretentious, self-indulgent, and selectively myopic, I guess it was the shizzle.
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  #333  
Old 09-21-18, 05:38 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Kap has a point though, way too many blacks, many unarmed, get killed by police when they shouldn't.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/...aaron-bandler#
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  #334  
Old 09-21-18, 06:23 PM
Heavy Hitter 1 Heavy Hitter 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
People still playing the "he disrespected the military" card lol
And Kap is still playing "the injustice" card and saying that is why he out of the NFL lol.
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  #335  
Old 09-21-18, 06:45 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Cool, has nothing to do with my post.
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  #336  
Old 09-21-18, 09:12 PM
Heavy Hitter 1 Heavy Hitter 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
Cool, has nothing to do with my post.
Actually it is the same thing just looking at it from the other side.
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  #337  
Old 09-21-18, 09:40 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Heavy Hitter 1 View Post
And Kap is still playing "the injustice" card and saying that is why he out of the NFL lol.
What other reason is he out of the league other than being blacklisted by owners.

HIs last season he had 60 percent completions, 16 TDs and 4 INT's.

HIs talent alone is good enough to be on a roster or at the very least signed and brought in.
There are some awful backups in this league
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  #338  
Old 09-21-18, 09:43 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Heavy Hitter 1 View Post
This a load of crap! It doesn't matter if he is white or black he was kneeling during the national anthem. People that where against would have been against a white guy who did the same for the same reasons. It is offensive to to people because it disrespect the military and people who gave their live for our country. Just like burning the flag, you can be white or black but the back lash will be the same.
You do realize it was a member of the military, spec ops I believe, whom suggested he kneel instead of sitting right?
I know a little bit about the military and know for a fact that many believe in Kaps right, and any others, to do what he does.


They may not agree with it, but an overwhelming response is military members who back his right to do it.
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  #339  
Old 09-21-18, 11:28 PM
Heavy Hitter 1 Heavy Hitter 1 is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
What other reason is he out of the league other than being blacklisted by owners.

HIs last season he had 60 percent completions, 16 TDs and 4 INT's.

HIs talent alone is good enough to be on a roster or at the very least signed and brought in.
There are some awful backups in this league
Here is a couple

Miami was interested but he did wear a Castro shirt in Miami. That doesn't go over well with local community. Ravens were interested then his girl friend compares the owner of the Ravens Steve Bisciotti and Ozzie Newsome to the characters Leonardo DiCaprio and Samuel L. Jackson played in Django Unchained. Hmmm wonder why teams started shying away from him.

You are right, it is right to kneel heck it is his right to burn a flag if he wants. But he also has to deal with the backlash. Just because he says why he is doing it doesn't mean it going to changed what other people believe that symbol means to them. You can find military people who are ok with it and you can find military people who completely disagree with it.
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  #340  
Old 09-22-18, 08:01 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Not at all but race has a huge influence on the hatred that he has received.
It is a free country and don't forget whom suggested he kneel for the anthem instead of sitting.....a white Veteran.

If it were Tom Brady, or Rodgers or some popular whitey whom knelt for some social reason then it would have been a totally different outpouring of emotions.

You cannot deny that race has played zero in this backlash.

Kap should, and I hope he does, win his case against the NFL for collusion.
So, people who think everyone should stand for the national anthem are racists?
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  #341  
Old 09-22-18, 08:31 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
What other reason is he out of the league other than being blacklisted by owners.

HIs last season he had 60 percent completions, 16 TDs and 4 INT's.

HIs talent alone is good enough to be on a roster or at the very least signed and brought in.
There are some awful backups in this league
Yes, there are some awful backups in the league. But they are really good at their main job. Be quiet and hold on to the clipboard. Kap isn't good at the first part of the job responsibility and thus he isn't in the league.
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  #342  
Old 09-22-18, 09:00 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by Heavy Hitter 1 View Post
Here is a couple

Miami was interested but he did wear a Castro shirt in Miami. That doesn't go over well with local community. Ravens were interested then his girl friend compares the owner of the Ravens Steve Bisciotti and Ozzie Newsome to the characters Leonardo DiCaprio and Samuel L. Jackson played in Django Unchained. Hmmm wonder why teams started shying away from him.

You are right, it is right to kneel heck it is his right to burn a flag if he wants. But he also has to deal with the backlash. Just because he says why he is doing it doesn't mean it going to changed what other people believe that symbol means to them. You can find military people who are ok with it and you can find military people who completely disagree with it.
Absolutely. That is my argument to those who are adamant the he has the right to do so and stand behind the fact it is a free country and he can do what he wants and THAT IT IS WRONG TO CRITICIZE HIM.

People who support him forget the part that while he has the right to kneel, we also have the right to voice our opinions against him for doing so.


I agree that the crapstorm he has created may have some reason why teams stay away but at the end of the day owners and gm's want to win. They welcome back drug users and other people who commit crimes and some who are even violent offenders if they can help your team win.


Kap as a backup could be a very important part of a contender who need solid backup play to keep their playoff hopes alive if their starter goes down. People want to spout that he sucked and that is why he got benched. When I heard that about the 50th time I looked at his last season stats the other day and they are not bad at all. 16/4 and the ability to run and 60% comp is very good especially for a team needing an arm.


When nike came out with this I scratched my head wondering why. Then I looked at their target audience. Who is at the core of buying sneakers? Your 40 plus white dude (this isnt new balance)?
After an initial drop their sales sored.

I am not a Kap fan. Not at all. I think what he is doing is misguided. HIs best play would have been to kneel at the beginning and put out a statement about social injustice and then moving forward start his activism all while standing for the Anthem, playing in the NFL and becoming an even bigger public figure.

The ad compaign is extremely good. If you can genuinely poo poo it then obviously your opinion is of hatred toward him and not the message Nike is putting out.

I do believe a main reason for the outrage is his race. People want to deny it but racism is still out there and this is a prime example.



In terms of finding military members who are against what he did...Sure. YOu will find them. You will find all sort of thoughts in the military. What I have found though is it is the families of military members who have more outrage than those actually serving while those who serve may not agree, but will always stand behind Kaps right to sit or kneel
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  #343  
Old 09-22-18, 03:56 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
What other reason is he out of the league other than being blacklisted by owners.

HIs last season he had 60 percent completions, 16 TDs and 4 INT's.

HIs talent alone is good enough to be on a roster or at the very least signed and brought in.
There are some awful backups in this league
His last 2 seasons he was 3-16. He was averaging under 7 yds per completion and 2200 yards. Not exactly a blue-chip option, but the word has been that a couple of teams reached out to him and he wanted more money than anyone was willing to pay.

He may have been good enough to be an NFL backup, the question for any GM, owner, coach is if his baggage is more than his worth as a backup. The prevailing answer seems to be "no". And now, the answer is probably never again.
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  #344  
Old 09-22-18, 04:05 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
You do realize it was a member of the military, spec ops I believe, whom suggested he kneel instead of sitting right?
I know a little bit about the military and know for a fact that many believe in Kaps right, and any others, to do what he does.

They may not agree with it, but an overwhelming response is military members who back his right to do it.
Military members absolutely agree that he has the RIGHT to protest, it's just not the right protest. There is a sizeable military contingent on this board and none of us have said he doesn't have the right to protest, having said that - we almost universally condemn the act of his protest.

That particular member of the military (by the way, you could actually find a single person in the military that could take ANY point in an argument, it's kind of a testament to the diversity of our military). Boyer advised that taking a knee was a middle ground between sitting (which was how CK started) and standing.

Quote:
Boyer recalls. "And, you know, he asked me to do it with him. And I said, 'Look, I'll stand next to you. I gotta stand though. I gotta stand with my hand on my heart. That's just-- that's just what I do and where I'm from.'" The two met and took a picture together, but Boyer wasn't willing to take a knee.
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  #345  
Old 09-22-18, 07:31 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Military members absolutely agree that he has the RIGHT to protest, it's just not the right protest. There is a sizeable military contingent on this board and none of us have said he doesn't have the right to protest, having said that - we almost universally condemn the act of his protest.

That particular member of the military (by the way, you could actually find a single person in the military that could take ANY point in an argument, it's kind of a testament to the diversity of our military). Boyer advised that taking a knee was a middle ground between sitting (which was how CK started) and standing.
So do you feel it is disrespectful to the military that he kneels because, as you state, the military will always stand for his right to do so?

I was only responding to the comment by whomever who stated it was
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  #346  
Old 09-22-18, 08:53 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
So do you feel it is disrespectful to the military that he kneels because, as you state, the military will always stand for his right to do so?

I was only responding to the comment by whomever who stated it was
I believe it is disrespectful to the military that protected his right to protest, the country that provides an opportunity for someone to make millions of dollars to play a game, and to the police that protect his sorry butt regardless of his personal animosity to them.

Having said that, yes he has the right to protest, and everyone else in the country has the right to react however they want to - including ridiculing him, ignoring him, honoring him, or not employing him.
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  #347  
Old 09-22-18, 09:24 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
I believe it is disrespectful to the military that protected his right to protest, the country that provides an opportunity for someone to make millions of dollars to play a game, and to the police that protect his sorry butt regardless of his personal animosity to them.

Having said that, yes he has the right to protest, and everyone else in the country has the right to react however they want to - including ridiculing him, ignoring him, honoring him, or not employing him.
Disagree.
For a league who employees those who use and abuse illegal drugs and commit violent crimes but dont employee someone because he knelt and protested?

He should win his collusion suit.

To lose your job standing up for something you believe it (that is legal, not against employer rules) is just plain wrong.

My employer routinely discriminated against me and then ultimately cut my hours by 30 plus percent (which was absolutely illegal and I can file suit if I so choose) for doing something that I wholeheartedly believe in.
Its not the same situation I admit but I do know how it feels for an employer who discriminates.
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  #348  
Old 09-23-18, 05:46 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Disagree.
For a league who employees those who use and abuse illegal drugs and commit violent crimes but dont employee someone because he knelt and protested?

He should win his collusion suit.

To lose your job standing up for something you believe it (that is legal, not against employer rules) is just plain wrong.

My employer routinely discriminated against me and then ultimately cut my hours by 30 plus percent (which was absolutely illegal and I can file suit if I so choose) for doing something that I wholeheartedly believe in.
a local University canned their person in charge of equal rights hiring because off the job in a church communication she denounced homosexuality. She lost the court cases.

"legal" may not be what you think.

and when you say, "not against employer rules," why are you convinced that is the case here? It would be impossible to count the number of entertainers that lose their job just because they cease being entertaining, they risk the bottom line. They can still act, run or whatever their function was but they are in the entertainment business. NFL was losing customers. That's not controversial and those contracts all have that clause.

How specific do you want mandates for "job performance?" A company would be under so much paperwork, we'd ALL lose jobs. He has a union to fight his fight. If he feels his union failed to represent, maybe he could attempt collusion between the Union and the contractor, he might have Federal law on his side.
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  #349  
Old 09-23-18, 06:13 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
Disagree.
For a league who employees those who use and abuse illegal drugs and commit violent crimes but dont employee someone because he knelt and protested?
..
Most people in this country are employed "at will", that means at the will of the employer. The employer can fire you for any number of reasons related to your job or for absolutely no reason.

Players are released all the time, last years' Pro Bowler may be too expensive for this years' salary cap. The average NFL career is 4 years, the line for keeping and releasing a player can be razor thin. The sentence above is probably the most compelling piece of truth as to why CK is walking the streets vs playing - if he could play AND his attitude/message/baggage was manageable he'd be playing. The league has a track record of playing anyone that can contribute victories, but they also have a record of walking away from those whose outside problems are bigger than their skills.
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  #350  
Old 09-23-18, 07:54 AM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
What other reason is he out of the league other than being blacklisted by owners.
He has demonstrated that success on the field is not his #1 football priority.

His abilities as a backup QB are exceeded by the media distraction his presence would bring to the team.

Almost any team that signs him to a contract will eventually be criticized as racist if they do not make him the starter.

Almost any team that signs him will have fans that protest and perhaps picket or boycott.

Any team that signs him will be criticized as racist when they release him.

If he is willing to sue the league, will he sue the team that signs him and then does not start him or releases him?
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  #351  
Old 09-23-18, 08:08 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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Still a good commercial targeting the audience Nike seeks and creating a lot of free attention for the brand. Nike knows what it is doing.

Nike shares have surged 36 percent on the year, making the company the top performer on the Dow's index of 30 blue-chip stocks. The run-up includes a nearly 5 percent increase since Nike's Labor Day announcement that Kaepernick would be featured in its campaign, adding nearly $6 billion to the company's market value.

The stock continues to hover near an all-time high, which it reached in mid-September only weeks after some Nike customers publicly burned their shoes to express their displeasure at the new ad.

In afternoon trading Nike shares were up slightly to $85.67.

For Nike, the boost eases concerns about the decision to link its brand to the controversial Kaepernick, who in 2016 started kneeling during the national anthem before games to protest racial injustice.

Nike knows its consumer base, which skews younger, said Art Hogan, chief market strategist at B. Riley RBR. "I don't think they just randomly decided to put this ad out, thinking, 'Let's commit political-correctness suicide'."
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  #352  
Old 09-23-18, 09:43 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
He has demonstrated that success on the field is not his #1 football priority.

His abilities as a backup QB are exceeded by the media distraction his presence would bring to the team.

Almost any team that signs him to a contract will eventually be criticized as racist if they do not make him the starter.

Almost any team that signs him will have fans that protest and perhaps picket or boycott.

Any team that signs him will be criticized as racist when they release him.

If he is willing to sue the league, will he sue the team that signs him and then does not start him or releases him?
He does have a collusion suit against the league. NFL tried to get it dismissed but it was found to have enough merit to proceed to trial I believe.

I believe he has a point and could win.
WIth that said, it is VERY difficult to win a collusion suit.

Should he win? I think so.

Will he? Doubtful, extremely difficult to prove it.
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  #353  
Old 09-23-18, 09:44 AM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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I am in no way Nike's core base that is for sure but as long as they continue to produce the running shoe I prefer I will be a customer.
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  #354  
Old 09-23-18, 09:51 AM
Happygoluckky Happygoluckky is online now
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
He does have a collusion suit against the league. NFL tried to get it dismissed but it was found to have enough merit to proceed to trial I believe.

I believe he has a point and could win.
WIth that said, it is VERY difficult to win a collusion suit.

Should he win? I think so.

Will he? Doubtful, extremely difficult to prove it.
Agree but never underestimate the stupidity of some of the NFL owners...putting something on email or making a public statement that could pop up.
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  #355  
Old 09-23-18, 10:36 AM
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You should listen to happy when it comes to how hard it is to prove collusion. He has been upset about that for almost 2 years now.

But as it comes to kap....he took a stand (or a knee) for something he feels strongly about. Good for him even though it is misguided. Now he is seeing those choices have consequences and they are impacting him negatively. He's not out of the league because he is black. He's out because his skills aren't needed, he wanted too much money to be a backup, and there is too much controversy that follows him. Teams don't need the distraction and could use that money to pay someone more valuable to the team more money to keep him there.

As far as his suit goes it wasn't a high bar to clear to with the arbiter to allow it to continue to a full hearing. And with all the circus around it it could certainly be argued that the arbiter didn't have much choice but to let it proceed. It shouldn't matter but with all the political issues involved with this case the best choice is probably let it move along to avoid the appearance of any bias or underhandedness. Give kap his day in court. Still probably will have the same results...he won't have a job.
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  #356  
Old 09-23-18, 12:40 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Military members absolutely agree that he has the RIGHT to protest, it's just not the right protest. There is a sizeable military contingent on this board and none of us have said he doesn't have the right to protest, having said that - we almost universally condemn the act of his protest.

That particular member of the military (by the way, you could actually find a single person in the military that could take ANY point in an argument, it's kind of a testament to the diversity of our military). Boyer advised that taking a knee was a middle ground between sitting (which was how CK started) and standing.
Seems to me that it's mainly the older veterans who are sensitive about the whole ordeal.
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  #357  
Old 09-23-18, 02:19 PM
chs1971 chs1971 is offline
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Originally Posted by thavoice View Post
He does have a collusion suit against the league. NFL tried to get it dismissed but it was found to have enough merit to proceed to trial I believe.

I believe he has a point and could win.
WIth that said, it is VERY difficult to win a collusion suit.

Should he win? I think so.

Will he? Doubtful, extremely difficult to prove it.
I know he is suing the NFL. I'm sorry I did not make myself clear.

I don't think he has any chance to win his collusion suit as there is no reason to believe there is collusion.
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  #358  
Old 09-23-18, 03:30 PM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is offline
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Originally Posted by chs1971 View Post
I know he is suing the NFL. I'm sorry I did not make myself clear.

I don't think he has any chance to win his collusion suit as there is no reason to believe there is collusion.
UNLESS he met with the Russians at Trump Tower to go over Hillary's email server and fired Comey to get a contract with the Ravens.....
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  #359  
Old 09-23-18, 04:06 PM
thavoice thavoice is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
Seems to me that it's mainly the older veterans who are sensitive about the whole ordeal.
Yeah, seems more like the old crusty vets and families who believe their soldiers are being dissed.
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  #360  
Old 09-23-18, 04:30 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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It's astounding that even after stating the kneeling wasn't meant to disrespect veterans(and that he actually has a ton of respect for veterans), there are still people who play the "disrespecting the veterans" card. The types of people I see most butthurt by the kneeling either never served(but they always come from a strong military family), or those who stake their entire identity on their past service.
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