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  #91  
Old 02-15-19, 06:52 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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How the offense has fallen apart,play in the B1G championship and go home...please no NIT it's too hard to watch this group.
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  #92  
Old 02-15-19, 07:19 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Holtmann after the loss last night : And a lot of team would like to be in the bubble picture, including the one we played tonight. I think for us right now, our focus is not on bubble or anything like that ( copied from Eleven Warriors )

This is Ohio State, expectations are a little higher than being a bubble team, and Holtmann gets paid too well for his teams too be bubble teams, you're not at Gardner Webb anymore Chris.

Last edited by Stirred not Shaken; 02-15-19 at 12:19 PM..
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  #93  
Old 02-15-19, 01:38 PM
Cedar_Point Cedar_Point is offline
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Originally Posted by brian1227 View Post
Ncaa hopes are over.
Still a 9 seed according to Jerry Palm
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  #94  
Old 02-15-19, 01:41 PM
Cedar_Point Cedar_Point is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Holtmann after the loss last night : And a lot of team would like to be in the bubble picture, including the one we played tonight. I think for us right now, our focus is not on bubble or anything like that ( copied from Eleven Warriors )

This is Ohio State, expectations are a little higher than being a bubble team, and Holtmann gets paid too well for his teams too be bubble teams, you're not at Gardner Webb anymore Chris.
So what would you like him to do? Itís not his fault they turn the ball over 20 times a game. Itís not his fault Kaleb Wassen commits stupid fouls. Itís not his fault CJ Jackson and Andre Wesson are garbage
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  #95  
Old 02-15-19, 01:52 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Their focus should be on getting a little bit better every game, since they can lose to just about any major conference team with their ball security problems. Nothing's a gimme with the flaws they have.

Nobody should be talking tournament with these guys. Just what do they have to do to win against the next opponent.

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  #96  
Old 02-15-19, 03:32 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Cedar_Point View Post
So what would you like him to do? It’s not his fault they turn the ball over 20 times a game. It’s not his fault Kaleb Wassen commits stupid fouls. It’s not his fault CJ Jackson and Andre Wesson are garbage
Answer to the 1st question it is never acceptable for OSU to be a bubble team as he seemed to have suggested. Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but is it not at least some of the coaches fault for the turnovers and the lack of progress of the overall team. If Holtmann can not make a difference than why is he one of the higher paid coaches in college bball, some of the turnovers are just inexcusable. Did not Holtmann recruit the current frosh class and bring in Jallow and Young along with Wesson ( Matta recruit ) from last season also believe he brought Woods in as a transfer.
I am willing to give Holtmann another year to succeed but he is the HC this year and has to take some of the responsibility for this years teams showing.
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  #97  
Old 02-15-19, 05:12 PM
Cedar_Point Cedar_Point is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
Answer to the 1st question it is never acceptable for OSU to be a bubble team as he seemed to have suggested. Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not but is it not at least some of the coaches fault for the turnovers and the lack of progress of the overall team. If Holtmann can not make a difference than why is he one of the higher paid coaches in college bball, some of the turnovers are just inexcusable. Did not Holtmann recruit the current frosh class and bring in Jallow and Young along with Wesson ( Matta recruit ) from last season also believe he brought Woods in as a transfer.
I am willing to give Holtmann another year to succeed but he is the HC this year and has to take some of the responsibility for this years teams showing.
Obviously the head coach is going to take the blame for the season, but until he gets all his own guys he can’t truly be judged. I looked up the players to’s and minutes played, since that’s clearly their biggest problem. I broke it up into the 8 players that are in the rotation.

CJ Jackson 31 min/game 2.7 to/game
Kaleb Wesson 25 min/game 2.25 to/game
Andre Wesson 29 min/game 1.7 to/game
Keyshawn Woods 26 min/game 1.4 to/game
Luther Mohammad 30 min/game 1.4 to/game
Kyle Young 22 min/game 1.4 to/game
Musa Jallow 14 min/game .6 to/game

3 things that stand out:
1)The 3 worse at turning the ball over are Matta’s recruits and only one is a guard
2)Post players (K.Wesson and Young) should not be turning the ball over that much
3) the arrival of DJ Carton, a true PG, can’t come soon enough

Also if you want Holtmann gone that means you have to find his replacement. Good luck with that
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  #98  
Old 02-15-19, 07:09 PM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Where did I ever say I want Holtmann fired, I hope he wins the NCAA tourney next year, however I am not going to give him a pass for the lousy ball handling that this team has shown this year, I mean isn't it the coaches job to make sure his team improves as the season progresses and not digress. CJ Jackson last season avg. 3.9 assists to 2.1 turnovers, and the season before 2.9 to 1.1, what happened. As far as Wesson ( Ohio POY ) and Young only college coach they have known is Holtmann it is his responsibility along with the players to make sure the players improve. As I stated before Thad Matta won the BIG in his 2nd year as OSU coach and he took over a team that was on probation.
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  #99  
Old 02-15-19, 08:13 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I would much rather take Ohio State's current position over Indiana and Illinois -- two programs (both better jobs than OSU IMO) that are at the same juncture in a recent regime change as OSU.

There are a lot of good/well respected head coaches in the Big Ten at the present. It's very difficult to win league games. If either of these schools want to bail on a Holtmann, Underwood or Miller after 2-3 years they're crazy. That just sets you further behind the established programs like Sparty, Michigan and Purdue, and makes it tougher to find the next guy as it appears you lack the patience to let them recruit their guys to fit their systems.

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  #100  
Old 02-16-19, 10:11 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
I would much rather take Ohio State's current position over Indiana and Illinois -- two programs (both better jobs than OSU IMO) that are at the same juncture in a recent regime change as OSU.

There are a lot of good/well respected head coaches in the Big Ten at the present. It's very difficult to win league games. If either of these schools want to bail on a Holtmann, Underwood or Miller after 2-3 years they're crazy. That just sets you further behind the established programs like Sparty, Michigan and Purdue, and makes it tougher to find the next guy as it appears you lack the patience to let them recruit their guys to fit their systems.

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No way is Illinois a better job than OSU. The resources that OSU has is second to no one in America. In fact OSU has the 3rd most BIG titles in bball with 20 Purdue has 23 and Indy 22. OSU had to vacate 2 titles otherwise they would be tied for 2nd most. With Matta winning 5 of those titles.
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  #101  
Old 02-16-19, 12:52 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
No way is Illinois a better job than OSU. The resources that OSU has is second to no one in America. In fact OSU has the 3rd most BIG titles in bball with 20 Purdue has 23 and Indy 22. OSU had to vacate 2 titles otherwise they would be tied for 2nd most. With Matta winning 5 of those titles.
It's actually a basketball school and I'd take metro Chicago over any other recruiting ground in the country. 17 BIG titles. 2nd in all-time wins among BIG schools (behind Indiana), and they have the best all-time winning percentage of any BIG school.

I think Ohio State is a good basketball job, but reality is it will always be a football school no matter how well the basketball program does, and there's a horde of basketball jobs in this league that are good when there's a solid coach and an established program. Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, Maryland, and Wisconsin. There are far more programs that are legit competitors in basketball than there are in football.

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  #102  
Old 02-16-19, 01:13 PM
EagleGuy EagleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo View Post
How the offense has fallen apart,play in the B1G championship and go home...please no NIT it's too hard to watch this group.
That game was harder to watch than paint drying. Losing to the Illini is no shame, but at home?
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  #103  
Old 02-17-19, 02:51 PM
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brian1227 brian1227 is offline
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Fire holt man he sucks.
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  #104  
Old 02-17-19, 03:04 PM
wrestlingdad1 wrestlingdad1 is offline
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Fire holt man he sucks.
Rumor has it you want Holtman fired.
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  #105  
Old 02-17-19, 03:21 PM
Yellow_Jacket06 Yellow_Jacket06 is offline
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2 points in the last 7:40. Just ugly.

But it's still asinine to call for Holtmann's head. B1G COTY last year and a solid recruiting class coming in next season.
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  #106  
Old 02-17-19, 04:45 PM
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brian1227 brian1227 is offline
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His coaching is just awful.
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  #107  
Old 02-17-19, 04:51 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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This team was picked to finish like 12th in the BIG this year by the "experts". Today included a few stretches where they looked like it.

The home stretch, including today, doesn't involve any opponents they actually beat the first go-around this year. Besides those games, they have a pair against NW and a season finale with Wisconsin. If they could sweep NW and manage to split their other four remaining games, all ranked opponents, I'd consider that to be a solid ending to the season.

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  #108  
Old 02-18-19, 09:52 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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Originally Posted by Yellow_Jacket06 View Post
2 points in the last 7:40. Just ugly.

But it's still asinine to call for Holtmann's head. B1G COTY last year and a solid recruiting class coming in next season.
BIG COTY doesn't mean much. Tom Crean was BIG COTY after the 15 - 16 season than was fired after the following season. Its not only that OSU is losing but how they are losing that is so frustrating. The offense is just plain bad : The teamís offensive rating of 69.3 versus the Spartans was the worst since KenPom.com was created 18 years ago ( from Eleven Warriors ). To make only one fg in the last 12 min. of the game is almost unbelievable, the end of season can not come fast enough.
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  #109  
Old 02-18-19, 11:04 AM
Cedar_Point Cedar_Point is offline
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Still a 9 seed in most brackets
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  #110  
Old 02-18-19, 05:35 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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That's hard to believe. They still have a handful of tough games left, though. Either they'll play their way in with a few wins down the stretch, or, given their remaining schedule, I wouldn't be surprised either if they rack up a ton of losses to finish the year and play their way out of any post-season.

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  #111  
Old 02-18-19, 06:29 PM
Cedar_Point Cedar_Point is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
That's hard to believe. They still have a handful of tough games left, though. Either they'll play their way in with a few wins down the stretch, or, given their remaining schedule, I wouldn't be surprised either if they rack up a ton of losses to finish the year and play their way out of any post-season.

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You have to also look at the other teams, not just the Bucks. The bubble is very very weak this year
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  #112  
Old 02-18-19, 06:44 PM
wrestlingdad1 wrestlingdad1 is offline
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I really hope they dont make the tourny. I don't think I can watch another performance like that.
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  #113  
Old 02-18-19, 07:11 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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You have to also look at the other teams, not just the Bucks. The bubble is very very weak this year
I've seen a surprising amount of talk this year online about some teams from traditional one big leagues being legitimate bubble teams. A few of the major conferences, especially the PAC, just seem to be really weak this year after the top few teams.

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  #114  
Old 02-19-19, 06:57 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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The senior leadership was not consistent,one or two good games but more bad ones...too many Freshman and second year players together that didn't jell.
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  #115  
Old 02-19-19, 07:17 AM
Cedar_Point Cedar_Point is offline
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This a site I like to look at this time of year http://www.bracketmatrix.com

It averages out 131 brackets different people make. Ohio State didn’t make the field of only one bracket
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  #116  
Old 02-19-19, 07:38 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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The senior leadership was not consistent,one or two good games but more bad ones...too many Freshman and second year players together that didn't jell.
That's because Matta failed at recruiting and left just one senior and one junior the roster. And neither of them all that good. I'm not sure what people expected from this team. Anyone with expectations of for sure making the tourney and going on a run are nothing short of delusional. Holtmann had about a month to sign his first recruiting class and that class consisted of one kid from Butler who followed Holtmann, one had to be convinced last minute to reclassify and graduate a full year early and then obviously holding onto Kaleb. His second class is solid but features no one and done type guys. With the lack of upperclassmen (and talent in those upperclassmen), and no one and done type players just being in the conversation for an NCAA tourney this year is exceeding any reasonable expectations.
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  #117  
Old 02-19-19, 07:45 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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That's because Matta failed at recruiting and left just one senior and one junior the roster. And neither of them all that good.
LOL this is Holtmann's team, once again when Matta was hired he took over a program coming off probation, 2 cons. losing BIG seasons and in his 2nd year won the BIG. Now granted Matta was an exceptional coach and it is hard to expect anyone to match those expectations but this team is not playing very good bball. partly because of very bad fundamentals. Did not hear anyone complain last season about how the cupboard was left bare by Matta with KBD and Tate ( Matta recruits ) on the team.

Last edited by Stirred not Shaken; 02-19-19 at 08:08 AM..
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  #118  
Old 02-19-19, 08:03 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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What is most disappointing about this years OSU team, is the lack of progression from any player. Keyshawn Woods a grad transfer from Wake Forest who avg. 12 ppg. at WF ( his last 2 seasons ) is almost non existent offensively for the Bucks. None of the frosh nave really shown any improvement from the start of the season, though I do believe Muhammed will eventually will be a very good player. Only player that has shown any improvement at times is Kaleb Wesson and that has been spotty.
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  #119  
Old 02-19-19, 08:32 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by Stirred not Shaken View Post
LOL this is Holtmann's team,
You're right. It is Holtmann's team because Matta was fired for failing at recruiting, developing, and on court success for multiple years.

Quote:
once again when Matta was hired he took over a program coming off probation, 2 cons. losing BIG seasons and in his 2nd year won the BIG.
Once again, unless these are the exact same players from 2005-2006, your point is moot. But let's play your game. 86.7% of Ohio State's scoring in 2005-2006 came from juniors or seniors. This year, only 40.4% comes from juniors or seniors. Thad Matta left Ohio State with just two upperclassmen and I'm not sure why you continually choose to ignore that. And without a Kentucky or Duke level freshman class, you can't compete without upperclassmen.

Quote:
Now granted Matta was an exceptional coach and it is hard to expect anyone to match those expectations but this team is not playing very good bball. partly because of very bad fundamentals.
Again, you are right. Matta was an exceptional coach. Unfortunately for Ohio State, he was downright terrible at the end of his time in Columbus and now Ohio State is in it's current situation. If he hadn't absolutely botched the 2015 class (0/5 remaining), 2016 class (2/4 remaining) and 2017 class (had 1 commit until Holtmann took over) then Ohio State might be a little better.

Last edited by Taco MacArthur; 02-19-19 at 08:50 AM..
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  #120  
Old 02-19-19, 09:34 AM
Stirred not Shaken Stirred not Shaken is offline
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TM had one losing season ( in the BIG ) as HC, his last season. When you fire a coach who has been successful it is difficult to find a good replacement, just ask Indiana, or Texas. However when you do pull the trigger, better be willing to keep firing coaches until you get a good one. 3 years is more than enough to give a coach to be successful if after next year if OSU is 500 or worse Smith better be willing to bite the bullet and get someone else.
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