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  #1  
Old 05-16-18, 12:33 PM
claynation claynation is offline
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Horter going for 1600/3200; other postseason distance takeaways

1. I hope he attempts the double at state. Heís undoubtedly good enough to win both.

2. It will be interesting if any of the top 1600m podium contenders choose to scratch the 1600m at state (basically conceding the victory to Horter, because thatís the inevitable result) and choose to run the 800m fresh. Arjun Jha has already made this decision (the only individual event heís entered in for districts is the 800m), and I wonít be surprised if Szalay and Miller from Wadsworth follow suit. Bons could also do this, although I still expect him to run the 1600m and take second. In any case, the 800 appears wide open with 1:50 man Horter electing to forgo it and the defending champion in only okay shape.

3. Itís a shame that Zach Kreft moved down to D2.

4. Conant Smith is such a wild card. Heís entered in the 1600/3200; my guess would be that he chooses to focus on the 3200 again in Columbus. Who knows if heís in shape to run under 9:10, though.

5. A 3200m state battle between a tired Horter and a fresh Scrape/Conant could be juicy.
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  #2  
Old 05-16-18, 12:51 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Horter needs to only concentrate on being the only sub 4 prep runner and he will make history.
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  #3  
Old 05-16-18, 01:07 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Horter needs to only concentrate on being the only sub 4 prep runner and he will make history.
Only in Ohio? Certainly not in the rest of the US.

Horter should do what Horter wants to do. Everyone else can take a hike.
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  #4  
Old 05-16-18, 01:23 PM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Horter should do what Horter wants to do. Everyone else can take a hike.[/QUOTE]


agree!! He is good enough to win both in dramatic fashion!!




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  #5  
Old 05-16-18, 02:06 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claynation View Post

2. It will be interesting if any of the top 1600m podium contenders choose to scratch the 1600m at state (basically conceding the victory to Horter, because thatís the inevitable result) and choose to run the 800m fresh. Arjun Jha has already made this decision (the only individual event heís entered in for districts is the 800m), and I wonít be surprised if Szalay and Miller from Wadsworth follow suit. Bons could also do this, although I still expect him to run the 1600m and take second. In any case, the 800 appears wide open with 1:50 man Horter electing to forgo it and the defending champion in only okay shape.
Cousino needs to be in the 800 discussion on a windy night Friday he ran a 1:52.35 shortly after running a 4:15.82 1600. His only individual event at districts is the 800.
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Old 05-16-18, 04:26 PM
Newton's Third Newton's Third is online now
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Many previous star runners have entered and ran both the 1600 and 3200 through the regional as a precaution against a fall, false start, or any other mishap. If their 1600 went to plan and the the weather hot as usual they drop the 3200 at state. This may be Horter's approach.
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  #7  
Old 05-16-18, 06:09 PM
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Lancermania Lancermania is offline
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Horter has stated he wants to win two events at state. Very few have been able to do both. What is the count up to now?
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Old 05-16-18, 09:28 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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For D1 Boys Distance Only

Danny Neff from Vandalia Butler 2008 won both the 1600 and 800
Doug Bockenstette from Cincinnati LaSalle in 1994 won both the 1600 and 3200

Those were the two best double that I have ever witnessed. Both men amongst boys.
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Old 05-16-18, 09:38 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Probably the best I witnessed was Scott Fry in 1985, winning the 1600 and 3200.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-18, 10:09 PM
madman madman is offline
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The easiest double I ever witnessed was Jeff See in 2005 in the 1600 and 800. A man among boys.
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Old 05-16-18, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
Horter needs to only concentrate on being the only sub 4 prep runner and he will make history.
US high school boys sub 4:00 mile all-time list:
3:53.43 Alan Webb (2001)
3:55.3h Jim Ryun (1965)
3:57.81 Drew Hunter (2016)
3:59.30 Reed Brown (2017)
3:59.38 Matthew Maton (2015)
3:59.38 Grant Fisher (2015)
3:59.4h Tim Danielson (1966)
3:59.53 Michael Slagowski (2016)
3:59.71 Lukas Verzbicas (2011)
3:59.8h Marty Liquori (1967)
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  #12  
Old 05-17-18, 01:28 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Most impressive double of the last 50 years, not only setting new meet records, but whacking the all-time state records by huge margins - Reggie McAfee of Cincinnati Courter Technical (located on what is now Cincinnati State). McAfee won the '69 Mile/880 double with his 4:08.5/1:52.5 records. The previous meet records had been 4:17.9 and 1:54.4, respectively. The previous state records had been 4:13.3 (by McAfee at the Earl Redmond Sr. meet (Sycamore JHS (then HS), Cincinnati) on 5/12/69) and 1:53.8 by Greg Hale (Rocky River) set in 1968. McAfee split 2:02/2:06 in his record mile and towed at least 2 other guys under the old meet record. St. Xavier's Denis Lunne was one of them with his 4:17.5 PR in 3rd place. McAfee had placed 3rd & 2nd, respectively, in the state 2-mile in 1967 & 1968 versions of that event.

In 1969, McAfee stood ALONE and SUPREME.
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Old 05-17-18, 07:36 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
US high school boys sub 4:00 mile all-time list:
3:53.43 Alan Webb (2001)
3:55.3h Jim Ryun (1965)
3:57.81 Drew Hunter (2016)
3:59.30 Reed Brown (2017)
3:59.38 Matthew Maton (2015)
3:59.38 Grant Fisher (2015)
3:59.4h Tim Danielson (1966)
3:59.53 Michael Slagowski (2016)
3:59.71 Lukas Verzbicas (2011)
3:59.8h Marty Liquori (1967)
As great as Horter is if I was a betting man I don't think he adds his name to that list. Now next indoor season I think he has a good shot to break 4.
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  #14  
Old 05-17-18, 07:59 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
As great as Horter is if I was a betting man I don't think he adds his name to that list. Now next indoor season I think he has a good shot to break 4.
I still think he has a shot this year, but running with pros where he gets some help thru the first 3 laps where he can run more relaxed and let them do the work.
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Old 05-17-18, 08:14 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claynation View Post
I won’t be surprised if Szalay and Miller from Wadsworth follow suit.
Szalay and Miller are, at least of now, running a 800/1600 double. At last night's Brunswick District both moved on to tomorrow's 800 & 1600 finals and both were a part of Wadsworth's victorious 4x8 team. They won in 7:47.05.

I'm wondering if it reasonable to believe that Wadsworth might challenge St. X's D1 4x8 record of 7:36.33? At the Akron Suburban League Championships last week Wadsworth went 7:42.99. I know 6+ seconds is a lot to drop but given the right conditions it would seem to be doable unless that 7:42.99 effort was already at their limit.

There does seem to be a dearth of really strong 4x8 teams this season. That is odd for Ohio as there are usually multiple strong 4x8 teams. The 2nd best 4x8 team in the state this season, Hudson, will not be moving on as they were dq'd in the Nordonia District last night. Not having a team to really push Wadsworth could derail any chance that they have at breaking St. X's record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton's Third View Post
Many previous star runners have entered and ran both the 1600 and 3200 through the regional as a precaution against a fall, false start, or any other mishap. If their 1600 went to plan and the the weather hot as usual they drop the 3200 at state. This may be Horter's approach.
That is what Horter did last season. He was in the 1600 & 3200 and scratched the 3200. If it is hot, I would expect the same this year.

I was actually a little surprised that Horter didn't run the 800 & 1600 in the district meet. If there was more time between the events at the state meet I could see him attempting that double rather than the 1600/3200. I believe his best future in the short-term, this upcoming summer, and the indoor and outdoor seasons during his freshman and sophomore seasons at IU, is as an 800 & 1500 runner - just my opinion, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
As great as Horter is if I was a betting man I don't think he adds his name to that list. Now next indoor season I think he has a good shot to break 4.
I agree. We're not going to see a sub-4 effort this HS season. I wouldn't be overly surprised, though, to see close to a sub-4 effort or a sub-4 this summer under ideal conditions and in a field with professionals, high-level collegiate runners, or high school runners that are probably better than he is or that have run faster than he has - i.e., Brodey Hasty went 4:00.5 indoors this past year. I don't know how much Hasty has competed this past track season, though, given all of the political goings on in Brentwood and in light of competing independently last XC season. I don't know if he did that this track season also or if he ran for the high school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
Cousino needs to be in the 800 discussion on a windy night Friday he ran a 1:52.35 shortly after running a 4:15.82 1600. His only individual event at districts is the 800.
Cousino definitely will be a contender in the 800. I also expect that McGill may round into better form. Keep in mind that McGill plays football and most of the guys he has been competing against have more of a base carryover from XC. He'll get stronger as the post-season progresses. Since Jha is only running the 800, he'll need to be in the discussion as well. As an aside, last year's 4x8 champs, TWHS, did not move on to regional.

Last edited by Rohbino; 05-17-18 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 05-17-18, 08:15 AM
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I'm going by memory now because I can't find the list, but as I recall only four of those ten guys broke 4:00 in high school only races. Here is an example. Southlake Carroll (TX) High then senior Reed Brown ran 3:59.30 at the Festival of Miles to become the fourth fastest prep miler ever. This was the second high school sub-four time produced by the meet after Grant Fisher ran 3:59.38 in 2015. Brown competed in the professional mile field, which was won by University of Wisconsin standout Morgan McDonald. This is what JAVMAN83 was referring to give Horter his best shot at breaking 4:00 by running with professionals

Last edited by Lancermania; 05-17-18 at 08:27 AM..
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Old 05-17-18, 09:06 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Olentangy Orange at least should be able to give Wadsworth some competition in the 4x800. They beat Wadsworth at the indoor state meet, where they set the indoor state meet record and I think had the second fastest ever time for an Ohio indoor team.

As for Horter, I have coached against him many times, and would never discount him as a competitor. I think if the weather is hot the double will be hard to pull off. He won't be able to just slow down the pace in the 1600 and dictate the pace. On the other hand, the 3200 probably has fewer kids close to his level than the 800 does.
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Old 05-17-18, 09:43 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancermania View Post
I'm going by memory now because I can't find the list, but as I recall only four of those ten guys broke 4:00 in high school only races. Here is an example. Southlake Carroll (TX) High then senior Reed Brown ran 3:59.30 at the Festival of Miles to become the fourth fastest prep miler ever. This was the second high school sub-four time produced by the meet after Grant Fisher ran 3:59.38 in 2015. Brown competed in the professional mile field, which was won by University of Wisconsin standout Morgan McDonald. This is what JAVMAN83 was referring to give Horter his best shot at breaking 4:00 by running with professionals
Michael Slagowski (Rocky Mountain HS, Meridian, ID) appears to be the only other HS athlete to go sub-4 in a HS-only race with his 3:59.53 at the Jesuit Twilight Relays (Portland, OR) on April 29, 2016.
Video:
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  #19  
Old 05-17-18, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Michael Slagowski (Rocky Mountain HS, Meridian, ID) appears to be the only other HS athlete to go sub-4 in a HS-only race with his 3:59.53 at the Jesuit Twilight Relays (Portland, OR) on April 29, 2016.
Video:
Just off memory, Jim Ryan ran something like 3:58 at the Kansas state high school meet. It was somewhere on a link off the ATFS web page where I saw the list of four, but I can't find that list now.
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Old 05-17-18, 10:16 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is online now
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Jim Ryun - 3:58.3 at the '65 Kansas State meet:

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  #21  
Old 05-17-18, 06:49 PM
claynation claynation is offline
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Yes, Cousino is a contender in the 800 but I think Iíd favor Jha right now. I do expect at least one of, if not both, Miller and Szalay to scratch the 1600 in favor I of the 800.

Can anyone describe what happened to the Hudson 4x800?
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Old 05-19-18, 03:12 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by claynation View Post
Yes, Cousino is a contender in the 800 but I think Iíd favor Jha right now. I do expect at least one of, if not both, Miller and Szalay to scratch the 1600 in favor I of the 800.

Can anyone describe what happened to the Hudson 4x800?
Jha didn't have a good day today running a 1:55.83 to finish 2nd to Bons 1:53.91 and this was after Bons won the mile in 4:23.25.

Cousino broke the district record winning by almost 9 sec running a 1:51.76.

Malachi McGill was 3rd with a 1:55.10. Not sure he can close that big of gap on Cousino in two weeks.
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Old 05-19-18, 03:48 PM
ToledoXC ToledoXC is offline
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Originally Posted by claynation View Post
Yes, Cousino is a contender in the 800 but I think Iíd favor Jha right now. I do expect at least one of, if not both, Miller and Szalay to scratch the 1600 in favor I of the 800.

Can anyone describe what happened to the Hudson 4x800?
Cousino will run 1:49 low in the next couple weeks. He went out in 53, came back back in 58 today. No competition.
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Old 05-19-18, 09:08 PM
claynation claynation is offline
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Looks like I spoke too soon re: Jha being the favorite in the 800m. I guess it really is Cousino right now, although if Bons were to scratch the 1600m at state...watch out.
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Old 05-20-18, 12:54 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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I wouldnít write Jha off just yet. He is finally able to run after being out all season for injury. Last week at the OCC meet was his first chance to run. He might not be able to get back into the 1:50-1:52 shape he was in last year, but I already saw differences in his mechanics last week to this week. I have coached against him enough to not discount him.

Bons is not going to scratch the 1600. I do think he could run in the 1:50-1:51 range, but that could easily not be enough to win.

Cousino has got to be considered the favorite right now, but there are a bunch of strong contenders. It could be a really fast race, maybe like the 1600 was last year.
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Old 05-26-18, 06:22 AM
claynation claynation is offline
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As predicted, we've continued to have some big scratches in the boys 1600m with Ashwin Briggs and Nick Miller being the latest. These dudes want no part of Horter, and understandably so. The boys 800m may be the most intriguing event of the entire D1 state meet.
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