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  #1  
Old 09-29-18, 10:27 AM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Meet of Champions at Hilliard Bradley.

What a joke!! High school boys race leader finished at 13:29. Gator had no clue where they were going and completely missed a loop. Schools need to be refunded there entry fee. Every boy in Ohio went sub-15 lol


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Last edited by wolsey737; 09-29-18 at 12:07 PM..
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  #2  
Old 09-29-18, 12:07 PM
XCFan98 XCFan98 is offline
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Results

Results link please?
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  #3  
Old 09-29-18, 12:12 PM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Originally Posted by XCFan98 View Post
Results link please?

https://results.timingfirst.com/meet...c-events/52421



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  #4  
Old 09-29-18, 02:39 PM
OhioXC17 OhioXC17 is offline
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Angry

Thatís just embarrassing. Arguably the biggest meet in the state this week and they couldnít find someone competent enough to know the course and drive the gator. Wouldíve been better off having it at the short course again.
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  #5  
Old 09-29-18, 04:49 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH UUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH. Learn the freakin' course and don't rely on a lead vehicle. Just another thing that makes me pull my hair out. How hard is it to run fast when you only have to concentrate on running and knowing the course is not even a requirement. The dumbing down of a sport when most of the kids participating in it are top 10% of their class.

One person. All it takes is one person to run the course correctly or one team and they win. Protest all you want, but you should know the course, but we don't make the kids think. Sad.

Same thing happened at Woodridge JV / open girls race. Someone moves a cone where the lead vehicle couldn't be and they ran an extra mile. Talk about times being slow. I think 27 min won. Maybe worse. 90% of the kids didn't even realize they ran a mile further. Clueless. Funny though, sort of.
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  #6  
Old 09-29-18, 05:47 PM
Seppo Kaitainen Seppo Kaitainen is offline
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We won't be back next year. Not that it will impact their bottom line with an overcrowded field and charging $5 per head, but it was a lot of stuff I don't like in cross country. The lead vehicle going the wrong way was just the cherry on top.

There were around 260 kids in that race and the course really isn't big enough to handle that. Do you really think that no coaches walked the course with their athletes or went over it several times before the race? Maybe it's not as easy as "learning the course" to go against the flow of everyone else when you're in the middle of a race.

It was relatively dry this week and the course was a mud pit by the end. Most of the course is really low and just doesn't seem like it could drain well. The course just a bunch of loops in a field.

One of the top runners in that boys' race was knocked unconscious when he collided with a runner going the opposite way due to overlaps in the course. I'm not sure how his coach managed to keep his cool. Hope that young man is ok.
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  #7  
Old 09-29-18, 06:00 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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Yeah there were a number of collisions. From what we were told somehow the leaders got in front of the gator in the woods. Not sure how that happens. In any event it looked like the top few turned the wrong way and the gator opted to follow (and get in front of) them, pulling the whole field in the wrong direction. Once that happened it was gonna be a mess. Honestly, how many kids in a high school race will be confident enough of the course to run in a different direction than the leaders and the gator? In the pre-gator area I ran a HS meet where our lead runner and I knew we were supposed to go straight, but the course Marshall (parent) said turn here. We went straight, the rest of the field turned, and the starter came running over telling us to turn around and go ďthe same way as everyone else.Ē Two weeks later a dual meet I had learned my lesson, and when a coach said ďUp the hillĒ I lead my teammate the wrong way, up the hill, because I didnít want to lose again.

All of the races were congested. In the girls race my lead runner got knocked over at a turn by a runner jumping to the outside of the turn to avoid the congestion, and into my runner who was trying to take an outside line through the turn. There were several falls/half falls in the opening straight.
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  #8  
Old 09-29-18, 06:06 PM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathking View Post
Yeah there were a number of collisions. From what we were told somehow the leaders got in front of the gator in the woods. Not sure how that happens. In any event it looked like the top few turned the wrong way and the gator opted to follow (and get in front of) them, pulling the whole field in the wrong direction. Once that happened it was gonna be a mess. Honestly, how many kids in a high school race will be confident enough of the course to run in a different direction than the leaders and the gator? In the pre-gator area I ran a HS meet where our lead runner and I knew we were supposed to go straight, but the course Marshall (parent) said turn here. We went straight, the rest of the field turned, and the starter came running over telling us to turn around and go ďthe same way as everyone else.Ē Two weeks later a dual meet I had learned my lesson, and when a coach said ďUp the hillĒ I lead my teammate the wrong way, up the hill, because I didnít want to lose again.

All of the races were congested. In the girls race my lead runner got knocked over at a turn by a runner jumping to the outside of the turn to avoid the congestion, and into my runner who was trying to take an outside line through the turn. There were several falls/half falls in the opening straight.


From what we heard the gator kept stopping or slowing down and the lead runners had to pass it a few times. What are they supposed to do? Stop and wait for the gator to speed back up? One error after another.


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  #9  
Old 09-29-18, 06:10 PM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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Shouldn't every runner be DQ for not running the designed course? If I remember correctly that it is a rule if you cut the course short you get DQ'd.
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  #10  
Old 09-29-18, 06:13 PM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Originally Posted by CC Track Fan View Post
Shouldn't every runner be DQ for not running the designed course? If I remember correctly that it is a rule if you cut the course short you get DQ'd.


Thatís what shouldíve happened. But they gave out all the awards as if it was an official race.


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  #11  
Old 09-29-18, 06:35 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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I donít fault the lead runners for passing the gator. Itís the gator drivers responsibility to stay in front of them.

As for DQing everyone, that wasnít going to happen. And I suppose the head ref could rule no one gained an advantage if everyone ran the same course. As psychodad said, if one person or one team ran the correct course by rule they would have had to DQ everyone else.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-18, 03:40 PM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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The official results have it listed as a 4200 meter race.

I highly doubt that the lead runners would have not followed the gator even if they knew that the wrong course was being taken. While the onus is on the athletes to know the course, the gator driver also needs to know the course. There was probably a parent volunteer or some sort of an official at the bifurcation where the gator erred. That person also should have known. What would have been interesting is if the lead runner followed the gator and second place went on the official path. What would the 3rd runner do?

The Lakota East girls won but I did not see their #1 in the results. I asked someone familiar with the team and was told she's done for the season.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-18, 10:32 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathking View Post
YHonestly, how many kids in a high school race will be confident enough of the course to run in a different direction than the leaders and the gator?
Josh Park of Amherst/Ohio U (who overcame many injuries to win All-Ohio yesterday) at age 13 was running the Skeleton Run (local 5k) and was near the front when some leaders started the wrong way around a loop ... Josh was bold enough at age 13 to call out that they were going the wrong way. (It was a loop and would have been the same distance either way). I was always impressed with his maturity.
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  #14  
Old 10-01-18, 05:03 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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That does take a lot of maturity.
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  #15  
Old 10-01-18, 07:31 PM
COFan COFan is offline
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From the Enquirer:

Saturday in Hilliard the boys varsity race at the Midwest Meet of Champions was held on the short course. So, instead of a full 3.1 miles the participants ran sub-three mile races. The change in distance did not seem to bother Elder as the Panthers placed third.

St. Ignatius was the meet champion with 113 points while Pickerington North was the runner-up at 203.
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  #16  
Old 10-01-18, 08:28 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COFan View Post
Saturday in Hilliard the boys varsity race at the Midwest Meet of Champions was held on the short course. So, instead of a full 3.1 miles the participants ran sub-three mile races. The change in distance did not seem to bother Elder as the Panthers placed third.

St. Ignatius was the meet champion with 113 points while Pickerington North was the runner-up at 203.
As a coach, I would be a little mad after the results. But as a spectator and purist of the sport, I would be happy with the correct distance labeling the race. Many historic courses are not the correct distance throughout the country.
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  #17  
Old 10-03-18, 01:53 PM
Seppo Kaitainen Seppo Kaitainen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COFan View Post
Saturday in Hilliard the boys varsity race at the Midwest Meet of Champions was held on the short course. So, instead of a full 3.1 miles the participants ran sub-three mile races. The change in distance did not seem to bother Elder as the Panthers placed third.

St. Ignatius was the meet champion with 113 points while Pickerington North was the runner-up at 203.
Hahaha, the good old short course! Kids today are soft. Why back in my day we didn't have units of measurement. We just ran until we caught the antelope or died. And we liked it that way
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  #18  
Old 10-03-18, 10:19 PM
Qualifer17 Qualifer17 is offline
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Today at the Darby Dash, I got a chance to ask the founder of the race about it. He didnít have full responsibility this year because it was held at Bradley and he is affiliated with Darby, but hereís what ended up happening.

When the gator went into the woods, it got stuck in the mud and the lead runners continued on. Weíll Johnston and Smith mustíve just not known where they were going and took a wrong turn, leading the entire field with em.

Apparently, the gator, once out of the mud, tried to go and catch them and redirect them but by then it was too late and over the walker talkies, they decided to make it just under 4200m. Still a prestigious meet. One mistake. One costly one. But still a great one.
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  #19  
Old 10-04-18, 07:03 AM
5x26 5x26 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
The Lakota East girls won but I did not see their #1 in the results. I asked someone familiar with the team and was told she's done for the season.
I hope it's nothing too major.
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  #20  
Old 10-04-18, 07:38 AM
mathking mathking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualifer17 View Post
Today at the Darby Dash, I got a chance to ask the founder of the race about it. He didnít have full responsibility this year because it was held at Bradley and he is affiliated with Darby, but hereís what ended up happening.

When the gator went into the woods, it got stuck in the mud and the lead runners continued on. Weíll Johnston and Smith mustíve just not known where they were going and took a wrong turn, leading the entire field with em.

Apparently, the gator, once out of the mud, tried to go and catch them and redirect them but by then it was too late and over the walker talkies, they decided to make it just under 4200m. Still a prestigious meet. One mistake. One costly one. But still a great one.
That makes me feel a little, but only a little, better about the meet. My bigger problem was that there were too many teams for the course. It was simply not safe.
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  #21  
Old 10-04-18, 07:55 AM
SteveMiles SteveMiles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualifer17 View Post
Today at the Darby Dash, I got a chance to ask the founder of the race about it. He didnít have full responsibility this year because it was held at Bradley and he is affiliated with Darby, but hereís what ended up happening.

When the gator went into the woods, it got stuck in the mud and the lead runners continued on. Weíll Johnston and Smith mustíve just not known where they were going and took a wrong turn, leading the entire field with em.

Apparently, the gator, once out of the mud, tried to go and catch them and redirect them but by then it was too late and over the walker talkies, they decided to make it just under 4200m. Still a prestigious meet. One mistake. One costly one. But still a great one.
I was at the meet and the gator did come out of the woods behind the lead pack, swerving to get around them- almost hitting a few runners, before getting back in front of the leaders before the mile mark. The lead cart definitely was in the lead when the wrong turn happened. The entire field followed and many of the kids were running with their arms in the air as if to say where the heck are we going! The person who knew the course well was on the cart for the 9th/10th grade races but allowed the person they were riding with to do it alone for the boys race of champions. Needless to say, there was a switch of drivers after the Boys ROC.
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  #22  
Old 10-04-18, 10:22 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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There are two versions of what happened:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualifer17 View Post
Johnston and Smith must’ve just not known where they were going and took a wrong turn, leading the entire field with em.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMiles View Post
The lead cart definitely was in the lead when the wrong turn happened.
It would be nice to know what really happened.

Last edited by Rohbino; 10-05-18 at 08:42 AM..
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  #23  
Old 10-04-18, 10:33 AM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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[QUOTE=Rohbino;7133410]There are two versions of what happened:



It seems that itís easier to blame the 17 year olds then it is for the adults in charge to take responsibility. One thing for sure that we all can agree on it was a cluster %#@&$!!


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Old 10-04-18, 11:01 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Does anyone know what the accurate distance of the race was? Meet officials are calling it 4200 meters. How do they know it was 4200? Was it measured or is it a guesstimate? The time that Johnston and Smith ran, for ease of simplicity we'll just say it was 13:30, extrapolates to about 16:04 for a full 5000. Smith ran 15:08 at Centerville just a few weeks prior to MMOC. Was the Bradley course really that much slower? It's inconsequential but methinks that the race was longer than 4200 meters.
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  #25  
Old 10-04-18, 11:03 AM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolsey737 View Post
It seems that itís easier to blame the 17 year olds then it is for the adults in charge to take responsibility. One thing for sure that we all can agree on it was a cluster %#@&$!!
I'll blame both parties.

There's absolutely no excuse for the lead vehicle operator to not know the course. Conversely, if a runner is interested in leading a race, let alone winning it, it's rather important for that runner to know the course.

If I'm making a course, I'll mark it as clearly as I possibly can, but that does not relieve a competitor of the duty of knowing where he or she is going.
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  #26  
Old 10-04-18, 11:11 AM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
Does anyone know what the accurate distance of the race was? Meet officials are calling it 4200 meters. How do they know it was 4200? Was it measured or is it a guesstimate? The time that Johnston and Smith ran, for ease of simplicity we'll just say it was 13:30, extrapolates to about 16:04 for a full 5000. Smith ran 15:08 at Centerville just a few weeks prior to MMOC. Was the Bradley course really that much slower? It's inconsequential but methinks that the race was longer than 4200 meters.


I thought I heard that an email went out to all the coaches and they said that it was around 4600 for that race.


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Old 10-04-18, 11:37 AM
galesxc galesxc is online now
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Coaches,


I would first like to apologize sincerely for the course error that occurred during the Boys ROC. Please convey my apologies to your athletes who were in the race. I feel terrible that they didn't get the same opportunities/experience as their teammates in the other races. We wheeled the portion of the course the boys ran and the distance ended up 670 meters short. I wanted to relay that to you in case you needed a reference point. We've also communicated the race distance to Mile Split.


Thank you for attending the meet. We are always happy to host your schools. I want to wish you all the best of luck heading into the post-season.


Thanks,


Ben Gadfield
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  #28  
Old 10-04-18, 11:37 AM
Rohbino Rohbino is offline
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Originally Posted by wolsey737 View Post
I thought I heard that an email went out to all the coaches and they said that it was around 4600 for that race.


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4600 makes more sense. Timingfirst has it as 4200 on their website:

https://results.timingfirst.com/meets/1528

**I was posting at the same time as galesxc was. The discrepancy should probably also be conveyed to Timingfirst so they can list that in the results.

So, based on the "official" short distance of 4330 meters, the leaders ran around a 15:35 pace for a full 5000.
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Old 10-04-18, 11:39 AM
wolsey737 wolsey737 is offline
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Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
4600 makes more sense. Timingfirst has it as 4200 on their website:



https://results.timingfirst.com/meets/1528


Looks like per the letter it was 4330


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