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  #1261  
Old 04-12-18, 01:13 PM
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Looks like Landry is going to get paid: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...eveland-browns
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  #1262  
Old 04-12-18, 04:39 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Dorsey does not hesitate to spend his owner's cash. That was part of the criticism of him in KC. This deal essentially pays him his franchise number over 5 years, and if he continues to perform will be very reasonable in a couple of years.
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  #1263  
Old 04-12-18, 04:42 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom 48 View Post
Who would Sashi take? Or would he trade down? He'd most likely trade the 4th pick. Analytics might suggest Allen.
Sashi would put them in a great position (for next year's draft). Eventually, the Browns would have had every first round pick in the 2036 NFL draft.
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  #1264  
Old 04-13-18, 04:33 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Looks like Landry is going to get paid: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...eveland-browns
from your link -

Quote:
.........Without a new contract, Landry would play the 2018 season on the franchise tag, which the Dolphins used on him before the trade. That would have paid him $16 million this season.
...........

A three-time Pro Bowl selection, Landry is a sure-handed receiver who led the league in catches in 2017 with 112; all Browns receivers had 134, led by Higgins and Ricardo Louis with 27 each. ESPN Stats & Information reports that the Browns have never had a 100-catch receiver.

Landry missed 1,000 yards by 13, but had 1,136 and 1,157 yards the previous two seasons.

Only Antonio Brown (471) and Julio Jones (411) have more receptions than Landry's 400 since he debuted in the NFL in 2014. Last season, Browns receivers caught 57 percent of the passes thrown to them; Landry has caught 71 percent in his career.
I like it if the guaranteed money is heavy on the front end.

His work ethic might go a long way with Gordon and Coleman, too. If not, cut ties with Coleman and draft WR next year.
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  #1265  
Old 04-13-18, 04:35 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
Dorsey does not hesitate to spend his owner's cash. That was part of the criticism of him in KC. This deal essentially pays him his franchise number over 5 years, and if he continues to perform will be very reasonable in a couple of years.
What do you think Landry should be paid ? What's he worth to you ?
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  #1266  
Old 04-13-18, 06:27 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
What do you think Landry should be paid ? What's he worth to you ?
Probably closer to $10-$12 million a year. But the Browns were always going to have to overpay a bit.
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  #1267  
Old 04-13-18, 08:40 AM
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I heard one of the guys on the NFL channel suggest that the Browns take Quinton Nelson with the #4 pick and move Bitonio to the LT ... at first I dismissed it as stupid .... then I went back and watched Nelson play ... he is a beast, especially run blocking ... so now I am not sure ... I would have to be totally convinced that Bitonio could be an above average LT ... overall, I still think Chubb is the best pick, but I now think Nelson is a reasonable option.
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  #1268  
Old 04-13-18, 09:08 AM
Taco MacArthur Taco MacArthur is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I heard one of the guys on the NFL channel suggest that the Browns take Quinton Nelson with the #4 pick and move Bitonio to the LT ... at first I dismissed it as stupid .... then I went back and watched Nelson play ... he is a beast, especially run blocking ... so now I am not sure ... I would have to be totally convinced that Bitonio could be an above average LT ... overall, I still think Chubb is the best pick, but I now think Nelson is a reasonable option.
IMO Nelson is the best player in the draft regardless of position value.
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  #1269  
Old 04-13-18, 11:23 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by joesports View Post
I heard one of the guys on the NFL channel suggest that the Browns take Quinton Nelson with the #4 pick and move Bitonio to the LT ... at first I dismissed it as stupid .... then I went back and watched Nelson play ... he is a beast, especially run blocking ... so now I am not sure ... I would have to be totally convinced that Bitonio could be an above average LT ... overall, I still think Chubb is the best pick, but I now think Nelson is a reasonable option.
I suggested it in here before that, so that is why you thought it was stupid when you heard it there. Mental block.. You have some sort of oppositional disorder.
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  #1270  
Old 04-13-18, 11:25 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Probably closer to $10-$12 million a year. But the Browns were always going to have to overpay a bit.
Dude, don't bail him out....
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  #1271  
Old 04-13-18, 11:41 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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SMH at this Landry deal. The Browns really do have to suck at everything
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  #1272  
Old 04-13-18, 11:45 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
Probably closer to $10-$12 million a year. But the Browns were always going to have to overpay a bit.
That's a reasonable range. $15M is a little high today, but by the time he gets very far into the deal I think it will be a reasonable number and by the end they'll be getting very good value if he continues to produce as he has.
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  #1273  
Old 04-13-18, 02:06 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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It's an awful deal. Would any high quality franchise in the NFL have done it? No
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  #1274  
Old 04-13-18, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
It's an awful deal. Would any high quality franchise in the NFL have done it? No
Interesting times in the NFL and pro sports labor in general. Players and their Agents are not happy with the current collective bargaining agreements and they will be looking at any type of leverage they can gain prior to the next round of negotiations. Old school NFL holdouts will be coming back into vogue as the higher tier players are not liking the franchise tag aspect of the current deal so this is their leverage tool of choice. So to your question, would any high quality franchise in the NFL have done it? I think that the better answer is it depends on the situation. Watch for a flurry of holdouts over the next few years before the current collective bargaining deal os done in 2021.

On a side note, don't be surprised if the NFL, MLB, and NBA all have work stoppages in the next few years. This past MLB free agent off season and these potential holdouts in the NFL are just the start of what could be challenging times. Like the Tribe in '94 watch the Browns get good just in time for a cancelled season in 2021.
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  #1275  
Old 04-14-18, 04:38 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Interesting times in the NFL and pro sports labor in general. Players and their Agents are not happy with the current collective bargaining agreements and they will be looking at any type of leverage they can gain prior to the next round of negotiations. Old school NFL holdouts will be coming back into vogue as the higher tier players are not liking the franchise tag aspect of the current deal so this is their leverage tool of choice. So to your question, would any high quality franchise in the NFL have done it? I think that the better answer is it depends on the situation. Watch for a flurry of holdouts over the next few years before the current collective bargaining deal os done in 2021.

On a side note, don't be surprised if the NFL, MLB, and NBA all have work stoppages in the next few years. This past MLB free agent off season and these potential holdouts in the NFL are just the start of what could be challenging times. Like the Tribe in '94 watch the Browns get good just in time for a cancelled season in 2021.
Murphy's Law demands it......
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  #1276  
Old 04-14-18, 04:32 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Interesting times in the NFL and pro sports labor in general. Players and their Agents are not happy with the current collective bargaining agreements and they will be looking at any type of leverage they can gain prior to the next round of negotiations. Old school NFL holdouts will be coming back into vogue as the higher tier players are not liking the franchise tag aspect of the current deal so this is their leverage tool of choice. So to your question, would any high quality franchise in the NFL have done it? I think that the better answer is it depends on the situation. Watch for a flurry of holdouts over the next few years before the current collective bargaining deal os done in 2021.

On a side note, don't be surprised if the NFL, MLB, and NBA all have work stoppages in the next few years. This past MLB free agent off season and these potential holdouts in the NFL are just the start of what could be challenging times. Like the Tribe in '94 watch the Browns get good just in time for a cancelled season in 2021.
Lifelong Cleveland fan/victim I see!
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  #1277  
Old 04-14-18, 04:38 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Most sensible mock so far-

https://herosports.com/nfl-draft/nfl...tion-2018-byby
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  #1278  
Old 04-15-18, 06:26 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
It's an awful deal. Would any high quality franchise in the NFL have done it? No
Just wondering, Bloof - did something give you the idea that the Browns would be able to operate like a high quality NFL franchise all of the sudden ?

As an INTENTIONALLY crashed-and-burned rebuilding franchise, not only are the needs different from that of a quality team, they are also capable of doing things a quality team can't. Their cap space is yoooooge. They won't really have to pay all these young kids for another 2-3 years when Landry's guaranteed money is winding down. His value will be revisited then, for sure. Landry fills two massive needs, one quantifiable by stats - stats compiled with Tannehill and Cutler, btw - and one completely intangible. Were you just planning on going to the FA WR section at Target and choosing the cheapest high-production/high-character 25 yr old WR from among 4 or 5 choices ? C'mon. He was lucky to find the right guy at a critical spot, so he paid the price.

This has to be a huge step up from recent years at the WR position. We can add Duane Bowe's and Kenny Britt's stats/contract$ all together after Landry's next 2 seasons, and he'll likely be more than double the value in catches/$, TDs/$, yards/$..... The brightest light we have had at WR for years, Gordon, has struggled to be a pro. Landry's example and steady source of practice field competition will be invaluable. I don't know if you caught the interview excerpt weeks back in which Gordon talked about himself as a vet WR that will have to lead, but I did. I'm very pleased that he has a capable partner in leadership now with Landry.

Sashi looked at stats and money and had 0 feel for intangibles. All the moves he made reflected that. When we reap the benefits in the draft picks and cap room for FAs, it can't be forgotten that we might have to pay a premium if we want to rebuild a culture. Don't get lost in numbers alone like Sashi did.

Dorsey is coming in and cleaning up Sashi's mess. Sashi planned to climb back out of that massive hole that he dug with stats, probability, and luck. Dorsey will use those as well, to a lesser degree, but he's also leaning on experience at judging football talent, football character, and football personality - and how they mesh together with 53. Give it a chance. Trust the complete process.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 04-15-18 at 06:43 AM.. Reason: Dorsey.....
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  #1279  
Old 04-15-18, 09:46 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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If I were to go conspiracy theorist on the Browns draft, I would take notice that the organization (Dorsey, Hue, others) freely gushes about Darnold, Allen and Mayfield when their names are presented by the media...but they seem to avoid much chatter regarding Rosen. Could he be the real target at #1?
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  #1280  
Old 04-15-18, 10:34 AM
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If I were to go conspiracy theorist on the Browns draft, I would take notice that the organization (Dorsey, Hue, others) freely gushes about Darnold, Allen and Mayfield when their names are presented by the media...but they seem to avoid much chatter regarding Rosen. Could he be the real target at #1?
Certainly possible. Josh Rosen is the best QB prospect if concussion history and other injuries are not in question.

Cleveland has an awesome and well-established Jewish tradition if he cares, in a town full of medical brats like himself. Downtown is no comparison to a large cosmopolitan city like NYC, but it's pretty exciting on a small scale now. I'd think he could be very happy here.

The "blue-collar fans" narrative is stuff trafficked in by ignoramuses. Mora made a fool of himself on several levels. The only difference between the crowds at Browns', Jets', or Giants' games is the colors. The NYC media is going to have higher expectations sooner. Most all the non-football narrative around Rosen is a pile of crap that for some odd reason dummies tend to eat up, and others pretend to eat up.

Beau Bishop wondered aloud on the radio Friday if there was a bit of anti-Semitic tilt to the on-going Rosen narrative. It was an interesting conversation.
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  #1281  
Old 04-15-18, 10:59 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
If I were to go conspiracy theorist on the Browns draft, I would take notice that the organization (Dorsey, Hue, others) freely gushes about Darnold, Allen and Mayfield when their names are presented by the media...but they seem to avoid much chatter regarding Rosen. Could he be the real target at #1?
Along the lines of "real target", Chubb is not among the Browns' 30 scheduled visitor prospects. Unlike Denzel Ward, he can't come in as a local player for the home town visits.

Does that mean Chubb's video and Combine workout was so compelling that no further look is needed, that they think he's gone by 4, that they don't want him, or none of the above ?

I'm coming back to Minkah at 4 a bit. Saban's assertion that he can be an outside corner alongside of his Combine workouts make his <20 snaps there this year OK for me. Saban's praise of his work ethic and a quest for knowledge in film study that Saban compares to his own are not things Nick Saban ever really says about anyone. He looks almost happy when he talks about Minkah Fitzpatrick, as strange as that sounds. The thought of a guy that can literally be a shut-down in press coverage, blitz like a demon, run blitz, or roam around like Ed Reed is pretty tantalizing. If true, he is going to enhance a pass rush for years.
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  #1282  
Old 04-15-18, 01:50 PM
Neopolitan Neopolitan is online now
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Fitzpatrick at #4 would be a pretty big reach. There's no consensus he's even one of the 2 best DB's in the draft. Could probably trade down and still get him if they were than enamored with him.
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  #1283  
Old 04-15-18, 03:42 PM
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The lynch pin is still the Giants at 2. Many think they're looking other than QB, which takes a player off of the Browns' board at 4. On the other hand, if they go non-QB it makes the Browns' pick at 4 potentially more valuable in a trade as it leaves another QB a team might want to move up to take.

I don't think Fitzpatrick is a huge reach at 4. He certainly would appear to be a safe pick and one that could step in quickly and contribute. I see him going somewhere in the 6 to 10 range and I hope for Chubb or Barkley at 4, but I wouldn't be disappointed with Fitzpatrick.
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  #1284  
Old 04-15-18, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
SMH at this Landry deal. The Browns really do have to suck at everything
He is one of the most productive WRs in the game. He's only 25. The Browns have a ridiculous amount of cap space. They are coming off 1 win in 2 years and the history for the 20 years prior wasn't much better. They have to pay a premium for anyone they bring in.

I think some fans just like to whine.
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  #1285  
Old 04-16-18, 03:24 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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...and they were able to save by paying Josh Gordon a mere $790,000 in large part based upon his own idiocy.
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  #1286  
Old 04-16-18, 05:21 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Peter King's thoughts today from MMQB-

CLEVELAND, PICKING FIRST
GM John Dorsey has to have made a decision by now, and my gut feeling is it’s going to come down to a quarterback, Wyoming’s Josh Allen or USC’s Sam Darnold, with this pick. For the first three months of the college season, Dorsey scouted all players, knowing there was a good chance he’d be a GM in 2018. For the last four months, since being named the Cleveland GM, he’s known he had to know everything about every quarterback because he was likely to pick one with the first overall pick. If he’d seen six Baker Mayfield games before taking the Cleveland job, don’t you think he’s seen every game of the top five quarterbacks, and at least privately has decided who he favors by now? Dorsey is one of the most thorough personnel people I’ve met in the business. I’m not saying he has written a name on the card Goodell will read yet, because I’m sure Dorsey wants to hear out smart offensive minds who may differ—namely coach Hue Jackson and offensive coordinator Todd Haley. I’m just saying I’d be surprised if deep down Dorsey didn’t know who he is picking.

So put me down for Allen or Darnold here, at least as of this morning.​

CLEVELAND, PICKING FOURTH (OR TRADING)
I think they’d trade only for a ransom, like three ones from Buffalo (at 12) or Miami (at 11), and that’s unlikely. Dorsey went to the Gettleman school. Don't trade a guy you project to be an annual All-Pro player (Chubb, Barkley or even Notre Dame guard Quenton Nelson) when you’re trying to build a great team. The one X-factor here: If Darnold survives the first three picks, one of those mega-trades might pop up. I wouldn’t do it if I were Dorsey, and I had the chance to get a player like Chubb here.
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  #1287  
Old 04-16-18, 06:07 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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CBS Sports:

Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming. As Will Brinson pointed out just a few days ago, citing analysis from Pete Prisco and other veteran NFL writers, all signs point to the Browns taking Allen No. 1 overall. As we close in on the draft, it appears John Dorsey wants another big-armed quarterback to sit behind a veteran for -- maybe -- a season like he had last year in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes.
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  #1288  
Old 04-16-18, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold View Post
...and they were able to save by paying Josh Gordon a mere $790,000 in large part based upon his own idiocy.
An unwitting partner in the great tank-a-palooza.


The Browns will have a much closer look at him and how he lives his life than the rest of the NFL will. To eschew the risk of being in a bidding war at season's end for his UFA services 2019 and beyond, do you offer a 3 yr contract with a club option 4th if he's still squared away week 10 ? I think if they wait too long, like the off-season, they'll get be really sorry that they did.
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  #1289  
Old 04-16-18, 09:46 PM
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CBS Sports:

Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming. As Will Brinson pointed out just a few days ago, citing analysis from Pete Prisco and other veteran NFL writers, all signs point to the Browns taking Allen No. 1 overall. As we close in on the draft, it appears John Dorsey wants another big-armed quarterback to sit behind a veteran for -- maybe -- a season like he had last year in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes.
So, what are these signs ? It's meaningless jabber from Brinson without credible citation. I've heard none from any corner.

Allen shows no sign of being like Mahomes, who at TexTech saw a comp % from his 7 games as a freshman yearly go 56.8%, to 63.5%, up to 65.7% his junior year.

This guy and I are in near total agreement on Josh Allen - shouldn't even go in the first round. It's worth the 12 minute listen. https://923thefan.radio.com/articles...en-first-round

Here's his (Hub Arkush) latest mock if you're curious where he stands overall. http://www.profootballweekly.com/lis...dex.xml?page=1
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  #1290  
Old 04-17-18, 04:46 AM
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That’d be great if the Browns pick Allen #1.
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