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  #31  
Old 08-16-18, 08:09 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
I’m surprised they haven’t played any of the Detroit Catholic schools like Catholic Central, Brother Rice, UD Jesuit, and De LaSalle. I know LS has played Brother Rice in the past.
A team from TN also makes sense. Surprised it hasn't happened. Be great to schedule a Knoxville or Nashville team. I'm sure quite a few fans would turn it into a fun road trip.

Usually a couple good programs from TN in USA Today rankings. Im drawing a blank on the name but I know X played ?Montgomery Bell? a couple years ago.
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  #32  
Old 08-16-18, 08:40 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
A team from TN also makes sense. Surprised it hasn't happened. Be great to schedule a Knoxville or Nashville team. I'm sure quite a few fans would turn it into a fun road trip.

Usually a couple good programs from TN in USA Today rankings. Im drawing a blank on the name but I know X played ?Montgomery Bell? a couple years ago.
Screw the stupid road trip, it’s about winning games. MBA would be a steep challenge, but better than any of the Football Factories. And I think X played Brentwood Academy, which is the other TN power.
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  #33  
Old 08-16-18, 09:02 AM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
The waters can get muddy. Yes 40% of the GMC made it last year, 60% did not. Again muddy waters 50% of the GCL-S (GCL) made the D1 playoffs and LaSalle made D2 so 75% of the GCL made it. We really aren't comparing Apples to Apples when we compare the two leagues. As mentioned above the 18 team region, GWOC being out of Region 4 help the GMC get more teams in.

Out of the 18 teams in Region 4 you can look at it like this.

West Hi
Walnut Hills
Milford
Glen Este/Amelia (West Clermont)
Lebanon

Those schools are HISTORICALLY bad in football. Now West Clermont shocked me last year so they could get off of that list if they keep it up. Milford left the GMC because they were so bad. Again they shocked me and probalby will be off that list.

Then you have 10 teams in the GMC and 3 in the GCL. Even if they win the OOC games the GMC will never get more than 5 teams in the playoffs. So that leaves 8 spots for 10 teams barring any surprises like West Clermont/Milford.


I think the Florida and Obama schools were schedule fillers to get 10 game. Elder is lucky to have The Pit and some teams like to come for the atmosphere and pay check.

The last time I did the math, I think Elder has played teams from 13 states. Most of those have been against good competition.
I agree V&R that the regional setup clearly helps the GMC get the teams that deserve to get into the playoffs into the playoffs. But I would argue that since going to an 8 game league schedule NO GMC team worthy of the playoffs has missed the playoffs.

I'm not interested in getting 5 or more GMC teams into the playoffs because as someone who watches a LOT of GMC football that would be like giving every kid on an 0 - 20 youth soccer team a participation trophy. The quality of football being played by half the conference in any given year does not justify a playoff berth.

As for West Clermont making the playoffs my guess is that going forward they will be a regular playoff participant. Glen Este was a solid football program and the numbers in Clermont county are booming. As for Milford, I would never underestimate the skill Tom Grippa has in turning programs around. I saw it first hand here in FF.

Out of curiosity what do the powers that be at Elder say about all this? Have they ever issued a formal or even informal comment on their scheduling issues?

On the one hand I could support a rotating GMC/GCLS challenge series of games in week 1 & 2. It would make for great crowds (and money flow) and you could have Freshman, JV & Varsity games. The issue I suspect would be Harbin points. As it is the GMC cannibalizes a lot of points and that's why playing Region 3 teams in weeks 1 & 2 is so attractive.

Bottom line though as others have noted on the general football board there are big conference changes coming in the near future and if the GMC were to ever drop to being an 8 team league it would free up an extra OOC game. In that scenario playing a GCLS team might make sense from a money/travel standpoint even if it hurts a little from a Harbin POV.
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  #34  
Old 08-16-18, 09:39 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I agree V&R that the regional setup clearly helps the GMC get the teams that deserve to get into the playoffs into the playoffs. But I would argue that since going to an 8 game league schedule NO GMC team worthy of the playoffs has missed the playoffs.

I'm not interested in getting 5 or more GMC teams into the playoffs because as someone who watches a LOT of GMC football that would be like giving every kid on an 0 - 20 youth soccer team a participation trophy. The quality of football being played by half the conference in any given year does not justify a playoff berth.

As for West Clermont making the playoffs my guess is that going forward they will be a regular playoff participant. Glen Este was a solid football program and the numbers in Clermont county are booming. As for Milford, I would never underestimate the skill Tom Grippa has in turning programs around. I saw it first hand here in FF.

Out of curiosity what do the powers that be at Elder say about all this? Have they ever issued a formal or even informal comment on their scheduling issues?

On the one hand I could support a rotating GMC/GCLS challenge series of games in week 1 & 2. It would make for great crowds (and money flow) and you could have Freshman, JV & Varsity games. The issue I suspect would be Harbin points. As it is the GMC cannibalizes a lot of points and that's why playing Region 3 teams in weeks 1 & 2 is so attractive.

Bottom line though as others have noted on the general football board there are big conference changes coming in the near future and if the GMC were to ever drop to being an 8 team league it would free up an extra OOC game. In that scenario playing a GCLS team might make sense from a money/travel standpoint even if it hurts a little from a Harbin POV.
I highly doubt Elderís ever launched a formal complaint. Iím sure theyíre not happy about having to play they likes of Broward or Pitt Prep. Plus, the games just arenít as exciting when the Visitor side is empty.


What are the conference changes? Is it Sycamore moving to the ECC?
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  #35  
Old 08-16-18, 09:41 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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And I know they’re D3, but I wish Elder could get Alter on the schedule. The talent gap is greatly diminished b/w Divisions, and Alter usually has 1-2 P5 D1 Recruits.
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  #36  
Old 08-16-18, 09:45 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
Screw the stupid road trip, it’s about winning games. MBA would be a steep challenge, but better than any of the Football Factories. And I think X played Brentwood Academy, which is the other TN power.
Not sure much of a difference exists between playing Eds/Iggy vs playing MBA/Brentwood in distance or competition.
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  #37  
Old 08-16-18, 09:56 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
Out of curiosity what do the powers that be at Elder say about all this? Have they ever issued a formal or even informal comment on their scheduling issues?
If it was up to Elder they would play all local rivals 99% of the time. Out-of-state games are considerably more costly + you often cant schedule JV or Freshman games. They also dont bring any $$$ to The Pit. It is the new normal and Elder has been dealing with this for 20 years now.

IMO the perfect Elder schedule would include the following teams...

Moe
X
LaSalle
Colerain
OH
Cov Cath/Highlands/Ryle
East Central/SE Indiana
GMC/Fairfield/Sycamore/Lakota/Mason
Winton Woods
Turpin/Walnut/Harrison/Anderson
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  #38  
Old 08-16-18, 10:16 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Not sure much of a difference exists between playing Eds/Iggy vs playing MBA/Brentwood in distance or competition.
As long as itís done with football in mind and not a weekend road trip. The thought of tinkering w/ the schedule for non football reasons pisses me off.
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  #39  
Old 08-16-18, 10:21 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
If it was up to Elder they would play all local rivals 99% of the time. Out-of-state games are considerably more costly + you often cant schedule JV or Freshman games. They also dont bring any $$$ to The Pit. It is the new normal and Elder has been dealing with this for 20 years now.

IMO the perfect Elder schedule would include the following teams...

Moe
X
LaSalle
Colerain
OH
Cov Cath/Highlands/Ryle
East Central/SE Indiana
GMC/Fairfield/Sycamore/Lakota/Mason
Winton Woods
Turpin/Walnut/Harrison/Anderson
I understand your point, in this being ideal, but not realistic. IMO, the best realistic schedule would be (in no order)


X
LS
Moe
Cov Cath
Alter
Cathedral/Chatard
St Charles Prep- they suck, but play Elder on the JV Level
Rotating GMC team
Winton Woods

9 games vs a decent schedule where the GCL teams will generally be your toughest competition.
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  #40  
Old 08-16-18, 10:40 AM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
As long as itís done with football in mind and not a weekend road trip. The thought of tinkering w/ the schedule for non football reasons pisses me off.
I think he meant roadtrip/weekend trip for the fans, not the players.
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  #41  
Old 08-16-18, 10:44 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
I think he meant roadtrip/weekend trip for the fans, not the players.
I know, still pisses me off. You don’t schedule games so the fans can have a vacation
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  #42  
Old 08-16-18, 10:50 AM
trey2k trey2k is offline
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Doesn't hurt. What do you have against the fans having fun?
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  #43  
Old 08-16-18, 10:57 AM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by trey2k View Post
Doesn't hurt. What do you have against the fans having fun?
It shouldnít be the reason to schedule a game.
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  #44  
Old 08-16-18, 11:32 AM
polar panther polar panther is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
It shouldnít be the reason to schedule a game.
I donít to think he meant it as the reason, just icing on the cake
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  #45  
Old 08-16-18, 11:35 AM
PURPLE REIGN PURPLE REIGN is offline
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Everyone knew what I meant, except one person
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  #46  
Old 08-16-18, 04:23 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
A team from TN also makes sense. Surprised it hasn't happened. Be great to schedule a Knoxville or Nashville team. I'm sure quite a few fans would turn it into a fun road trip.

Usually a couple good programs from TN in USA Today rankings. Im drawing a blank on the name but I know X played ?Montgomery Bell? a couple years ago.
I have been wishing for a Knoxville team for a few year now. I would love to spend a weekend in Gatlinburg.

West Virginia would be another double trip, but WV schools seem to be a lot smaller than Ohio Schools. I looked into WV a few years ago and not many schools what would be up toe the challenge.
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  #47  
Old 08-16-18, 04:44 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
I have been wishing for a Knoxville team for a few year now. I would love to spend a weekend in Gatlinburg.

West Virginia would be another double trip, but WV schools seem to be a lot smaller than Ohio Schools. I looked into WV a few years ago and not many schools what would be up toe the challenge.
Nobody gives a damn what you want. Take a vacation their on your own time.
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  #48  
Old 08-16-18, 04:45 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I agree V&R that the regional setup clearly helps the GMC get the teams that deserve to get into the playoffs into the playoffs. But I would argue that since going to an 8 game league schedule NO GMC team worthy of the playoffs has missed the playoffs.

I'm not interested in getting 5 or more GMC teams into the playoffs because as someone who watches a LOT of GMC football that would be like giving every kid on an 0 - 20 youth soccer team a participation trophy. The quality of football being played by half the conference in any given year does not justify a playoff berth.

As for West Clermont making the playoffs my guess is that going forward they will be a regular playoff participant. Glen Este was a solid football program and the numbers in Clermont county are booming. As for Milford, I would never underestimate the skill Tom Grippa has in turning programs around. I saw it first hand here in FF.

Out of curiosity what do the powers that be at Elder say about all this? Have they ever issued a formal or even informal comment on their scheduling issues?

On the one hand I could support a rotating GMC/GCLS challenge series of games in week 1 & 2. It would make for great crowds (and money flow) and you could have Freshman, JV & Varsity games. The issue I suspect would be Harbin points. As it is the GMC cannibalizes a lot of points and that's why playing Region 3 teams in weeks 1 & 2 is so attractive.

Bottom line though as others have noted on the general football board there are big conference changes coming in the near future and if the GMC were to ever drop to being an 8 team league it would free up an extra OOC game. In that scenario playing a GCLS team might make sense from a money/travel standpoint even if it hurts a little from a Harbin POV.
Just like any school Elder schedules with the AD and Coach. Those are the two votes that should count the most and do. I have a feeling every so often a "college" buddy might coach at his old HS in a different area and a game might come up that way, but it isn't the norm.

I disagree, I believe Elder was better than Fairfield, Scyamore, Milford, and West Clermont last year. Head to head Elder wins all four of those games. I always look at a teams record with a grain of salt. Remember in2008 Woodward went 10-0 and got blown out by Wayne in the playoffs.

West Clermont is growing, but I don't see them being a Colerain or Mentor. I see them more as an Upper Arlington or Centerville.

Grippa changed Fairfield around, but I think he ended up about 32-33 or so. He has the power to have a couple of good teams, but long term success doesn't follow him.

I would be for a GMC/GCLS challenge in weeks 1 and 2. I think Elder should always play Oak Hills, Colerain/LaSalle, and Moeller/Sycamore. But Elder had to drop Oak Hills for the same reason they had to drop West Hi, they are so bad it hurts us in the Harbins. The problem is what benefit does Lakota East have from playing a GCLS? They aren't in the same neighborhood, The odds of them winning aren't good. They get no benefit and in this world it is all about who can benefit themselves.

I think the GCLS will stay in the same league for the foreseeable future, but the GMC could be changing. Too many variables to list, but it could change.
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  #49  
Old 08-16-18, 04:46 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Originally Posted by PURPLE REIGN View Post
Everyone knew what I meant, except one person
This place is so much better when you ignore that one or two posters. Remember no one gives a damn what he thinks anyway.
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  #50  
Old 08-16-18, 04:49 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
This place is so much better when you ignore that one or two posters. Remember no one gives a damn what he thinks anyway.
Who do you think you are? Youíre kids arenít even going to Elder and you threw a hissy fit over a merry go round.
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  #51  
Old 08-16-18, 05:25 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
I highly doubt Elderís ever launched a formal complaint. Iím sure theyíre not happy about having to play they likes of Broward or Pitt Prep. Plus, the games just arenít as exciting when the Visitor side is empty.


What are the conference changes? Is it Sycamore moving to the ECC?
This is PURE SPECULATION on my part but I could see Sycamore, Middletown and Oak Hills all moving on in the next couple of years and West Clermont joining the league. I suspect that Lebanon would not join so an 8 team GMC is a very real possibility.
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  #52  
Old 08-16-18, 05:33 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Vincent and Regina View Post
Just like any school Elder schedules with the AD and Coach. Those are the two votes that should count the most and do. I have a feeling every so often a "college" buddy might coach at his old HS in a different area and a game might come up that way, but it isn't the norm.

I disagree, I believe Elder was better than Fairfield, Scyamore, Milford, and West Clermont last year. Head to head Elder wins all four of those games. I always look at a teams record with a grain of salt. Remember in2008 Woodward went 10-0 and got blown out by Wayne in the playoffs.

West Clermont is growing, but I don't see them being a Colerain or Mentor. I see them more as an Upper Arlington or Centerville.

Grippa changed Fairfield around, but I think he ended up about 32-33 or so. He has the power to have a couple of good teams, but long term success doesn't follow him.

I would be for a GMC/GCLS challenge in weeks 1 and 2. I think Elder should always play Oak Hills, Colerain/LaSalle, and Moeller/Sycamore. But Elder had to drop Oak Hills for the same reason they had to drop West Hi, they are so bad it hurts us in the Harbins. The problem is what benefit does Lakota East have from playing a GCLS? They aren't in the same neighborhood, The odds of them winning aren't good. They get no benefit and in this world it is all about who can benefit themselves.

I think the GCLS will stay in the same league for the foreseeable future, but the GMC could be changing. Too many variables to list, but it could change.
As I've noted on other threads I don't believe that you have to play a tough schedule to go deep into the playoffs. There are to many examples of D1 public Ohio High Schools who have won state championships in the same years they played an "easy" schedule. Ohio Public D1 football programs not named Colerain, Wayne or Mentor typically go up & down in talent so scheduling is only a minor factor as to whether they'll be good in any given year.

As I see it the biggest advantage for a GMC team to play a GCLS team is gate receipts & concession sales. With the current Regional set-up even if the GMC looses 2/3 of the match-ups they still have a decent chance to make the playoffs if they go 5 - 1 in the conference. Last year FF made the playoffs even though losing 2 close games to Centerville & Northmont. Frankly I would rather have lost to St. X & Elder. It wouldn't have made a Harbin difference to us (other then Elder getting into the playoff over FF but our numbers would have stayed constant) but we would have had a much bigger crowd for our home game and my drive would have been a lot less going to the Pitt or X as opposed to Dayton.
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  #53  
Old 08-16-18, 05:42 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
This is PURE SPECULATION on my part but I could see Sycamore, Middletown and Oak Hills all moving on in the next couple of years and West Clermont joining the league. I suspect that Lebanon would not join so an 8 team GMC is a very real possibility.
Where could OH even go? Thereís no D1 equivalent near them
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  #54  
Old 08-16-18, 08:01 PM
Vincent and Regina Vincent and Regina is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
As I've noted on other threads I don't believe that you have to play a tough schedule to go deep into the playoffs. There are to many examples of D1 public Ohio High Schools who have won state championships in the same years they played an "easy" schedule. Ohio Public D1 football programs not named Colerain, Wayne or Mentor typically go up & down in talent so scheduling is only a minor factor as to whether they'll be good in any given year.

As I see it the biggest advantage for a GMC team to play a GCLS team is gate receipts & concession sales. With the current Regional set-up even if the GMC looses 2/3 of the match-ups they still have a decent chance to make the playoffs if they go 5 - 1 in the conference. Last year FF made the playoffs even though losing 2 close games to Centerville & Northmont. Frankly I would rather have lost to St. X & Elder. It wouldn't have made a Harbin difference to us (other then Elder getting into the playoff over FF but our numbers would have stayed constant) but we would have had a much bigger crowd for our home game and my drive would have been a lot less going to the Pitt or X as opposed to Dayton.
You have forgot Elder doesn't travel as much as they use to. The last few years at Winton Woods, I have been disappointed in our fans not driving out to Winton Woods. A few games we played Moeller we didn't have many people at Lockland. We draw good at X, LaSalle, and Oak Hills, but we don't play many local teams besides those people.

Trust me I would love to play Harrison, East Central, Loveland, Kings, the Lakotas, but they are not lining up to play us. But the risk of playing in Region teams is greater than playing out of Region teams. Take your example if Elder played and beat Fairfield last year, Elder would have been in and Fairfield would have been out. That is what people are scheduling against
.
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  #55  
Old 08-16-18, 10:29 PM
EHS 2001 EHS 2001 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
Where could OH even go? Thereís no D1 equivalent near them
The only conference anyone has ever mentioned for Oak Hills is the SWOC.

Would Middletown join the GWOC?
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  #56  
Old 08-16-18, 10:37 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Originally Posted by EHS 2001 View Post
The only conference anyone has ever mentioned for Oak Hills is the SWOC.

Would Middletown join the GWOC?
It’s not like OH can’t compete in every other sport. Also, not sure how a school that big can justify moving into a conference with Nwest, Ross, Talawanda, and Edgewood.

Middletown to the GWOC would make sense.
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  #57  
Old 08-17-18, 09:33 PM
Dale Cooper Dale Cooper is offline
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Interesting note, Massillon’s 1st string beat Ed’s 21-14 in a scrimmage, with final score of 35-14. No idea if Eds had guys out, but that’s an interesting tidbit.
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  #58  
Old 08-18-18, 06:54 AM
ElderHSfan02 ElderHSfan02 is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Week 0 (KY/IN week 1):

8/17
Indianapolis Cathedral (0-0) vs. Noblesville
Football North (0-0) vs. COF Academy (OH)
Cathedral beat Noblesville 31-7
https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ts/1024146002/
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  #59  
Old 08-18-18, 07:02 AM
ElderHSfan02 ElderHSfan02 is offline
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Football North 35
COF Academy 0
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  #60  
Old 08-18-18, 10:40 PM
adselder09 adselder09 is offline
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Originally Posted by adselder09 View Post
Week 0 (KY/IN week 1):

8/17
Indianapolis Cathedral (1-0) def. Noblesville 31-7
Football North (1-0) def. COF Academy (OH) 35-0
Good opening weekend for the Panther opponents.
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