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  #301  
Old 03-25-16, 07:17 AM
Frank Underwood Frank Underwood is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Did you really say this? Can you even spell irony?
Well he can now that you have him the answer!
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  #302  
Old 03-25-16, 07:21 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Originally Posted by BlueJayFan View Post
You think a business should be able to refuse service to someone because they're black then?
No, if you're in the business of selling goods and services then sell your goods and services and don't be a d0uche about it.

I do think businesses should be able to have dress codes and such if they wish.
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  #303  
Old 03-25-16, 07:51 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
This is basically your response: no, it was not. You are either delusional or a liar.

- Muslims in the Middle East had a favorable attitude towards Americans prior to WW2. If these people are simple blood-thirsty haters of the West, how does that happen? Lulz. Who cares? You ignore the facts that most of these people but the upper layers of society knew very little of us or how we live, and you refuse to address that they are obligated to convert us to their religion by force, just as they did anyone in their limited sphere.

- We headed the support for the creation of Israel after WW2. This pissed off the Middle East...Doesn't matter. Israel is a good thing. It just is! We restored the homeland of a displaced and persecuted people. We chose a side, just as you do in being against them. Pretty simple. You have permitted yourself to say that is just wrong, but I am not afforded the same consideration ? You call that logic.

- Our want/need for oil was the root cause of numerous coups, shady dealings, and sanctions throughout the Cold War-era and beyond...Well, so what??!! It's not our fault if any of that upset them. Overthrowing democratic governments? Coups? kin right we did! We're the gotdamn USA, muthaka! And sanctions?! We talkin' 'bout sanctions?! They should be thankful for our sanctions! They had oil. We sought out their leaders. We used our methods to extract the oil and pay them for it. Would you cite even one example why that is wrong ? What are these numerous coups ? Why should anyone consider a deal "shady" just because you claim it is, when you can't even identify it ? Our leaders in government vote to levy sanctions. You won't describe them or say why they are unjust. What "Democratic" governments are you referring to ? Which coups offended your sensibilities ? You hate Christianity, yet defend a far more extremist religion in their desire to dictate everything that happens in their sight. You're pretty silly.

- We armed known radical Muslims headed by Osama bin Laden to fight our Cold War nemesis...Pfft. Come on. Sure, everyone knew these guys were nut-jobs, but what had WE ever done in the Middle East to cause the radicals to see us as an enemy? We the USA. Everything we do is justified. Remember that, bruh. Who is everybody that knew they were nut jobs ? You still won't address the fact that they were fighting a foreign invader taking over by force, and that you blame us for their reaction to stopping those funds when the invader withdrew. No one ever said everything we do is justifiable. You can't win an argument, so you just make up one that you think you can win, and call me crazy. Sounds about right for you.

- In the 80s we allied with a guy, Saddam, who ruled Iraq as a murderous dictator. He was a Sunni "balance" to a Shiite faction. What makes more sense to you ? Inaction ? In the early 90s, after Saddam crossed the line in Kuwait, we went to war against him at the asking of the Saudi's. And the Kuwaitis. He invaded a sovereign country, an ally, and they asked for help. At the same time, we occupied Muslim holy lands in Saudia Arabia. At the request of those in power. You respect the desire of an extremist group to call a piece of ground Holy, and honor their rage over us being in it when invited. And that's just OK. Interesting. We were kin' freedom fighters, bro! Who gives a sh!t about some towel-head holy lands? They can't hate us for that! They can hate us all they want. We were there by invitation. We cautioned our troops to be on their best behavior. Would you force all the soldiers to convert, or ignore the request of one because another dislikes us for being different ? That's just dumb. We're the USA! Ahhh kem! Bush Sr. was the greatest one term President in history!! I said that forming the UN coalition to drive Saddam out of Kuwait and back into Iraq was one of the few things he did that I respected. You pretend I said, "Bush Sr. was the greatest one term President in history!!", and you call me crazy. You ARE Mr Logic

The logic is flawless

You just couldn't help yourself with the "I know you hate Israel" comment.
Mine bold, and what you are "logically" pretending is mine underlined.
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  #304  
Old 03-25-16, 08:06 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Of course. Your arguments stink and it's my fault
Nooooo, your inability to actually learn anything is your fault.

You want to boil the Middle East down to the last 70 years and say that the US is the root of all evil in the Middle East. It isn't. You can't ignore the history and history in that region did NOT start with the birth of Israel.

The previous 19 centuries give you an idea of how the Middle East operates and what the followers of Mohammed do in the name of their religion. From the capture and rape of the original Israel to Boko Haram and Isis, the brutality and inhumanity of those that follow Islam is written in blood. Whatever happened anywhere else and for any other reason since doesn't change that fact. The march of Islam from Mecca to over a billion followers makes the Inquisition look like a cotillion, but more telling is that the brutality hasn't ended as the global community became more "enlightened". Is it everyone that is Muslim? No, but you can't deny that even the peaceful followers of Mohammed tend to be the pre-runners for what follows. They may not pull the triggers, swing the blade, or rape the children - but they don't exactly call them out either.
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  #305  
Old 03-25-16, 08:09 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
No, if you're in the business of selling goods and services then sell your goods and services and don't be a d0uche about it.

I do think businesses should be able to have dress codes and such if they wish.
That^ is fine if we are talking a simple transaction at a sales counter. I totally agree in most cases.

If the nature of the service requires participation or near-participation in a ceremony, or a creative endeavor from a person's "soul", it seems ridiculous to demand it.

When a gay couple seems to single out a baker that markets himself as a Christian, and attempts to force him to create what is essentially regarded as art for a ceremony that trashes centuries of religious convention, the gay guy is the d0uche, imo. Why would someone want something that is purported to represent a couple's love for one another to be created under duress, anyway ? It's embarrassing that our judges would even hear the argument.
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  #306  
Old 03-25-16, 08:10 AM
Uncle Ted Uncle Ted is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
No, if you're in the business of selling goods and services then sell your goods and services and don't be a d0uche about it.

I do think businesses should be able to have dress codes and such if they wish.
Same. If you offer a service to one group then I think it should be offered to anyone. I don't think the company should have to alter their service in anyway though. For ex: if I bake a cake for a straight couple and I put a male and female figurines on the cake then you should have to put a female and male figurines on the cake for a gay couple. I don't think the baker should be able to refuse service of the actual cake though.
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  #307  
Old 03-25-16, 08:16 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Nooooo, your inability to actually learn anything is your fault.

You want to boil the Middle East down to the last 70 years and say that the US is the root of all evil in the Middle East. It isn't. You can't ignore the history and history in that region did NOT start with the birth of Israel.

The previous 19 centuries give you an idea of how the Middle East operates and what the followers of Mohammed do in the name of their religion. From the capture and rape of the original Israel to Boko Haram and Isis, the brutality and inhumanity of those that follow Islam is written in blood. Whatever happened anywhere else and for any other reason since doesn't change that fact. The march of Islam from Mecca to over a billion followers makes the Inquisition look like a cotillion, but more telling is that the brutality hasn't ended as the global community became more "enlightened". Is it everyone that is Muslim? No, but you can't deny that even the peaceful followers of Mohammed tend to be the pre-runners for what follows. They may not pull the triggers, swing the blade, or rape the children - but they don't exactly call them out either.
This, from a guy that has zero respect for the religion of most people in his home country. He expects us to completely honor and respect a religion that would seem to be created specifically to violently project power, dominate and drive out all others in complete intolerance, and call it God's will. And he calls me crazy. Got it
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  #308  
Old 03-25-16, 08:52 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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It's ridiculous that partisan gerry-mandering is still permitted today. http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-one-vote.html

In this day and age, they need to implement a program that takes the number of districts desired, the number of people per district, census data, and just draws borders of the shortest total distance. Maybe build in some sort of preference deferring to municipal borders. Redraw every 10 years, irrespective of what party is in power. That is the only fair way to give all people an equal voice.
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  #309  
Old 03-25-16, 11:43 AM
SWMCinci SWMCinci is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
It's ridiculous that partisan gerry-mandering is still permitted today. http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-one-vote.html

In this day and age, they need to implement a program that takes the number of districts desired, the number of people per district, census data, and just draws borders of the shortest total distance. Maybe build in some sort of preference deferring to municipal borders. Redraw every 10 years, irrespective of what party is in power. That is the only fair way to give all people an equal voice.
I always thought that Congressional districts should consist of whole counties. Ohio has roughly 12 million people spread over 88 counties and 16 Congressional districts. That means each Congressman would be "responsible" for about 5 counties each (average). You might have 1 for Hamilton, Cuyahoga, Lucas, and Franklin and someone else may be handling 10 counties to get the populations roughly equal. But you eliminate the situations where the black guy that lives on the corner has one rep, one side of the street has another, and the other side has still another.

We generally get dumber results when trying to rig the system for some type of "equality" or quota system.
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  #310  
Old 03-25-16, 12:11 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
Same. If you offer a service to one group then I think it should be offered to anyone. I don't think the company should have to alter their service in anyway though. For ex: if I bake a cake for a straight couple and I put a male and female figurines on the cake then you should have to put a female and male figurines on the cake for a gay couple. I don't think the baker should be able to refuse service of the actual cake though.
I'm cool with that.
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  #311  
Old 03-25-16, 12:42 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
I always thought that Congressional districts should consist of whole counties. Ohio has roughly 12 million people spread over 88 counties and 16 Congressional districts. That means each Congressman would be "responsible" for about 5 counties each (average). You might have 1 for Hamilton, Cuyahoga, Lucas, and Franklin and someone else may be handling 10 counties to get the populations roughly equal. But you eliminate the situations where the black guy that lives on the corner has one rep, one side of the street has another, and the other side has still another.

We generally get dumber results when trying to rig the system for some type of "equality" or quota system.
That could work in a lot of situations, but you'd still have the party in power gaming the system. SE Lorain County is essentially identical to western Medina County. No need to separate them to hold to a county count. A bias toward intact municipalities would be all we'd need.

Given that federal districts are awarded or removed based upon population, I think it's important that they are formed along strict population guidelines. Trying to keep everything as "square" possible by having the shortest border distance and moving borders laterally as needed keeps some integrity in the process. It's the linear reaches that most facilitate abuse, and stringing out 5 counties in a row could do the same thing. Let the votes fall where they may.
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  #312  
Old 03-25-16, 01:39 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Nooooo, your inability to actually learn anything is your fault.

You want to boil the Middle East down to the last 70 years and say that the US is the root of all evil in the Middle East. It isn't. You can't ignore the history and history in that region did NOT start with the birth of Israel.

The previous 19 centuries give you an idea of how the Middle East operates and what the followers of Mohammed do in the name of their religion. From the capture and rape of the original Israel to Boko Haram and Isis, the brutality and inhumanity of those that follow Islam is written in blood. Whatever happened anywhere else and for any other reason since doesn't change that fact. The march of Islam from Mecca to over a billion followers makes the Inquisition look like a cotillion, but more telling is that the brutality hasn't ended as the global community became more "enlightened". Is it everyone that is Muslim? No, but you can't deny that even the peaceful followers of Mohammed tend to be the pre-runners for what follows. They may not pull the triggers, swing the blade, or rape the children - but they don't exactly call them out either.
You should read some actual history about the Muslim conquests; the reality is much different than what you think.
You might be surprised to learn that not only were they tolerant of minority faiths, but they had Christian inhabitants of areas that welcomed Muslim armies because Muslim rule was a lot better than Sassanid rule, as an example. You were a whole lot better off being a Christian or Jew under Muslim rule than a Muslim or Jew under Christian rule.
Rape and capture of the original Israel by the Muslims ????
The fact is that the Sassinids [their religion was Zoroastrianism ] in 614, who were not Muslims; massacred the Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Byzantines then captured the city and massacred Jews because they thought they had helped the Persians[Sassanids]
In 637, the Muslims took the city and did not kill anyone; as terms for the surrender[ The Umariyya Covenant] the Muslims gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians.
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  #313  
Old 03-25-16, 02:23 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Muslims did have a generally favorable view of Americans up until around 1970, that is because American policy was anti colonial. It was the US, for ex; that stopped the Israeli/French/British invasion of Egypt in 56'.
The British headed the move for the formation of Israel, the US was a latecomer to the party.
American involvement in the middle east and Iran in particular was in response to Russian imperialism.The Russian occupied the northern part of Iran during WW2 and it had been Russian policy for a couple of hundred years to gain control of Iran. At the time of the Iranian coup to put the Shah in power, oil was not the motivating factor for the US; countering the communists was. It was Britain who had the vast majority of oil holdings in Iran, not the US.
Osama was not a leader of the Mujahideen, it wasn't until after the Afghanistan war and Abdullah Yusuf Azam died[ probably assinnated by Bin Laden] that Bin Laden took control of Al Quada. We supported the Afghanistan resistance groups[ the majority being led by various warlords] because it served our interest, just like Ho Chi Minh was an American ally in WW2, where we gave him arms to fight the Japanese.
We were never allied to Saddam Hussein, he was a Russin ally . Between Iran and Iraq, we would want Iraq to win; but at no point were we an ally. We did support with money and arms the Kurdish population until they were decisively defeated by Iraq in the Second Iraqi Kurdish war in 75'.
We did give Iraq info on Iranian OOB and satellite photos and took Iraq off the terrorism list in 83'; but our desired aim was a stalemate in that war where we benefitted if both sides killed themselves
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  #314  
Old 03-25-16, 03:53 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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Medical experts call for global drug decriminalisation

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The commission, set up by the Lancet medical journal and Johns Hopkins University in the United States, finds that tough drugs laws have caused misery, failed to curb drug use, fueled violent crime and spread the epidemics of HIV and hepatitis C through unsafe injecting.
Quote:
“The goal of prohibiting all use, possession, production, and trafficking of illicit drugs is the basis of many of our national drug laws, but these policies are based on ideas about drug use and drug dependence that are not scientifically grounded,” says Dr Chris Beyrer of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, a member of the commission.
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  #315  
Old 03-25-16, 03:59 PM
ronnie mund ronnie mund is offline
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And while I'm at it:

Report: Aide says Nixon's war on drugs targeted blacks, hippies

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"We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
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  #316  
Old 03-25-16, 04:10 PM
lotr10 lotr10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
You should read some actual history about the Muslim conquests; the reality is much different than what you think.
You might be surprised to learn that not only were they tolerant of minority faiths, but they had Christian inhabitants of areas that welcomed Muslim armies because Muslim rule was a lot better than Sassanid rule, as an example. You were a whole lot better off being a Christian or Jew under Muslim rule than a Muslim or Jew under Christian rule.
Rape and capture of the original Israel by the Muslims ????
The fact is that the Sassinids [their religion was Zoroastrianism ] in 614, who were not Muslims; massacred the Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Byzantines then captured the city and massacred Jews because they thought they had helped the Persians[Sassanids]
In 637, the Muslims took the city and did not kill anyone; as terms for the surrender[ The Umariyya Covenant] the Muslims gave guarantees of civil and religious liberty to Christians.
I think you're cheery picking your history a bit here. Sure there were times of genuine tolerance by Muslim sects/leaders towards the "infidels" but the overall direction was towards a unitary Muslim culture in Muslim lands. Discussions of the relationships between the lands, cultures and religions of the period of ancient history you describe would require a 1,000 page book and still not fully cover what happened.

I choose to study a more recent time that is more relevant to me and so depend on a brilliant historian like Samuel Huntington to describe to me the clash between Islam and everything else:

http://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civiliza...8939928&sr=1-1

The "bloody borders" of Islam are real and when a religion which is really a culture, political philosophy and religious belief all rolled up into one can't coexist with ANY other culture I know who is responsible for the problem.
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  #317  
Old 03-25-16, 04:25 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by ronnie mund View Post
What a pathetic quote. The original neo-cons.

The penalties for heroin trafficking should be severe. Destroying the lives of others for profit should bear a heavy price. Possession is another matter.
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  #318  
Old 03-25-16, 04:28 PM
Gardens35 Gardens35 is online now
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600,000 Muslims in Belgium, and the authorities have to use "recognition" technology to try to identify the suspects.
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  #319  
Old 03-25-16, 04:32 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Gardens35 View Post
600,000 Muslims in Belgium, and the authorities have to use "recognition" technology to try to identify the suspects.
Sharia could be advantageous to small terrorists in drag, I guess.
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  #320  
Old 03-25-16, 04:34 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by lotr10 View Post
I think you're cheery picking your history a bit here. Sure there were times of genuine tolerance by Muslim sects/leaders towards the "infidels" but the overall direction was towards a unitary Muslim culture in Muslim lands. Discussions of the relationships between the lands, cultures and religions of the period of ancient history you describe would require a 1,000 page book and still not fully cover what happened.

I choose to study a more recent time that is more relevant to me and so depend on a brilliant historian like Samuel Huntington to describe to me the clash between Islam and everything else:

http://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civiliza...8939928&sr=1-1

The "bloody borders" of Islam are real and when a religion which is really a culture, political philosophy and religious belief all rolled up into one can't coexist with ANY other culture I know who is responsible for the problem.
Here is something else to consider - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassal...Ottoman_Empire

Fundamentalist expansionism could give way to enterprise eventually.
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  #321  
Old 03-26-16, 05:37 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by SWMCinci View Post
Nooooo, your inability to actually learn anything is your fault.

You want to boil the Middle East down to the last 70 years and say that the US is the root of all evil in the Middle East. It isn't. You can't ignore the history and history in that region did NOT start with the birth of Israel.

The previous 19 centuries give you an idea of how the Middle East operates and what the followers of Mohammed do in the name of their religion. From the capture and rape of the original Israel to Boko Haram and Isis, the brutality and inhumanity of those that follow Islam is written in blood. Whatever happened anywhere else and for any other reason since doesn't change that fact. The march of Islam from Mecca to over a billion followers makes the Inquisition look like a cotillion, but more telling is that the brutality hasn't ended as the global community became more "enlightened". Is it everyone that is Muslim? No, but you can't deny that even the peaceful followers of Mohammed tend to be the pre-runners for what follows. They may not pull the triggers, swing the blade, or rape the children - but they don't exactly call them out either.
I'm allowed to do that when the issue is specifically HOW THE US' INVOLVEMENT HAS CREATED TODAY'S POLITICAL CLIMATE IN THE MIDDLE EAST; the existence of Al Qaeda and ISIS are DIRECTLY attributed to US POLICIES.

The problem is, you want to disregard the US' actions because Muslims have a history of violence dating back to 600 AD. So do Christians. It's not a good argument nor does it explain the current state of affairs.
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  #322  
Old 03-26-16, 06:15 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
no, it was not. You are either delusional or a liar.
Yes, it actually was

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
You ignore the facts that most of these people but the upper layers of society knew very little of us or how we live, and you refuse to address that they are obligated to convert us to their religion by force, just as they did anyone in their limited sphere.
My little sphere Tell me, genius, how this works: Muslims are simply blood thirsty, infidel-killing, haters of the West, yet they held the a favorable attitude toward Americans. If you really think "not having 24 hours news access" is a viable excuse, you fail to recognize your reasoning is incompatible with your argument. People in the Middle East knew the US was 99% Christian, and yet they held a POSITIVE attitude. I'm sure this hurts your brain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
We restored the homeland of a displaced and persecuted people. We chose a side, just as you do in being against them. Pretty simple. You have permitted yourself to say that is just wrong, but I am not afforded the same consideration ? You call that logic.
Restored the homeland of a displaced and persecuted people? That's an epic spin there, old boy. The Jewish "homeland" existed for less than 300 years, starting in the 900s BC. It takes an insane amount of twisted logic to say they had any right to that land in the 1940s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
They had oil. We sought out their leaders. We used our methods to extract the oil and pay them for it. Would you cite even one example why that is wrong ? What are these numerous coups ? Why should anyone consider a deal "shady" just because you claim it is, when you can't even identify it ? Our leaders in government vote to levy sanctions. You won't describe them or say why they are unjust. What "Democratic" governments are you referring to ? Which coups offended your sensibilities ? You hate Christianity, yet defend a far more extremist religion in their desire to dictate everything that happens in their sight. You're pretty silly.
They had oil. We sought their leaders. When they wouldn't cooperate, we made them. Tell me, if Putin decided to infiltrate Washington, rig our elections, rig our government, and/or replace government figures with his own pro-Russian guys, would it be our fault for taking offense?

The main coups: Syria and Iran.

We can look right to Saudia Arabia for the glaring example of "shady dealing". Our "freedom fighting" is sure blind to the much-hated Saudi dictatorial government we are such good biddies with.

Our leaders in government also voted for Obamacare. By your logic, it was the right call and no one has a right to be mad about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Who is everybody that knew they were nut jobs ? You still won't address the fact that they were fighting a foreign invader taking over by force, and that you blame us for their reaction to stopping those funds when the invader withdrew. No one ever said everything we do is justifiable. You can't win an argument, so you just make up one that you think you can win, and call me crazy. Sounds about right for you.
Mujihadeen is literally the term used for one engaging in a jihad. You seriously can't be so thick as to think our government had no idea what these people were.

Who cares if they fighting the USSR? You think it's justified to arm jihadists just because they'll take up arms against our enemy? The same thing happened in Syria and now we have ISIS to deal with. Do you really not understand this problem?

Their reaction wasn't our withdrawing of funds. They reacted to multiple actions taken by the US government throughout the Middle East, particularly the Persian Gulf region and Israel, as well as their feelings of the West taking advantage of the Middle East economically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
He was a Sunni "balance" to a Shiite faction. What makes more sense to you ? Inaction ?
If this justified "balance" equates to putting the Ba'ath party in power and supplying a murderous dictator, then you are seriously f***ed in the head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
And the Kuwaitis. He invaded a sovereign country, an ally, and they asked for help.
What a surprise, the murderous, power hungry dictator we helped decided to use our supplies to invade a neighboring country. Are you still struggling to see the problems here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
At the request of those in power. You respect the desire of an extremist group to call a piece of ground Holy, and honor their rage over us being in it when invited. And that's just OK. Interesting.
At the request of our dictatorial oil buddies, the Saudis, because they refused to go to war with another Muslim nation. I guess sending our soldiers to war and blowing billions of dollars is fine as long as it keeps our oil buddies happy. It's even better when we can spin it as a "freedom coalition".

I'm pointing out the complete lack of reason and the heavy hypocrisy. We all know if Muslims invaded and occupied Israel, the religious right in this country would lose their sh!t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
They can hate us all they want. We were there by invitation. We cautioned our troops to be on their best behavior. Would you force all the soldiers to convert, or ignore the request of one because another dislikes us for being different ? That's just dumb.
Invitation You act like we were invited to a wedding party Jesus Christ

I wouldn't have sent them at all, I think that's pretty clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
I said that forming the UN coalition to drive Saddam out of Kuwait and back into Iraq was one of the few things he did that I respected. You pretend I said, "Bush Sr. was the greatest one term President in history!!", and you call me crazy. You ARE Mr Logic
You don't understand, the topic at hand is the ways in which the US has meddled with and f***ed up the ME for themselves. Your appeal to Bush Sr. having accomplished something you respect was completely irrelevant.

Last edited by Crusaders; 03-26-16 at 06:31 PM.
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  #323  
Old 03-26-16, 07:28 PM
Nelson Van Alden Nelson Van Alden is offline
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I don't care who wins the election as long as it's not Bernie. His supporters are a billion times more obnoxious than when Obama ran in '08.
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  #324  
Old 03-26-16, 08:04 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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I'm allowed to do that when the issue is specifically HOW THE US' INVOLVEMENT HAS CREATED TODAY'S POLITICAL CLIMATE IN THE MIDDLE EAST; the existence of Al Qaeda and ISIS are DIRECTLY attributed to US POLICIES.

The problem is, you want to disregard the US' actions because Muslims have a history of violence dating back to 600 AD. So do Christians. It's not a good argument nor does it explain the current state of affairs.
This word is where you fall on your face and look like a fool......again.

Try "CONTRIBUTED TO", or "EXACERBATED", or even "BEEN A MAJOR IMPETUS IN ARRIVING AT" if you want reasonable individuals to take you seriously..............



Yeah .......nevermind. Too late.
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  #325  
Old 03-26-16, 08:46 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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Quibble quibble quibble
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  #326  
Old 03-26-16, 08:54 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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..... Your appeal to Bush Sr. having accomplished something you respect was completely irrelevant.
I'm bored with your merry-go-round of idiocy, but I did find this^ particularly funny, given that you yourself first brought up the first Gulf War.

Do you remember it ? I do. Very well. I was 28.

Saddam had plenty of time to back out and head home as the troops built up in Saudi Arabia. When the air strikes began, it should have been obvious things would not go well for him. Still had time to back out. We would not have pursued him. The air strikes would have stopped.

I will say this; I felt embarrassed to be an American when I heard some of the casual news "play-by-play" commentary over the targeting camera footage. Some may as well have been describing a 3-point shot, a home run, or a field goal. I found that disgusting.
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Old 03-26-16, 09:07 PM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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You still don't understand.

I mentioned the Gulf War as one of the issues regarding US ME policy as well as one of the reasons Al Qaeda marked us as an enemy. Much, perhaps you could say all, of what led to that war, the US government had a part in. Saddam's party was put into place by the US government in the late 60s. The US government over the next couple of decades would support that party. After a rough start with Saddam, they would eventually come to support his regime, supplying him with weapons and whatnot. Saddam then decided to get greedy, and the US, at the asking of the Saudis, had to push him back.

It's just one of the examples in which US had to go in and clean up their own mess. The fact you think it was a respectable venture by Bush Sr. 1. displays your ignorance 2. is not relevant.
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  #328  
Old 03-26-16, 09:53 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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You still don't understand.

I mentioned the Gulf War as one of the issues regarding US ME policy as well as one of the reasons Al Qaeda marked us as an enemy. Much, perhaps you could say all, of what led to that war, the US government had a part in. Saddam's party was put into place by the US government in the late 60s. The US government over the next couple of decades would support that party. After a rough start with Saddam, they would eventually come to support his regime, supplying him with weapons and whatnot. Saddam then decided to get greedy, and the US, at the asking of the Saudis, had to push him back.

It's just one of the examples in which US had to go in and clean up their own mess. The fact you think it was a respectable venture by Bush Sr. 1. displays your ignorance 2. is not relevant.
I understand completely why it is that you fail here........again.

You begin with the premise that the reactions and actions of radical Muslims are all justified. You are blind. Your judgments are as flawed as a series of mathematical operations that begin with an error just compounding itself down the line. You are irretrievable.
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  #329  
Old 03-27-16, 12:57 AM
Crusaders Crusaders is offline
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No, I didn't That's your assumption. My premise is that the US' ME policies have lead to state of affairs today. If you cannot discern the difference, that's on you.

Your judgments are completely flawed and devoid of logic and reason. You can claim mine are flawed but I've displayed a great understanding of it all than you. With that in mind, I think it's safe to say you are ignorant of this topic and thus, completely wrong.

Last edited by Crusaders; 03-27-16 at 01:10 AM.
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  #330  
Old 03-27-16, 07:00 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
No, I didn't That's your assumption. My premise is that the US' ME policies have lead to state of affairs today. If you cannot discern the difference, that's on you.

Your judgments are completely flawed and devoid of logic and reason. You can claim mine are flawed but I've displayed a great understanding of it all than you. With that in mind, I think it's safe to say you are ignorant of this topic and thus, completely wrong.
What is safe to say is that this author understands the real source of the problems emanating from the Middle East:

Quote:
'Being able to say “Islamic extremism” or “radical Islam” or “jihad” without fear of backlash is what it’s going to take to get America on the same page. Being on the same page means recognizing that Islam birthed this “radical” interpretation of faith more than 1,400 years ago, and stands today as the ultimate threat to a free world—greater than any threat posed by a fleeting moment in time that gave rise to Adolf Hitler. We didn’t hesitate to call a thing by its name 70 years ago, and we cannot hesitate now.'
http://thefederalist.com/2016/03/24/...slamic-terror/

The blame game that you play in trying to pin the responsibility solely on US policies and to justify terrorists' motivation is what is devoid of reason here.

Happy Easter.
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