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  #1  
Old 01-31-18, 01:36 AM
MATCAT67 MATCAT67 is offline
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Federal League Expansion

Let's pretend that the Federal League was expanding and needed two new teams to fill slots. The federal League now consists of Perry, Hoover, Lake, GlenOak, McKinley, Jackson and Green. The most recent former members are Austintown Fitch and Boardman and while these two teams were competitive and remain that way now, geographically they were both outliers. With the exception of Green, the Federal League is a Stark County league and is one of Ohio's top conferences. That being said, wouldn't it make the most sense to add two of Ohio's most tradition rich teams who are also located in Stark County? I think you know where I'm going with this. If I had the option of adding two teams to the Federal League they would be Louisville and Massillon.
Let's start with Louisville. They were a a league member from 1968-1990 and have sense dominated and been kicked out of the NBC. They would be the smallest of all the Federal League schools and the jump would not be without its difficulties but in a year or two, they would once again be competitive in this league. Everyone in Stark County knows about their famous rivalry game with Hoover, who has the most league titles out of any of the member schools. For Louisville, if they were offered a membership spot, they'd be stupid not to take it. Trying to schedule teams as an independent is hard enough, now if you add winning and success on top of that, forget about it. In 2018 Louisville will play both Perry and Hoover so hopefully in the coming years they continue to fill their schedule with Federal League teams. Right now, I think Louisville would go .500 in league play. Perry, McKinley, GlenOak and Jackson are playing some good football and beating them now would be difficult but not impossible. Green, Hoover and Lake are all teams that have been at the bottom of the league in the past few seasons and Louisville would have a pretty good shot at beating any of them. To me, if I'm school officials and the AD, I am begging the league commissioner for a spot. It makes too much and it would bring a great competitive balance to the league.
As for Massillon, this is an uphill battle for them because the last time this issue came up, Jackson, Hoover and Lake all said no to them joining the league, which is stupid. Massillon has one of the largest fan bases in the state and not to mention, one of the nicest stadiums in Ohio. To add them to the league would bring the Federal League up to par with some of the Catholic conferences in Ohio. With that being said, Massillon joining the league would not mean an instant league title for them. Last year, Perry and Jackson both would have beaten Massillon soundly. I might be biased toward the Panthers but anyone who saw their playoff game against Iggy could make a strong argument that they would have been playing for a title in D-II. Adding these two teams would eliminate needless non-conference scheduling to a certain extent and guarantee every team of a great, hard-nosed game each Friday. For years I could never understand why the league never fought to get Massillon in. Adding them would be a huge bonus for the league, same goes for Louisville. Louisville needs to realize that beating up on sisters of the poor every Friday night does not prepare you for the post season. We saw this in 2013 when the Leopards when 10-0 and lost a home playoff game to Aurora. League officials and member schools who previously voted no, you need to rethink your stance on this issue because both of these teams would be great additions to the league.
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  #2  
Old 01-31-18, 02:34 AM
Ts1960 Ts1960 is offline
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Lmao once you said Perry and Jackson would have beat Massillon soundly last year you lost any credibility you might have had.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-18, 05:52 AM
sam the butcher sam the butcher is offline
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This should be fun.
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  #4  
Old 01-31-18, 09:22 AM
BIG ED BIG ED is offline
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How soon till this gets locked? Sigh......
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  #5  
Old 01-31-18, 09:37 AM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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  #6  
Old 01-31-18, 09:49 AM
starkfb starkfb is offline
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Does anybody really think this guy is a Perry fan ??? lol
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  #7  
Old 01-31-18, 10:32 AM
COACH_XYZ&12345 COACH_XYZ&12345 is offline
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Staunch former inside Louisville contributor and now just a retired old fan. I stopped reading into the 2nd paragraph. Enough said.
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  #8  
Old 01-31-18, 10:36 AM
Raymo Raymo is offline
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Go gettum TigerTown....BAM!
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  #9  
Old 01-31-18, 10:43 AM
y2h y2h is offline
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They should be in the league. The problem is Massillon believes the league is below them and Louisville believes it is too far above them .
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Old 01-31-18, 10:53 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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His main point is right though. Massillon and Louisville would be the 2 best options IF the Fed wanted to expand. Granted that is asking a lot of Louisville. Massillon would "occasionally" or more consistently contend for a league title, not sure how Louisville could given their size. Nice football program though, and overall. I would like to play them too.
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  #11  
Old 01-31-18, 10:57 AM
TigerPaw TigerPaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
They should be in the league. The problem is Massillon believes the league is below them and Louisville believes it is too far above them .
Actually the problem is Massillon has requested and formally applied numerous times, but to date have been rejected. Is what it is why spin it?
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  #12  
Old 01-31-18, 11:10 AM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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and for the record

I think Louisville has added Perry, Lake, Green, and Massillon to their schedule along with Hoover.

Thats almost the entire league save the D1s
If you go over the MCK website you have some cronies arguing about there needing a change so they don't have so many D2s on the schedule.

Earlier in a different thread I had this suggestion to wrap up several issues in the area.

Federal League - GO, Jax, McK, Mass, Perry, Hoover
Senate League - Louisville, Lake, Dover, New Philly, Green, Canton Central

5 league games, no crossovers however the ability for each school to schedule 5 games as they like

Basketball everyone plays everyone once.

makes too much sense - translation - never will happen
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  #13  
Old 01-31-18, 11:23 AM
Irish60 Irish60 is offline
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Originally Posted by sam the butcher View Post
This should be fun.
Not to mention even-tempered and unbiased!
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  #14  
Old 01-31-18, 01:20 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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We've been here before. Jackson and Hoover (and you say Lake as well) don't want Massillon. Rumor had it I think GlenOak and somebody else (McKinley?) didn't want Louisville, so the application was withdrawn. 7 teams is a perfect number -- and I don't think Green would leave even if they ended up as a perennial basement dweller because of all the savings they are getting in transportation costs.

I still would like to see Massillon in, although their competitive balance number is eye-popping this year. That said, even if you add Massillon and Louisville the Fed would be nowhere near the level of a Catholic school league. Maybe (maybe) 10-15 years ago. I love Stark County football but our record against state powers lately isn't just bad, it's virtually non-competitive.
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  #15  
Old 01-31-18, 01:55 PM
bass10 bass10 is offline
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Why would you say Green is the basement dweller, they beat Glenoak and Lake last year, near the bottom (in football only) yes but starting slowly to figure out the Fed.
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  #16  
Old 01-31-18, 02:01 PM
Football 101 Football 101 is offline
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Green is progressively getting stronger

Look at the program over the last 25 years and the district as a whole - changing and growing - they are definitely not a basement dweller
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  #17  
Old 01-31-18, 03:18 PM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass10 View Post
Why would you say Green is the basement dweller, they beat Glenoak and Lake last year, near the bottom (in football only) yes but starting slowly to figure out the Fed.
Didn't mean that to sound too harsh. But still, Green has only two winning seasons in the last ten years (both .600 and both before they were in the Fed). They have played (by far) the easiest schedule out of everyone, both before and after they entered the Fed. 2017 Lake and GlenOak were a combined 4-16, although I concede that GlenOak was better than their record indicated. They suffered blowout losses to three teams and a two touchdown loss to another. They have not been to the playoffs in 13 years. If there has been progress in the program, it hasn't been on paper because in the W/L department they've been going backwards since Elden McVicker left.

That said, Green was pretty good in the late 90s/early 00s, even going to the state semi-finals in 2001 and barely losing to the eventual D2 state champion (the Yappi wiki only shows their program history back to the late 90s -- any Green historians on here?). Every program has its ups and downs, Green has just been down far longer than anyone else in the Fed and I still don't think they've yet shown that they can compete. Not sure how many return for next year but hopefully they can build on some decent defensive efforts last year (particularly against Highland) and turn the corner. Next year's Fed looks wide open.
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  #18  
Old 01-31-18, 06:57 PM
starkfb starkfb is offline
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The league is fine EXACTLY as it it now. If pee wee teams can travel so can high school teams . IF you make the playoffs you will HAVE to travel.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-18, 07:39 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starkfb View Post
The league is fine EXACTLY as it it now.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-18, 08:24 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson03 View Post
That said, Green was pretty good in the late 90s/early 00s, even going to the state semi-finals in 2001 and barely losing to the eventual D2 state champion (the Yappi wiki only shows their program history back to the late 90s -- any Green historians on here?). .
I remember that 01 Green team. Amazing qb and lockdown defense. We lost to them 7-6 and got bounced in week 11 by Waterson so we went to their playoff games, they were a blast to watch.

Green and Lake would be better served if the Fed went back to a split league like it was through the 80s. They don't have the horses to play deeper bigger faster teams every week.
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  #21  
Old 01-31-18, 08:33 PM
Maxie Maxie is offline
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Originally Posted by starkfb View Post
The league is fine EXACTLY as it it now. If pee wee teams can travel so can high school teams . IF you make the playoffs you will HAVE to travel.

I agree. Your league is EXACTLY perfect.
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  #22  
Old 01-31-18, 08:48 PM
BHSspartans13 BHSspartans13 is offline
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Fed is fine as is, certainly enjoyed Boardman's time in the league but its hard to have a league as competitive and well-rounded as is with all the schools in such a narrow geographic range.

Definitely have been interested in some of the enrollment figures, Green doesn't seem to be growing as quickly as many on here have said, and Lake seems like it isn't growing much at all. I remember when the 2013 figures came out, I figured Lake would have passed Boardman by the next cycle but it hasn't happened.

With regard to a split league, I don't think its necessary. As long as it's Jackson being the runaway leader in enrollment (and seemingly the only one gaining students) it probably won't be an issue competitively. And let's face it, Jackson always was the front-runner in the all-sports trophy. Only thing that's changed is probably Jackson runs away with it now, rather than Hoover either winning it or being right up there as it was when I remember being at Boardman (us or GO were usually close for 3rd).
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  #23  
Old 01-31-18, 09:26 PM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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Originally Posted by starkfb View Post
The league is fine EXACTLY as it it now.

Let's get our focus back on changing light bulbs.
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  #24  
Old 02-01-18, 01:00 AM
Ts1960 Ts1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post

With regard to a split league, I don't think its necessary. As long as it's Jackson being the runaway leader in enrollment (and seemingly the only one gaining students) it probably won't be an issue competitively. And let's face it, Jackson always was the front-runner in the all-sports trophy. Only thing that's changed is probably Jackson runs away with it now, rather than Hoover either winning it or being right up there as it was when I remember being at Boardman (us or GO were usually close for 3rd).
Mckinley has about 200 more boys then Jackson.
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  #25  
Old 02-01-18, 04:03 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHSspartans13 View Post
Definitely have been interested in some of the enrollment figures, Green doesn't seem to be growing as quickly as many on here have said, and Lake seems like it isn't growing much at all. I remember when the 2013 figures came out, I figured Lake would have passed Boardman by the next cycle but it hasn't happened.
Green, Hoover, GlenOak, and Perry pretty much never change. They have all been static in enrollment for quite some time. Hoover was vacillating between D1 and D2 back in the 90s, wouldn't be surprised to see them get bumped back up if they build some more houses in Greentown. Lake is actually declining -- everyone thought they'd be D1 by now but the housing developments never came. But like TS said, it's a misconception that Jackson is the runaway enrollment leader. McKinley is the biggest school by a decent amount and Jackson actually only has 43 more boys than GlenOak. Back when Boardman was in the league GlenOak outpaced Jackson by 100. If McKinley's enrollment decline has leveled out, Jackson might not catch them, since there aren't many developments being built anymore in the township.

The other subjects of the thread -- Louisville and Massillon -- are both in decline. Massillon is hemmed in by a bad set of district boundaries and I think Louisville is a bit like Lake where they are too far from the city to get development.
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Old 02-01-18, 10:40 PM
MATCAT67 MATCAT67 is offline
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Perry would have easily been in the D2 final game. That's just better coaching than what Massillon has, not a whole lot to argue on that point. Massillon was very young this year and I'm sure next year they will be a force, but Jackson's passing attack would have buried Massillon.
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  #27  
Old 02-01-18, 10:44 PM
Ts1960 Ts1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by MATCAT67 View Post
Perry would have easily been in the D2 final game. That's just better coaching than what Massillon has, not a whole lot to argue on that point. Massillon was very young this year and I'm sure next year they will be a force, but Jackson's passing attack would have buried Massillon.
LMAO, no sense in even giving much of a response to this idiot.
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  #28  
Old 02-01-18, 10:45 PM
MATCAT67 MATCAT67 is offline
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Originally Posted by starkfb View Post
The league is fine EXACTLY as it it now. If pee wee teams can travel so can high school teams . IF you make the playoffs you will HAVE to travel.
The league is a great league as it is now, but why the complacency? At the very least, adding just Massillon would bring in more money and make the league tougher as a whole. Massillon has, on numerous occasions, applied and been denied by the league. It makes no sense to me that some member schools are so reluctant to let them in. Louisville is a bit of a stretch because they are smaller, but like I said before, there are teams that they could compete with. I guess we can have a more serious discussion if Louisville beats Perry and Hoover this upcoming season, but to just dismiss the idea of expansion because the FED is "fine" the way it is, is cowardly. People are afraid of what they can't understand.
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  #29  
Old 02-02-18, 12:08 AM
starkfb starkfb is offline
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Originally Posted by MATCAT67 View Post
The league is a great league as it is now, but why the complacency? At the very least, adding just Massillon would bring in more money and make the league tougher as a whole. Massillon has, on numerous occasions, applied and been denied by the league. It makes no sense to me that some member schools are so reluctant to let them in. Louisville is a bit of a stretch because they are smaller, but like I said before, there are teams that they could compete with. I guess we can have a more serious discussion if Louisville beats Perry and Hoover this upcoming season, but to just dismiss the idea of expansion because the FED is "fine" the way it is, is cowardly. People are afraid of what they can't understand.
I knew you were a Massillon fan even before you wrote this. I wish all well but every time Perry would play them we lose players. When we started winning again some did come back. You seem to now disregard Louisville but you forget that Hoover , Lake and Perry (once again ) is D2. Green is a smaller D1 I believe. As far as money ,as you should know, Perry is doing fine financially .
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  #30  
Old 02-02-18, 01:10 AM
jackson03 jackson03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MATCAT67 View Post
Massillon has, on numerous occasions, applied and been denied by the league. It makes no sense to me that some member schools are so reluctant to let them in.
I want Massillon in. But that Competitive Balance number is gnarly. There's just no way it's gonna fly with the Jackson AD and probably Hoover as well. I don't really blame them to be honest. BUT -- the status quo won't do. The gate would be worth it and the Fed crowds as they are start to get weak come October and cold weather.

It is a little bit of a paradoxical choice for the Fed schools (Jax, Perry, and NCH in particular) -- refuse to play Massillon out of principle, but then nothing will change. The past five years there has been a lot of parity. A lot of missed chances to beat the evil Tigers. And if they had done that, and there was all that excitement in the league, then maybe fewer players would think they needed to go to Massillon to excel athletically. Massillon will probably be pretty solid the next two years though so it may harden the position of some Fed schools against having them join.

I still find it interesting that Jackson has a hard ban against Massillon in any sport for decades and had a hard ban against Central too. That's a little unusual for a high school. Wakefield is a little bit that way too -- what did he say this year? Walsh or somebody is going off the schedule because they are cheaters?
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