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  #1  
Old 03-11-19, 01:16 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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State Tournament Attendance Up

After hitting an all-time modern era (Schott Arena) low in 2018 the numbers have went up slightly in 2019. But even though overall attendance was up this year the Session 5 finals attendance was at an all time modern era (Schott Arena) low this year.

Overall Attendance
2019: 54,797
2018: 53,401 (Schott all time low)

Finals Attendance

2019: 12,195 (Schott all time low)
2018: 12,271

Attendance Records
All-Session: 75,582 (2003)
Finals: 16,994 (2003)

Last edited by chidy; 03-11-19 at 01:30 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-11-19, 01:23 PM
speedthatkills speedthatkills is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
After hitting an all-time low in 2018 the numbers have went up slightly in 2019. of to . But even though overall attendance was up this year the Session 5 finals attendance was at an all time low this year.

Overall Attendance
2019: 54,797
2018: 53,401

Finals Attendance
2019: 12,271
2018: 12,195
Dumb question, but if this years finals was an all time low, how is it higher than previous year?
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  #3  
Old 03-11-19, 01:31 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by speedthatkills View Post
Dumb question, but if this years finals was an all time low, how is it higher than previous year?
Editing mistake. Posted before I fixed a few things
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  #4  
Old 03-11-19, 01:50 PM
NCwrestlingmom NCwrestlingmom is offline
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I would like to suggest they change the format. It is a long, drawn out tournament for everyone. It also is unfair to the heavier weights because people start to clear out after the middle weights wrestle because they do four weight classes then do awards. It also makes it expensive because for schools far away it is another night in a hotel because you are not done wrestling until 10:30 or so.
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  #5  
Old 03-11-19, 02:03 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by NCwrestlingmom View Post
I would like to suggest they change the format. It is a long, drawn out tournament for everyone. It also is unfair to the heavier weights because people start to clear out after the middle weights wrestle because they do four weight classes then do awards. It also makes it expensive because for schools far away it is another night in a hotel because you are not done wrestling until 10:30 or so.
What would your suggestions be to improve it? If you wait to do awards until the end a majority of the teams would have to wait around anyways. I'm not opposed to waiting to do all awards until the end but that won't help your hotel situation.

I would like to see them pick a marquee matchup and have that match last, but run all the matches then do all the awards at the end. The parents/fans that want to take pictures can do so at that time.

A possible reason for splitting the awards up is if they wait until the end you will have everyone trying to cramp into the SW exit warmup area to take pictures which could be a nightmare. You could potentially let people on the arena floor but then you would need to clear the mats to do Team trophy presentations.

I'm not sure what the answer is to speed it up and make sure everything else runs logistically smooth.

I know that someone has been running the tournament for a long time and they like the way they do it so I'm not sure we will see drastic changes anytime soon.
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  #6  
Old 03-11-19, 02:07 PM
CincyWrestler CincyWrestler is offline
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Finals attendance will probably start to be on the decline but that's not a terrible thing. With the addition of the live stream, which I thought was awesome, in-person attendance will go down but overall viewership will go up. It's a good thing to have more people watch the finals by whatever means suits them.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-19, 02:12 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by CincyWrestler View Post
Finals attendance will probably start to be on the decline but that's not a terrible thing. With the addition of the live stream, which I thought was awesome, in-person attendance will go down but overall viewership will go up. It's a good thing to have more people watch the finals by whatever means suits them.
I'd be interested to see the # of purchases there were for the live stream. I know a former Elyria Runner-Up who once beat Alan Fried was cheering the boys on from Germany watching on the live stream. Anyone want to take a stab at the name?

What was the cost $9.99?
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  #8  
Old 03-11-19, 02:29 PM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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the finals took

5 hours yea I love wrestling but sitting in those seats and watching awards for 2 hours and not wrestling I will pass.
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  #9  
Old 03-11-19, 02:30 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chidy View Post
I'd be interested to see the # of purchases there were for the live stream. I know a former Elyria Runner-Up who once beat Alan Fried was cheering the boys on from Germany watching on the live stream. Anyone want to take a stab at the name?

What was the cost $9.99?
Going strictly from memory (I did not look it up), Shamile Pattie?
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  #10  
Old 03-11-19, 02:37 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
Going strictly from memory (I did not look it up), Shamile Pattie?
Ding Ding. We have a winner.

Shjamil Pattie beat Fried in the District finals his Junior year (Anyone know the score? I don't) and then lost to Fried in the State Finals 2-1 in OT a week later. Rumor is that it was a penalty point on an accidental singlet grab but I've never seen video to confirm or deny that the singlet pull occurred. Cable 9 have the video? I'd love to see it

The next season Shjamil was undefeated and had won the MIT when during Christmas break his family's house burned down and he had to go live with his extended family in Michigan and never wrestled a match again. Fried has mentioned in some of his interviews that one of his toughest opponents ever on any level was Pattie.

He's doing very well now working as a civilian for the US military in Germany.
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  #11  
Old 03-11-19, 02:56 PM
Donkability Donkability is offline
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Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Ding Ding. We have a winner.

Shjamil Pattie beat Fried in the District finals his Junior year (Anyone know the score? I don't) and then lost to Fried in the State Finals 2-1 in OT a week later. Rumor is that it was a penalty point on an accidental singlet grab but I've never seen video to confirm or deny that the singlet pull occurred. Cable 9 have the video? I'd love to see it

The next season Shjamil was undefeated and had won the MIT when during Christmas break his family's house burned down and he had to go live with his extended family in Michigan and never wrestled a match again. Fried has mentioned in some of his interviews that one of his toughest opponents ever on any level was Pattie.

He's doing very well now working as a civilian for the US military in Germany.
good share love gems like this!
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  #12  
Old 03-11-19, 03:45 PM
cosh wrestling dad cosh wrestling dad is offline
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Any chance low numbers simply due to NCAA D2 college going on in Cleveland?
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  #13  
Old 03-11-19, 03:53 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Absolutely no chance. I was working a table at the D2's and everyone there was a fan of the various teams. In fact I would say that D2 attendance was down due to the tournament in Columbus.
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  #14  
Old 03-11-19, 04:40 PM
NCwrestlingmom NCwrestlingmom is offline
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Well, they could leave the format as is and start earlier instead of leaving the arena empty for a few hours. Even starting at 4pm could have gotten them done an hour or so sooner.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-19, 05:04 PM
Pin2Win!! Pin2Win!! is offline
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Do all the divisions have to be there at same time? Would make any sense to split the divisions up..into say ....2 days like sectionals and distticts? As a parent of an upper weight, i had said same thing to friend, the crowd is all gone by the time we wrestle.

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  #16  
Old 03-11-19, 05:27 PM
eliwes eliwes is offline
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Originally Posted by NCwrestlingmom View Post
Well, they could leave the format as is and start earlier instead of leaving the arena empty for a few hours. Even starting at 4pm could have gotten them done an hour or so sooner.
That's too logical. Maybe they get more people in the strean.i know im leaving after sat am session to watch strean.
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  #17  
Old 03-12-19, 01:33 PM
WrestlingGuru WrestlingGuru is offline
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Besides the fact that we could easily cut an entire day out of this tournament... there is definitely too long of a break between sessions on Friday and Saturday. We could have much more wrestling completed in a much shorter amount of time. If we keep Thursday, and cut out the break between sessions on Friday, you could easily complete all of the consolation matches leading up until placement. Friday night, 7/8 place matches should be wrestled. There should only be one session on Friday, and one session on Saturday as well. Saturday's session starting at 10am. Three mat setup on the floor. All divisions 5/6 place matches run, followed by all divisions 3/4 place matches. Then, after a short intermission to prepare for the finals show, the finals run in their normal setup. They will start much earlier, and the other placement matches will have much more energy. More fans will stay in the building because it will be completed much earlier, and they don't have to leave, go kill time (probably spending more money), then pay to get back in. Just bump up the price for each session $5 a ticket, which would make up the money for one session lost, and the higher attendance to a more fan friendly format would help cover the lost admission to the other session. Regardless, it would be a better show. Less excitement drained from the other placement matches, and more energy as well for the finals as more fans will still be in the building. Even the 7/8 place matches on Friday night would have a better feel, as they all run together and have their own time in the spotlight.

When you get kicked out on Saturday after a majority of people's family and friends are done wrestling, especially with streaming video now available, there isn't exactly a ton of incentive to come back again Saturday night.
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  #18  
Old 03-12-19, 01:52 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Originally Posted by WrestlingGuru View Post
Besides the fact that we could easily cut an entire day out of this tournament... there is definitely too long of a break between sessions on Friday and Saturday. We could have much more wrestling completed in a much shorter amount of time. If we keep Thursday, and cut out the break between sessions on Friday, you could easily complete all of the consolation matches leading up until placement. Friday night, 7/8 place matches should be wrestled. There should only be one session on Friday, and one session on Saturday as well. Saturday's session starting at 10am. Three mat setup on the floor. All divisions 5/6 place matches run, followed by all divisions 3/4 place matches. Then, after a short intermission to prepare for the finals show, the finals run in their normal setup. They will start much earlier, and the other placement matches will have much more energy. More fans will stay in the building because it will be completed much earlier, and they don't have to leave, go kill time (probably spending more money), then pay to get back in. Just bump up the price for each session $5 a ticket, which would make up the money for one session lost, and the higher attendance to a more fan friendly format would help cover the lost admission to the other session. Regardless, it would be a better show. Less excitement drained from the other placement matches, and more energy as well for the finals as more fans will still be in the building. Even the 7/8 place matches on Friday night would have a better feel, as they all run together and have their own time in the spotlight.

When you get kicked out on Saturday after a majority of people's family and friends are done wrestling, especially with streaming video now available, there isn't exactly a ton of incentive to come back again Saturday night.
Sounds great on paper but I can tell you never had to work a tournament like this as either a table worker or as an official.
Having been there, I can tell you with certainty that those are 3 VERY hard days. Keeping focused is not easy and you want to make the days longer. As a fan, you get to move around and come or go as you choose. For the folks actually working, it is not so easy.
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  #19  
Old 03-12-19, 02:11 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by WrestlingGuru View Post
Besides the fact that we could easily cut an entire day out of this tournament... there is definitely too long of a break between sessions on Friday and Saturday. We could have much more wrestling completed in a much shorter amount of time. If we keep Thursday, and cut out the break between sessions on Friday, you could easily complete all of the consolation matches leading up until placement. Friday night, 7/8 place matches should be wrestled. There should only be one session on Friday, and one session on Saturday as well. Saturday's session starting at 10am. Three mat setup on the floor. All divisions 5/6 place matches run, followed by all divisions 3/4 place matches. Then, after a short intermission to prepare for the finals show, the finals run in their normal setup. They will start much earlier, and the other placement matches will have much more energy. More fans will stay in the building because it will be completed much earlier, and they don't have to leave, go kill time (probably spending more money), then pay to get back in. Just bump up the price for each session $5 a ticket, which would make up the money for one session lost, and the higher attendance to a more fan friendly format would help cover the lost admission to the other session. Regardless, it would be a better show. Less excitement drained from the other placement matches, and more energy as well for the finals as more fans will still be in the building. Even the 7/8 place matches on Friday night would have a better feel, as they all run together and have their own time in the spotlight.

When you get kicked out on Saturday after a majority of people's family and friends are done wrestling, especially with streaming video now available, there isn't exactly a ton of incentive to come back again Saturday night.
This sounds horrible for me as a coach I can only imagine the workers making the day longer.

I honestly think that the set up of sessions etc for the most part are great.
I like the fact that my team can leave the arena, go back to the hotel, get something to eat and then come back to the arena for the next session and not have to feel rushed.

Do you realize how late teams would be there if you ran the consi-semis after the semis/consi-quarter? You're looking at 11 or 12

The only change I would make is to the finals. Wrestle 7 weight classes. Take a 20 min break for workers and so fans can use restroom and go to concessions then run the next 7 weight classes. Do all awards at the end of wrestling on the arena floor.

D1 at one end, D2 in middle, D3 at other end. Clear mats and then do team trophy presentations.

Weights don't have to be in sequential order and save Marquee matchup for the end. Or if there is more than 1 marquee matchup spread them out beginning, middle, & end
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Old 03-12-19, 03:14 PM
Binuova Binuova is offline
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The only thing I would change to make attendance increase would be to have a Bucksman vs Borofan prime time match right after the heavy weights.
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  #21  
Old 03-12-19, 03:26 PM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Originally Posted by Binuova View Post
The only thing I would change to make attendance increase would be to have a Bucksman vs Borofan prime time match right after the heavy weights.
Better start the finals at 145 or the stands will be empty by HVY.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-19, 04:16 PM
WrestlingGuru WrestlingGuru is offline
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Originally Posted by chidy View Post
This sounds horrible for me as a coach I can only imagine the workers making the day longer.

I honestly think that the set up of sessions etc for the most part are great.
I like the fact that my team can leave the arena, go back to the hotel, get something to eat and then come back to the arena for the next session and not have to feel rushed.

Do you realize how late teams would be there if you ran the consi-semis after the semis/consi-quarter? You're looking at 11 or 12

The only change I would make is to the finals. Wrestle 7 weight classes. Take a 20 min break for workers and so fans can use restroom and go to concessions then run the next 7 weight classes. Do all awards at the end of wrestling on the arena floor.

D1 at one end, D2 in middle, D3 at other end. Clear mats and then do team trophy presentations.

Weights don't have to be in sequential order and save Marquee matchup for the end. Or if there is more than 1 marquee matchup spread them out beginning, middle, & end
You wouldn't be there that late if there weren't a few hours in between sessions. Nobody needs that long of a break. You would actually finish up earlier.

Also, I didn't say there wouldn't be intermissions so officials, coaches, and fans could get a break. Besides, on the first day and a half, the divisions aren't even wrestling at the same time. It isn't as if the wrestlers and coaches are suffering for downtime. Besides it isn't as if most teams have that many kids to worry about come Friday night and Saturday.

There is zero need to make this a 5 session tournament. The same amount of wrestling (per division) is accomplished at districts every year in almost half the time.

Btw, I have wrestled, coached, and worked tournaments. I don't even think there is a major problem with the format that they currently use. I was just responding to the thread topic with my own thoughts on how it could be made more fan friendly for attendance. If you think that fans enjoy being kicked out for hours, having to shuttle or take the long walk to their vehicles, kill time for hours, drive back, pay for parking again (depending on where you park), shuttle or take another long walk to the arena... Stand in line again... Etc... There really isn't any need for it. At the very least, people can already choose if they want to leave or not while different divisions are wrestling on Friday. Also, Thursday isn't along day, and Saturday would only be three mats.

I'm sure we can work out a decent break schedule for workers and officials.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-19, 04:45 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Originally Posted by WrestlingGuru View Post
You wouldn't be there that late if there weren't a few hours in between sessions. Nobody needs that long of a break. You would actually finish up earlier.

Also, I didn't say there wouldn't be intermissions so officials, coaches, and fans could get a break. Besides, on the first day and a half, the divisions aren't even wrestling at the same time. It isn't as if the wrestlers and coaches are suffering for downtime. Besides it isn't as if most teams have that many kids to worry about come Friday night and Saturday.

There is zero need to make this a 5 session tournament. The same amount of wrestling (per division) is accomplished at districts every year in almost half the time.

Btw, I have wrestled, coached, and worked tournaments. I don't even think there is a major problem with the format that they currently use. I was just responding to the thread topic with my own thoughts on how it could be made more fan friendly for attendance. If you think that fans enjoy being kicked out for hours, having to shuttle or take the long walk to their vehicles, kill time for hours, drive back, pay for parking again (depending on where you park), shuttle or take another long walk to the arena... Stand in line again... Etc... There really isn't any need for it. At the very least, people can already choose if they want to leave or not while different divisions are wrestling on Friday. Also, Thursday isn't along day, and Saturday would only be three mats.

I'm sure we can work out a decent break schedule for workers and officials.
Without getting really in-depth, there are so many things wrong with this plan that it is hard to know where to start.
First off, you say that Thursday is not a long day. Well, the wrestling alone is just over 6 hours. Then there is the matter of the weigh-ins prior to wrestling. There are NO breaks for workers and officials on Thursday. I hate to break it to you but, you are wrong.
A break at this level is not just 30 minutes. This is high pressure from beginning to end and serious time off to decompress is very important. Besides, all the workers have to have the to eat properly.
You talk about making it "fan friendly" but it is at the expense of the people who make the event happen. Fans can come late and/or leave early if they choose. Workers can not. The only way you ideas could work is if a lot more worker bees were brought in and that simply is not going to happen.
If I understand your idea correctly, every match up to the placement matches would be wrestled on Friday? That isn't even close to reality.
You compare the State Tournament with the District events but you don't even get that correct. The District meets are 16 man brackets on 4 (and sometimes 5) mats. The State Tournament is effectively a 48 man bracket on 10 mats. IOW, 3 times as many wrestlers on 2 1/2 as many mats. The math alone says it can't happen in 2 days.
I am all for ideas that improve the situation but they need to improve it for everyone.
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Old 03-12-19, 05:03 PM
Pin2Win!! Pin2Win!! is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
Without getting really in-depth, there are so many things wrong with this plan that it is hard to know where to start.

First off, you say that Thursday is not a long day. Well, the wrestling alone is just over 6 hours. Then there is the matter of the weigh-ins prior to wrestling. There are NO breaks for workers and officials on Thursday. I hate to break it to you but, you are wrong.

A break at this level is not just 30 minutes. This is high pressure from beginning to end and serious time off to decompress is very important. Besides, all the workers have to have the to eat properly.

You talk about making it "fan friendly" but it is at the expense of the people who make the event happen. Fans can come late and/or leave early if they choose. Workers can not. The only way you ideas could work is if a lot more worker bees were brought in and that simply is not going to happen.

If I understand your idea correctly, every match up to the placement matches would be wrestled on Friday? That isn't even close to reality.

You compare the State Tournament with the District events but you don't even get that correct. The District meets are 16 man brackets on 4 (and sometimes 5) mats. The State Tournament is effectively a 48 man bracket on 10 mats. IOW, 3 times as many wrestlers on 2 1/2 as many mats. The math alone says it can't happen in 2 days.

I am all for ideas that improve the situation but they need to improve it for everyone.
If the district commentvwas towards my comment, i merely meant separating the divisions so it would be like districts, just at state level. Clearly that would not be feasible if they were all combined. However, separating them would probably not allow for the pagentry associated with the state tourny.

Again.. I am just brain storming, throwing ideas out there. I had no issues with the Thurs ,Fri and sat morning sessions. The championships one seemed incredibly long to myself and my wrestler. Although that could be due to him not being in championship...or just cause it was end of a long weekend.

Overall, it seemed like it ran like a well-oiled machine and pretty much on time.

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Old 03-12-19, 05:04 PM
WrestlingGuru WrestlingGuru is offline
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I think that you are drastically over exaggerating how difficult it is to work tables and be an official in this tournament. I know a few of these guys. I submit though... We'll keep it the same.
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  #26  
Old 03-13-19, 02:41 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by WrestlingGuru View Post
I think that you are drastically over exaggerating how difficult it is to work tables and be an official in this tournament. I know a few of these guys. I submit though... We'll keep it the same.
Working the tables at a local tournament can be a bit stressful and tiresome, I can only imagine the high stakes/pressure of doing it at the State Tournament. I highly doubt these guys want to mess up and cost someone the match. Fatigue is real as a wrestler, coach, and table worker.

Fix the 1st finals if possible. I think the other 2 days are great the way it's run.

I'm sure some of the thought process behind the way we run our state tournament is to emulate the NCAA tournament which I think we can agree is a huge success as evidenced by how hot the demand for tickets has gotten & the increased ESPN coverage of the entire tournament.

The D1 NCAA tournament is 6 sessions with 33 man brackets. You have to take into account that the matches are 7 minutes on the front & backside and there are less pins/techs in NCAAs so matches are going longer. But in comparison I believe OHSAA does a great job essentially running a 48 man tournament in 5 sessions over 2.5 days.

The one area I believe has room for improvement is the length of the finals which takes 5+ hrs with awards. Not sure how NCAA handles the awards part. Do they do it all at the end?
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  #27  
Old 03-13-19, 03:22 PM
Lambeau Fields Lambeau Fields is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
Without getting really in-depth, there are so many things wrong with this plan that it is hard to know where to start.
So, what I think Jim was saying to you is:

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  #28  
Old 03-13-19, 03:35 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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As far as the NCAA D1 finals program goes, you have to remember there are only ten weight classes instead of the 14x3 (=42) at the state high school tournament.

I don't recall exactly how the NCAA tournament does its awards, but it's something to the effect of wrestle 125, 133 award 125 then awards after each weight. It also works well with the television broadcast.
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  #29  
Old 03-13-19, 03:45 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Originally Posted by Lambeau Fields View Post
So, what I think Jim was saying to you is:

Uh, not really.
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  #30  
Old 03-13-19, 04:48 PM
Ohio Blast Ohio Blast is offline
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Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
As far as the NCAA D1 finals program goes, you have to remember there are only ten weight classes instead of the 14x3 (=42) at the state high school tournament.

I don't recall exactly how the NCAA tournament does its awards, but it's something to the effect of wrestle 125, 133 award 125 then awards after each weight. It also works well with the television broadcast.
It is time everybody admits that X3 is an issue. Time to give the public what it wants and go to two divisions so you can run a state tournament that can be watched and followed. A 9 mat semi final and 3 mat final is ridiculous to follow as a casual fan more good wrestling is missed than is actually watched.

I hate the idea of a marquee match up format. I always feel like a hostage when that happens. If the best match up is at 106 I'll come early, if it's at 285 I'll stick around and watch.
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