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  #1  
Old 03-09-19, 08:51 PM
TBone 22 TBone 22 is offline
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State Tournament Officiating

The officials at this years state tournament were the most inconsistent I have ever seen. Undecisive, lost, too involved. The best referees in the state should be refereeing. Period! Not the current rotation, reward system that is in place. Too many unsure/bad/ no back point count calls were the direct cause of losses in this tournament.
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  #2  
Old 03-09-19, 10:54 PM
Mr. Red Mr. Red is offline
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I do hope that you have your officiating license or will be in a class to get one soon. Donít be satisfied with just complaining.


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  #3  
Old 03-09-19, 11:02 PM
CincyWrestler CincyWrestler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Red View Post
I do hope that you have your officiating license or will be in a class to get one soon. Donít be satisfied with just complaining.


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Here we go...
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  #4  
Old 03-09-19, 11:28 PM
Gamewrestler Gamewrestler is offline
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Worst I have ever seen in my years! These kids wrestle one way all year and then have to changed for the state tournament.
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  #5  
Old 03-10-19, 12:08 AM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is offline
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Cue the horse


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  #6  
Old 03-10-19, 12:11 AM
Mbelcher14 Mbelcher14 is offline
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How about you become an official and showcase your talent ! Better yet do enough in a match that a ref isn’t a decisive factor in a match !
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  #7  
Old 03-10-19, 12:29 AM
Crab Ride Crab Ride is offline
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I’ll take it a step further. Every table has officials, not some mom dad or clueless teenager working the table. I can’t tell you how many times I saw the wrong score, points awarded to the wrong wrestler, clock not starting for :30 - :45 seconds. And it’s not like there were a couple of guys at the table. Most had 6 or 7 and many times they were bs’ing with each other and not paying attention to the match. There is absolutely no excuse to have that many people there and no one noticing the clock didn’t start.
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  #8  
Old 03-10-19, 12:37 AM
CincyWrestler CincyWrestler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbelcher14 View Post
Better yet do enough in a match that a ref isnít a decisive factor in a match !
I hate this argument so much. Not saying I don't tell kids the same thing, but it's the state freaking tournament!!! Most kids very best at that level may only be 1 point better than the kid they're wrestling. So when an official decides you're stalling in the 3rd period just because you're winning, or makes an egregious error that may end up in a 1-2 swing, it's enough to change a match between 2 equally high caliber wrestlers. This is supposed the be a forum where we comment on what we witness among other things. Many people witnessed bad officiating this weekend. Do they have time to alter their lives to become an official, maybe. But is it too much to ask for somewhat consistent officiating. I myself feel like refs involve themselves in matches way too much and it's been a problem for years. Double stalling should be outlawed and any ref that calls it should be fined and publicly shamed! In order to change that I would have to become THE head official in the state of Ohio, that just seems like a lot of time and effort. I'd rather wait til somebody makes a Yappi post and just comment on that. Then get one person to agree with me so I feel I'm right and justified then go on with my life until next season.
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  #9  
Old 03-10-19, 01:56 AM
luv2wrestle luv2wrestle is offline
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I have problems with state refs not knowing what a merkle is and changing how itís supposed to be executed...most of all calling a stalemate when one is being run and costing points during a crucial match. I agree not happy with the officiating this year...I saw a lot of kids get robbed


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  #10  
Old 03-10-19, 06:43 AM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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Yes merkle.... saw a kid get 4 points stalling while trying to apply the move. A real matter for discussion would be what folks think of the new aggressive application of stalling enforcement this year. ?
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  #11  
Old 03-10-19, 07:18 AM
E.S. Furgeson E.S. Furgeson is offline
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Make sure you tell your kids how awful the officials were. Do it often. That way, after every loss they will have someone to blame other than themselves.



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  #12  
Old 03-10-19, 07:26 AM
luv2wrestle luv2wrestle is offline
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I always tell mine not to leave it in the refs hands but when they work a move that they do all the time and itís not scored itís frustrating


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  #13  
Old 03-10-19, 07:36 AM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.S. Furgeson View Post
Make sure you tell your kids how awful the officials were. Do it often. That way, after every loss they will have someone to blame other than themselves.



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How about being honest. When a refís mistake cost your kid a match you acknowledge it...when your kid loses and the ref is not a factor (great majority of the time) you do not let him/her use it as a excuse....sometimes you get screwed in life. There are times you can do something about it and times you canít. Asking that officials know the rules and common moves is not a stretch. So how about saving the get off my lawn moment for another time.


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  #14  
Old 03-10-19, 08:02 AM
Pantherontheporch Pantherontheporch is offline
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Don't know if this match is what anyone is talking about, but it seems appropriate for this thread:

https://www.dispatch.com/sports/2019...rwood-in-shock
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  #15  
Old 03-10-19, 08:37 AM
Donkability Donkability is offline
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Its bad, worse than ever, As much as I hate taking sides, Its the RULES not the REFS (in most cases). It could be fixed so easy its not even funny. Dont know why they make it so difficult, I promise every one involved it is not rocket science, its not hard to change, its a high school sport not a a national law. Such a simple few tweaks, act like you need majority in the house from nancy pelosi to fix things! The national high school wrestling group that makes rules needs to quit worrying about the other stuff like adding subtracting weights what the coaches do in the summer, hair and facial issues and all the other pathetic changes they talk about every year. Fix the darn stalling and inconsistent calls. I been saying this for twenty years now and still nothing but more judgement calls confusion and discretion's left up to the ref. Of course its gonna be bad you have hundreds of guys that are gonna interpret things differently. I could go on and on but all I am gonna get is take the spring class. Taking the spring class will not fix the confusion that is going on every week that has only been getting worse and worse and worse. There are some good refs out there that know wrestling that are confused in spots and this should never be a problem ever! All these things are creating is people wanting to quit or walk away cause they are sick of always being wrong even when they are right!

First and foremost implement a push out rule, this ends 80 percent of the BS period. Nothing irks me more than a dude getting pushed out only to call the pusher. If you really think the pusher or the kid backing the first 30 seconds of a match is stalling than you need to go buy some shoes and get your butt on the mats. This is the hardest sport in the world these kids aint stalling. Now it happens i know this and there are times it should be called, but never as much as they are calling it, never to decide a match! Its so inconsistent its not even funny at all levels. College is bad, high school is worse. If you have any hope for future quality refs than get it right. rant over
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  #16  
Old 03-10-19, 09:47 AM
MPhillips MPhillips is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wash.c.h.legend View Post
Cue the horse
My bad Legend. This thread almost got away.

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  #17  
Old 03-10-19, 09:50 AM
350zjk 350zjk is offline
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Double stalling should be outlawed and any ref that calls it should be fined and publicly shamed!


Where do you get off making a ridiculous statement like this? If both wrestlers commit a TV, unnecessary roughness, or USC at the same time do you pick one wrestler to penalize? Granted, double stalling is not a call I would make more than 3-4 times in a season, but there is a time and a place to send a message to both wrestlers that offense or "some" attempt at improvement is needed.
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  #18  
Old 03-10-19, 10:10 AM
CincyWrestler CincyWrestler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 350zjk View Post
Double stalling should be outlawed and any ref that calls it should be fined and publicly shamed!


Where do you get off making a ridiculous statement like this? If both wrestlers commit a TV, unnecessary roughness, or USC at the same time do you pick one wrestler to penalize? Granted, double stalling is not a call I would make more than 3-4 times in a season, but there is a time and a place to send a message to both wrestlers that offense or "some" attempt at improvement is needed.
This is me publicly shaming 350zjk!!! In order for 1 wrestler to be stalling the other wrestler needs to be attempting some sort of offense. The wrestling world doesn't need you to send a message to anybody. Just officiate the match and get out of the way. I always knew page 1, rule 1 of the Ohio officials book says GET INVOLVED. Shame on you!!!
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  #19  
Old 03-10-19, 10:28 AM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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I think the

merkle situation needs to be addressed one way or the other. I would like to see emphasized next year to make it clear how they want these guys to call the situation. I saw a kid get a merkle called two and did not have it clearly hooked it was still on the hip gave him 2 and they waived it off after the end of the 3rd period that sent it to overtime!
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  #20  
Old 03-10-19, 10:53 AM
cobrakai cobrakai is offline
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Former ref here.... yes I saw a ref blow a match and he gave 2 sympathy stall calls at the end to prove it
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  #21  
Old 03-10-19, 11:35 AM
dman dman is offline
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Donathan vs Andonian - unless I completely missed it Andonian had a reverse headlock rather than locking hands. Any other opinion on that call ?
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  #22  
Old 03-10-19, 11:47 AM
CoachMorgan CoachMorgan is online now
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I talked to Ray Anthony more this tournament than I have in the last 3-4 years.
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  #23  
Old 03-10-19, 11:56 AM
wash.c.h.legend wash.c.h.legend is offline
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State Tournament Officiating

I agree about the Merkle, it needs to be a point of emphasis for next year. Iím not sure all refs understood this at the state level over the weekend.

Recognition for the purpose of a takedown is what Iím referring to.

As far as stalling. This would be a judgement call for the ref. It certainly can be a great stalling lock if you are just holding on without using it to turn or working to change to a better position.


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  #24  
Old 03-10-19, 01:04 PM
Slim Pickens Slim Pickens is offline
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The match I saw.... kid attempting move in question witn some difficulty due to opponents size and strength.... but opponent wasn't resisting the attempts just standing there not moving and awarded stalling....( with gratuitous fan involvement). As well wrestlers on bottom clearly overpowered getting stall calls when top guy can't make the turn.
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  #25  
Old 03-10-19, 01:52 PM
FunkRoll FunkRoll is offline
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I think the edge of the mat stall calls had been decent throughout the regular season...some things that made you scratch your head but not awful. It seemed this weekend they tried to make it a point of emphasis and completely blew it and it was just inconsistent across the board.

We don’t need a push out rule. Simple fix...make it like college...guy with his back to the out of bounds needs to bust butt to stay in bounds out he gets hits. Some of the major issues we are having now are not the refs...but the people making the rules...they are not making the refs job any easier that’s for sure.
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  #26  
Old 03-10-19, 02:30 PM
LucMurphy134 LucMurphy134 is offline
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As a guy who wore the stripes for a few years, I know how difficult it is, and I try and to cut Refs slack where ever possible, but a few things that I saw over and over this weekend drive me crazy....

- Stalling should be called the same way in the first period as the third. The score and/or situation shouldn't dictate a stall call. 98% of the time, neutral and less than 15 seconds, the guy with the lead was hit with the obligatory stall call, a few times w/in 2 seconds after a whistle. Refs should recognize the difference between a wrestler avoiding action and a wrestler keeping position and defending attacks. You have 6 minutes to score, why reward the wrestler who waited until the last 13 seconds of the match to look busy?

- Bottom man hit for stalling when he's just getting hammered by a tough ride.. As I understand the rules, the defensive wrestler is not stalling when he's being overpowered. Saw many times top man with boots in, grinding a power half, and bottom man fighting it off, trying to clear boots and the bottom man gets dinged, while the top man is happy to look busy, and burn clock

-Not understanding the Merkle. Like it or not, near leg in, supporting parts on mat= control. Ask Nathan Tomesello. Also, Merkle is a pinning combo, saw a few times top man working a Merkle hit for stalling... I can see stalemate after it appears it's not going anywhere, but to call stalling is to not understand the position.

-Celebrations. DC getting hit with a team point for Shumate's backflip is freaking ridiculous. Is it in the rule book that tossing your head gear up like a baseball and hitting it out of the park is OK, but a backflip is not? 13 thousand fans loved it, but one cranky old Ref wasn't having it.....
As long as the kids aren't taunting their opponents or the crowd and are being respectful...let them enjoy their moment!
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  #27  
Old 03-10-19, 02:32 PM
cobrakai cobrakai is offline
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Bout 799 was blasphemy
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  #28  
Old 03-10-19, 02:32 PM
StillNeutral StillNeutral is offline
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im still going through some matches that I can view right now, as fa as the one commenting on the merkle, there are two things primary that im looking for before I call it, what specifically is your complaint with the merkle, and it seems to be the no calls on them
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  #29  
Old 03-10-19, 02:39 PM
miketyson miketyson is offline
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Ill say it

time and time again a pushout rule will only make for garbage wrestling and more confusion.
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  #30  
Old 03-10-19, 02:51 PM
StillNeutral StillNeutral is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyWrestler View Post
I hate this argument so much. Not saying I don't tell kids the same thing, but it's the state freaking tournament!!! Most kids very best at that level may only be 1 point better than the kid they're wrestling. So when an official decides you're stalling in the 3rd period just because you're winning, or makes an egregious error that may end up in a 1-2 swing, it's enough to change a match between 2 equally high caliber wrestlers. This is supposed the be a forum where we comment on what we witness among other things. Many people witnessed bad officiating this weekend. Do they have time to alter their lives to become an official, maybe. But is it too much to ask for somewhat consistent officiating. I myself feel like refs involve themselves in matches way too much and it's been a problem for years. Double stalling should be outlawed and any ref that calls it should be fined and publicly shamed! In order to change that I would have to become THE head official in the state of Ohio, that just seems like a lot of time and effort. I'd rather wait til somebody makes a Yappi post and just comment on that. Then get one person to agree with me so I feel I'm right and justified then go on with my life until next season.
If I could provide a scenario, lets say 2 195lb are wrestling and for the first 1:50 there has been no shots maybe just a lot of Russian ties and crappy pommeling, and lets say ive verbaly warned them . That's almost 2 minutes of no action or shots why wouldn't both be stalling in this scenario, wouldn't a double stall call be warranted, even if I didn't call both at the same time, I would be bringing the other fist up when im bringing the other one down. Can I ask why you are against the double stall and your basis as to why it shouldn't be a rule?
I will agree sometimes a ref calls can drastically swing the momentum of a match
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