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  #31  
Old 03-13-19, 05:06 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
As far as the NCAA D1 finals program goes, you have to remember there are only ten weight classes instead of the 14x3 (=42) at the state high school tournament.

I don't recall exactly how the NCAA tournament does its awards, but it's something to the effect of wrestle 125, 133 award 125 then awards after each weight. It also works well with the television broadcast.
Very good point Josh. I didn't think about the fact that there only 10 weights.

If you were in charge of the tournament how would you change it to make it better? You have a lot of great ideas and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts
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  #32  
Old 03-13-19, 05:14 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by bucksman View Post
As far as the NCAA D1 finals program goes, you have to remember there are only ten weight classes instead of the 14x3 (=42) at the state high school tournament.

I don't recall exactly how the NCAA tournament does its awards, but it's something to the effect of wrestle 125, 133 award 125 then awards after each weight. It also works well with the television broadcast.
Total # of wrestlers for NCAA D1: 33 x 10= 330
Total # of wrestlers for OHSAA: 14 x 3 x 16=672

A previous post mentions making wrestling only 2 divisions which would bring the # down to 448.

Would this make the tournament shorter and more viewer friendly probably but on the other side of that it's going to cut into OHSAA's bottom line because less people are going to attend and it isn't going to help the sport grow in Ohio. This will limit opportunities for wrestlers on many levels. So I hope that never happens. Once it's gone your're not getting it back
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  #33  
Old 03-13-19, 09:18 PM
whippet175 whippet175 is offline
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I don't have any complaints about Thursday or Friday. Saturday is another story. I'm a diehard, I go every year. If you're going to make live streaming available, that may have been my last time enduring a 5 hour finals session. Getting to my car at 10:30 for a 2.5 hour drive home is ridiculous when I can sit in a comfortable chair and watch the same event in my home. Why can't the finals start at 2 hours earlier? I can't believe I'm the only one feeling this way. I'll bet the numbers for the final session continue to drop.
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  #34  
Old 03-13-19, 09:36 PM
Jim Behrens Jim Behrens is offline
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Originally Posted by whippet175 View Post
I don't have any complaints about Thursday or Friday. Saturday is another story. I'm a diehard, I go every year. If you're going to make live streaming available, that may have been my last time enduring a 5 hour finals session. Getting to my car at 10:30 for a 2.5 hour drive home is ridiculous when I can sit in a comfortable chair and watch the same event in my home. Why can't the finals start at 2 hours earlier? I can't believe I'm the only one feeling this way. I'll bet the numbers for the final session continue to drop.
I broached this idea last night and most people thought it was worth looking at.
My question is, what is gained from the platform used for the Championship Finals? Sure its looks cool but the amount of time required to set it up delays any possibility of starting sooner. It has to be at least a two hour exercise and maybe more. Eliminate the building a platform and you could start two (or more) hours earlier and, obviously, get out two hours earlier.
Like I said, it is pretty cool but at what expense? A champion is a champion whether on the floor or on a platform.
BTW, this does nothing to cut time from the marathon 5 hour session.
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  #35  
Old 03-13-19, 09:48 PM
whippet175 whippet175 is offline
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It doesn't shorten the marathon finals session, but it does get me home 2 hours earlier without the mandatory stop to caffeine up at the halfway point.
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  #36  
Old 03-14-19, 06:58 AM
tkdn_wizard tkdn_wizard is offline
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Any discussion/thoughts of having awards JUST in the warm-up gym?
Instead of the current format of having it on the Schott floor and then AGAIN in the warm up gym.

I realize this takes away from the kids seeing their face and name on the big board, and the recognition in front of everyone, but if we just had awards in the warm up gym and let the finals continue uninterrupted that would certainly help cut the time down. It's not a perfect system, but if everyone is that upset about the time duration something has to give.

Many big tournaments do this, Maumee Bay, GMVWA. They announce for awards, those who want pics go and take pictures, and come back as wrestling is still continuing.

It seems like a simple fix to me. If you don't like or prefer this idea for the state tournament because it takes away from the kids getting recognized on the big board, then I guess cutting the time down isn't "that important" to you. Parents can get their kids pictures in the warm up gym. If you do every 2 weights and time it out right I don't think it would get too crowded in there.
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  #37  
Old 03-14-19, 07:29 AM
TequilaMockingbird TequilaMockingbird is offline
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Too drawn out. Don't tell me they can't at least start the finals 45 minutes to an hour earlier than they do. People are exhausted from 3 days of tournament, no wonder they don't want to stick around through such a drawn out affair.
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  #38  
Old 03-14-19, 07:51 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdn_wizard View Post
I realize this takes away from the kids seeing their face and name on the big board, and the recognition in front of everyone.
That's what this is about. The kids. Kids getting the credit they deserve. That's why the stage is put up. The videos. The fireworks. Everything is done to make this an unforgettable experience FOR THE KIDS! I don't want to take anything away from the kids.

We can tweak things that doesn't take away from the kids, but makes it more fan friendly. Those are the things that should be considered.
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  #39  
Old 03-14-19, 08:11 AM
Pin2Win!! Pin2Win!! is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
That's what this is about. The kids. Kids getting the credit they deserve. That's why the stage is put up. The videos. The fireworks. Everything is done to make this an unforgettable experience FOR THE KIDS! I don't want to take anything away from the kids.



We can tweak things that doesn't take away from the kids, but makes it more fan friendly. Those are the things that should be considered.
Agree 100%. And parents enjoy it too

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  #40  
Old 03-15-19, 09:32 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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It looks like state tournament attendance decline isn't just an Ohio problem. PA has also seen a drop of 20,000+ fans

https://www.poconorecord.com/news/20...tling-be-saved
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  #41  
Old 03-15-19, 10:31 AM
phopl4 phopl4 is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
That's what this is about. The kids. Kids getting the credit they deserve. That's why the stage is put up. The videos. The fireworks. Everything is done to make this an unforgettable experience FOR THE KIDS! I don't want to take anything away from the kids.

We can tweak things that doesn't take away from the kids, but makes it more fan friendly. Those are the things that should be considered.
I was thinking the exact same thing. It is about the kids who worked hard and made it to the finals. It is also about their families that worked hard to get their kids to that point. The kids want it and their families want it, too. They deserve it! Sorry if someone has a 2 hour ride home after the tournament, but the kids who were out there wrestling also have a 2 hour drive home. It is not about YOU it is about the kids that worked hard to get there. Lets not forget it!
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  #42  
Old 03-15-19, 11:19 AM
EagleSE EagleSE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Behrens View Post
Going strictly from memory (I did not look it up), Shamile Pattie?
He would be the one. It wasn't at the state tournament though.
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  #43  
Old 03-15-19, 11:22 AM
EagleSE EagleSE is offline
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Possibly run consolation semis Friday night, move up placement matches on Saturday and get an early start on final round?
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  #44  
Old 03-15-19, 02:09 PM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by EagleSE View Post
He would be the one. It wasn't at the state tournament though.
Never said it was. He beat him at the District tournament and then lost to Fried in OT 2-1 in the State finals on a penalty point for a singlet grab. I can't confirm or deny if the infraction actually occurred. Would love to see the video though to judge for myself
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  #45  
Old 03-15-19, 04:08 PM
Gobucks17 Gobucks17 is offline
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I donít have a solution, which is why Iím not in charge... but the finals take WAY too long. No reason for the show to start at 5:30 and heavies to get done at 10:30. A dual lasts what, an hour and a half tops? So why should it take 5 hours to wrestle what is the equivalent of one dual per mat? I donít get it, but maybe Iím not supposed to
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  #46  
Old 03-16-19, 01:09 PM
whippet175 whippet175 is offline
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I don't think anyone will disagree that it's for the kids. My only point is why can't things start earlier? You also need to take the fans who pay for a ticket into consideration. I think the kids and their families would also enjoy wrestling in front of a full arena, not smaller and smaller crowds, as seems to be the trend.
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  #47  
Old 03-16-19, 02:30 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleSE View Post
Possibly run consolation semis Friday night, move up placement matches on Saturday and get an early start on final round?
That would involve finding a way to push the start of the Friday night program up an hour (at least).

Then, another factor in play is that you're using up a full "gate" for just one round of consolation matches. I'd say Saturday morning is probably the least popular session of the tournament as it is, and that would exacerbate with this set up.

One thing I have not done over the years is document the exact last match times of each session at the state tournament, nor document when the facility is fully ready for Saturday evening, as that is the only major breakdown which occurs.
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  #48  
Old 03-16-19, 02:42 PM
CoachKerry CoachKerry is offline
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Great ideas in the thread. If this was already pointed out I do apologize but its important to remember logistics. Shortening the tournament in any way must be logistically possible. For example if you shorten the Saturday afternoon break, does that leave time to transform the arena for finals? As far as it being a 3 day tournament, the only way to shorten it is to add mats, reduce the size or quantity of brackets, or reduce the time of the matches. I don't think or hope that any of that happens!

That being said, I would like to know if it is possible to start the finals earlier from one of the tournament officials. How much time is needed to transform the arena? Can doors be open at 4:00PM? Can HOF ceremony be started at 4:50? Can wrestling start at 5:00?

I love the idea of doing 7 matches, then have a 30m break like they do a halftime at any other sporting event. During that time do several of the awards ceremonies. Maybe you can fit 3 or 4 weight classes in before you have to resume wrestling.

Marquee matchups are a good idea too. I would also suggest that the marquee matches be selected by the fans. You guys could have an app developed that allows fans to vote on which matches they are most hyped to see. That would ensure the most people stay to the end.

This is a really big idea, but as long as we are on the topic of changing the format - I think its about time to change the format to a single division for individual state. Right now we have 48 wrestlers in each weight class wrestling for 3 state titles. We could make it 48 wrestlers (64-man bracket with the top 24 getting byes first round like in OAC Junior High). This would result in a tournament that has roughly the same number of matches we have now. Instead of 3 matches for 1st in the finals, we could have the top 6 placers in each weight class wrestle their finals matches together on Saturday night.

If you're worried about the fact that state is a 3 day tournament, if you were to go single-division, 32-man bracket, where top 8 at each of 4 districts qualify, you should be able to reduce it to a 2 day tournament. Of course only having 4 district tourneys for all divisions (currently we have 12) would need a lot of qualifying tourneys! Possibly an additional week of tourneys - like Sectional, Regional, District, State or something to that effect.

Just something to chew on...
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  #49  
Old 03-16-19, 03:20 PM
bdhof bdhof is online now
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Originally Posted by chidy View Post
Never said it was. He beat him at the District tournament and then lost to Fried in OT 2-1 in the State finals on a penalty point for a singlet grab. I can't confirm or deny if the infraction actually occurred. Would love to see the video though to judge for myself
I thought Freid got pinned in the state tourney his freshman year, but don't know who did it. He was 3rd that year. The finalists were Randy Minadeo, Solon (1st), and Mike Elsass, North Canton Hoover (2nd). I don't remember when Ohio went to full wrestle-back rather than follow the finalists (only wrestle-back if the guy who beat you makes the finals). If it was follow the finalists, then it had to be either Minadeo or Elsass (and might have been anyway).
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  #50  
Old 03-16-19, 05:22 PM
Phaderus Phaderus is offline
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Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
I thought Freid got pinned in the state tourney his freshman year, but don't know who did it. He was 3rd that year. The finalists were Randy Minadeo, Solon (1st), and Mike Elsass, North Canton Hoover (2nd). I don't remember when Ohio went to full wrestle-back rather than follow the finalists (only wrestle-back if the guy who beat you makes the finals). If it was follow the finalists, then it had to be either Minadeo or Elsass (and might have been anyway).
Fried lost to Elsass from NCH in the semi finals. It was considered a big upset at the time. Minadeo won state. Then next year, at 105, Minadeo lost in the state semi-finals to Jason Lafflin, who then lost to Elsass in the finals. That was a pretty loaded weight class that produced five different eventual state champs.
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  #51  
Old 03-17-19, 09:19 AM
chidy chidy is offline
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Originally Posted by bdhof View Post
I thought Freid got pinned in the state tourney his freshman year, but don't know who did it. He was 3rd that year. The finalists were Randy Minadeo, Solon (1st), and Mike Elsass, North Canton Hoover (2nd). I don't remember when Ohio went to full wrestle-back rather than follow the finalists (only wrestle-back if the guy who beat you makes the finals). If it was follow the finalists, then it had to be either Minadeo or Elsass (and might have been anyway).
The matches Iím referring to are from Friedís SO. year and Pattieís JR. Year.
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  #52  
Old 03-18-19, 08:48 AM
TBone 22 TBone 22 is offline
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Unfortunately this all boils down to money. 5 sessions equals money made by the OHSSA.
I hear the tournament may be moving from Thursday-Saturday to Friday-Sunday. OSU students need to be able to park for class, teachers need to park, parking is becoming a premium, so the days may change. That said. The smart new schedule would be; Friday wrestling starts at 10am. Running 4 rounds/1 session on Friday, first round, quarterfinals, 2 consolation rounds. Problem with this is, wrestlers are out of tournament day 1, many parents would leave, causing loss of attendance & money for OHSSA. Day 2 wrestle semi finals in the morning, consolations morning, afternoon, Finals Saturday evening or finals round wrestles at noon Sunday. This allows for less hotel stay potentially.
Would this work? Opinions are like noses, everyone has one.
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  #53  
Old 03-18-19, 09:00 AM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by TBone 22 View Post
Unfortunately this all boils down to money. 5 sessions equals money made by the OHSSA.
I hear the tournament may be moving from Thursday-Saturday to Friday-Sunday. OSU students need to be able to park for class, teachers need to park, parking is becoming a premium, so the days may change. That said. The smart new schedule would be; Friday wrestling starts at 10am. Running 4 rounds/1 session on Friday, first round, quarterfinals, 2 consolation rounds. Problem with this is, wrestlers are out of tournament day 1, many parents would leave, causing loss of attendance & money for OHSSA. Day 2 wrestle semi finals in the morning, consolations morning, afternoon, Finals Saturday evening or finals round wrestles at noon Sunday. This allows for less hotel stay potentially.
Would this work? Opinions are like noses, everyone has one.
If this event moves from Friday-Sunday, it will be disastrous for attendance and the bottom line. All they have to do is look at the state duals attendance. That event could be more, but placing it on a Sunday and dragging it out until 9 at night has made the finals for the duals a disaster from an attendance point.

Some sort of scheme as you've proposed would have to be administered. No way could they go on the same schedule and move it all back a night. If OSU is making this an issue, it might be time to find another venue or change it to a two day event. I question the parking issue. 3 Lots, in the middle of their athletic facilities are being utilized. Unless I'm unaware of where classes are being held and how far students are parking to walk, there is 1 classroom building in the immediate area? Is parking for students and staff really the issue?
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  #54  
Old 03-18-19, 10:55 AM
Pin2Win!! Pin2Win!! is offline
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Originally Posted by eyes r burning View Post
If this event moves from Friday-Sunday, it will be disastrous for attendance and the bottom line. All they have to do is look at the state duals attendance. That event could be more, but placing it on a Sunday and dragging it out until 9 at night has made the finals for the duals a disaster from an attendance point.

Some sort of scheme as you've proposed would have to be administered. No way could they go on the same schedule and move it all back a night. If OSU is making this an issue, it might be time to find another venue or change it to a two day event. I question the parking issue. 3 Lots, in the middle of their athletic facilities are being utilized. Unless I'm unaware of where classes are being held and how far students are parking to walk, there is 1 classroom building in the immediate area? Is parking for students and staff really the issue?
My son attends osu and spring break started that fri. So maybe if they schedule it the weekend after it would help with class conflicts. However, its a huge stadium meant for big crowds, are they not sufficient with the parking?

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  #55  
Old 03-18-19, 04:29 PM
TBone 22 TBone 22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pin2Win!! View Post
My son attends osu and spring break started that fri. So maybe if they schedule it the weekend after it would help with class conflicts. However, its a huge stadium meant for big crowds, are they not sufficient with the parking?

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On Thursday & Friday until 4pm all state tournament attendees either parked in lots down Lane ave and walked or parked at Kohls parking lot and were bused back to the Schott. Seems like a parking issue. This was the first year people were charged to park.
Next year the girls state basketball finals are scheduled at St Johns Arena on the same weekend. Talk about a parking problem. This year was state hockey finals. Too much going on at OSU on the same weekend.
The state seems like they tried to avoid the Arnold Classic the prior week by moving to the second weekend in March. Now they are adding girls basketball to the mix. Maybe it is time to move the event???
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  #56  
Old 03-18-19, 06:44 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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I honestly do not know much about the parking situation for the state tournament, nor the parking situation on the Ohio State campus on a weekday -- as I am part of the working media for state wrestling with a parking pass, and I have not been on Ohio State's campus regularly for about 15 years when I was in school there.

I had no idea there was a charge for parking at this year's state wrestling tournament (if there was). In previous years, I had heard that parking was buried in the cost of a ticket. I do know that transportation & parking on the Ohio State campus is now under the auspices of a private company, and has been for a few years.

When it comes to the event itself, there have been some conversations around different aspects of the event. The constant desire of the coaches association has been to have the event NOT on the same weekend as the Arnold Fest, as that drives up costs and congests the Columbus area.

There was also conversation about moving the event up before the Arnold fest, which would be that last weekend of February type of date (two weeks earlier than now). However, that was a non-starter with the Schott due to facility set-up (I recall something about the hockey ice sheet being an issue). I then read/heard something about exploring Nationwide Arena, and that didn't go very far.

Looking at the event as presently constituted, having all three divisions together as a communal event, there are a limited number of facilities that can host the event -- you need a certain amount of floor space to put the necessary mats down, you need a certain amount of seating capacity, there's also something to be said for being in a good facility, and then people need somewhere to stay as a critical mass can't/aren't commuting.

In terms of dual state, I think the move to Sunday has bolstered attendance during the preliminary in comparison to when the event was on Saturday. I am sure finals attendance would be better on Saturday then on Sunday, but for either day that time is a non-starter.

When I look at the individual state tournament, I could see a Friday-through-Sunday format being a net positive for the event (see right here).

FRIDAY
*10:00 check-in/weigh-in
*1:00 start of first round (DIII, DII, DI)
*5:15 (est) quarterfinals (5 mats)/first consolation (five mats) for DIII, then DII, then DI

SATURDAY
*10:00 second consolation (6 mats)/semifinals (3 mats) for DIII, then DII, then DI
*TBD - second weigh-in for all wrestlers
*TBD - consolation quarterfinals (3 mats per division, all divisions) then consolation semifinals

SUNDAY
*10:30 ceremonies, 11:00 first whistle - state finals

Benefits (or non-negatives that I can see)
-teams will mostly be at a wash in terms of hotel nights, as many come in for the event on Wednesday at present; some may choose to stay Saturday night, depending on state finals expectations
-one less missed school day
-one less missed work day for those people that work "traditional" schedules
-reasonable get on the road time for the state finals program
-the five session state program is maintained for those worried about ticket $$ and fixed costs

The biggest concern I see is how to fit that Saturday into a scheduling window. That break between morning & evening is going to be less than it is as present, though right now the Friday break is excessively long in my opinion.
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  #57  
Old 03-18-19, 07:03 PM
Tartan78 Tartan78 is offline
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Originally Posted by Binuova View Post
The only thing I would change to make attendance increase would be to have a Bucksman vs Borofan prime time match right after the heavy weights.

I spit out my water when I read this....LMFAO


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  #58  
Old 03-18-19, 08:05 PM
eyes r burning eyes r burning is offline
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Originally Posted by TBone 22 View Post
On Thursday & Friday until 4pm all state tournament attendees either parked in lots down Lane ave and walked or parked at Kohls parking lot and were bused back to the Schott. Seems like a parking issue. This was the first year people were charged to park.
Next year the girls state basketball finals are scheduled at St Johns Arena on the same weekend. Talk about a parking problem. This year was state hockey finals. Too much going on at OSU on the same weekend.
The state seems like they tried to avoid the Arnold Classic the prior week by moving to the second weekend in March. Now they are adding girls basketball to the mix. Maybe it is time to move the event???
I don't really understand this. I've always been able to park by Owens Stadium, no matter the time. Those lots are never full until Friday/Saturday night and even then, there are plenty of spots still open. Never paid a dime either.
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  #59  
Old 03-18-19, 08:56 PM
Pin2Win!! Pin2Win!! is offline
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Originally Posted by TBone 22 View Post
On Thursday & Friday until 4pm all state tournament attendees either parked in lots down Lane ave and walked or parked at Kohls parking lot and were bused back to the Schott. Seems like a parking issue. This was the first year people were charged to park.

Next year the girls state basketball finals are scheduled at St Johns Arena on the same weekend. Talk about a parking problem. This year was state hockey finals. Too much going on at OSU on the same weekend.

The state seems like they tried to avoid the Arnold Classic the prior week by moving to the second weekend in March. Now they are adding girls basketball to the mix. Maybe it is time to move the event???
I didnt think they charged for parking. We didnt pay this year, however we rode with my mom who had handicapped parking. So we had no complaints on parking issues.

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  #60  
Old 03-19-19, 08:43 AM
Downtime Downtime is offline
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Finals are too long. It was 3 hours and only through 160. Ohsaa, you need to wrestle 106, 112, 119, then hand awards for 106, wrestle another weight hand out 113, etc...20 minutes to a half hour for awards is way too long and boring.
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