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  #1  
Old 10-28-18, 04:22 PM
madman madman is offline
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Big Ten Results

It's that time of year when Ohio State proves once again that they put no priority on men's cross country...



Nine teams had their top 5 scorers in before OSU had their first runner cross the line.

For those who insist on pack running, rejoice! OSU's top 5 were within 20 seconds of each other.

Based on results like these, Ohio State shouldn't even be in the Big Ten. They shouldn't even be in Div I.

I'm sure that I have missed at least one recent Ohio HS grad but the team of Mau (Jr), Horter (Fr), Riordan (So), Jha (Fr), and Moore (So) scored 138 points and would have been 6th in the 12 team field. That's just recent HS grads that are in the Big 10 and doesn't include guys like Jordan (Jr) and Chad Johnson (Fr) who were 5th and 11th, respectively, at the Big 12 Championship.

There are many other talented recent Ohio HS grads that are red-shirted at other Universities who could have improved OSU's result. Why fund the sport if you have no intention of fielding a competitive team? Northwestern doesn't have a team, so there's no clause in the Big Ten rules requiring it.
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  #2  
Old 10-28-18, 04:35 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Maybe Ohio needs to look a bit farther away. The Top two Badgers at B10's are from Australia. The 3rd place finisher for Nebraska, is South African.
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  #3  
Old 10-28-18, 04:48 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Glass half empty! The women were eighth. Can't you be happy for them?

NC state women won the ACC and men took 3rd. There is an Ohio kid on the women's team 2nd runner and two men 4th and 5th runners. Try and be happy, not sad.
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  #4  
Old 10-28-18, 04:51 PM
madman madman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
Maybe Ohio needs to look a bit farther away. The Top two Badgers at B10's are from Australia. The 3rd place finisher for Nebraska, is South African.
Right... because there's no talent here in Ohio that Ohio State has missed out on.

Even if those two Aussies hadn't been in the race, the next two scorers for Wisconsin were from Nebraska and South Dakota. Even if you had the populations for those three states together, you only get to ~75% of the population of Ohio.

Long term, I think Ohio State would need to look beyond the state boundaries to be a perennial top 10 team in the NCAA DI championship. Right now they're struggling to be a top 10 team in a 12 team conference meet.
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  #5  
Old 10-28-18, 05:05 PM
madman madman is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Glass half empty! The women were eighth. Can't you be happy for them?

NC state women won the ACC and men took 3rd. There is an Ohio kid on the women's team 2nd runner and two men 4th and 5th runners. Try and be happy, not sad.
In the women's Big Ten race, Michigan and Michigan State went 1-2 with both teams having 4 of their top 5 runners who are Michigan HS grads - a state with 10% fewer people than Ohio. There have been recent years where both Michigan and Michigan State women's top 7 have been entirely "home grown" and have either won or been 2nd at Big Tens. Neither team has any foreigners in their top 7.

I'm a Michigan grad who is happy to see Ohio State lose in almost any setting, but I am frustrated and angry when I see Ohio State crap on this sport year after year.
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  #6  
Old 10-28-18, 07:02 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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OSU CC has been a dumpster fire for over a decade. They dont fund the program. All CC is for OSU is a 2nd rate sport that sucks scholly money from track
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  #7  
Old 10-28-18, 08:17 PM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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I follow OSU XC only to see how the Ohio kids on the team are progressing, but other than that, I couldn't care less how the team does. There's no law that says the best runners in Ohio have to go to Ohio State. Plenty of other programs have money, quality academic offerings, and other amenities that might surpass what OSU can offer (weather, facilities, etc).


OSU football has the built-in recruiting advantage of being the only Power 5 program in the state. XC has no Power 5 arrangement.
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  #8  
Old 10-28-18, 08:25 PM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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I have been coaching in Ohio for 25 years and i have never seem an OSU recruiter at any meet. Their recruiting is not good. Sitting around and offering fast kids after they are fast obviously is their mode.
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  #9  
Old 10-29-18, 02:33 AM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
Right... because there's no talent here in Ohio that Ohio State has missed out on.
I agree with you but also recognize Ohio State has never been a cross-country school, and it never will be with who's in charge. Distance runners have no interest in sprint sports Directors or middle-distance T&F coaches, who also handle cross country.
Ohio State has to search far, to find athletes who'll fit the mold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
All CC is for OSU is a 2nd rate sport that sucks scholly money from track
^exactly.....
Who's tOSU's "Blue Chip" XC recruit? A 800m runner, who has a famous older brother.

*Makes me wonder which sports director is paid more, Mick Byrne or Karen Dennis?

Last edited by said_aouita; 10-29-18 at 02:55 AM..
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  #10  
Old 10-29-18, 06:57 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Originally Posted by said_aouita View Post
I agree with you but also recognize Ohio State has never been a cross-country school, and it never will be with who's in charge. Distance runners have no interest in sprint sports Directors or middle-distance T&F coaches, who also handle cross country.
Ohio State has to search far, to find athletes who'll fit the mold.


^exactly.....
Who's tOSU's "Blue Chip" XC recruit? A 800m runner, who has a famous older brother.

*Makes me wonder which sports director is paid more, Mick Byrne or Karen Dennis?
Search for athletes??? No the university needs to search for and fund a coach that wants to build the program. THere are 100's of JH coaches that could do a better job then what they have now
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  #11  
Old 10-29-18, 07:10 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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You sort of can't argue with the success of the track and field program. They have made a decision of where the $ goes and it's not distance. A lot of schools make the same decision. Some schools make the opposite decision and put their money and time and effort into the distance. When I sat down with NC State, they mapped out exactly who was in their conference and knew how they spent their money and even places like Clemson and Florida State that do not have to offer $ to some athletes because they get so much from the state if they have a certain GPA. NC State puts their money in Distance and throws. And even in the Throws, they find the kids that have talent but might not have had good coaching in HS and get them to come and build them up to the point of getting a scholarship. When my daughter was there, 90% of money went to Distance kids. They did give a female triple jumper some money, but her HS performances nearly automatically made her an all-american in college. She really wanted to go to NC State, so it wasn't a full to start with. Coach Geiger explained that distance kids were there for 3 seasons and not just 1-1/2 to 2 like the sprinters and skills events, so that's where he put his $. Even then, I'm not sure there is enough money for just a distance program if you miss on a kid or two. In my daughter's recruiting class, three of the 4 girls flamed out for one reason or another. One girl had a mental breakdown and had to stop running. They kept her on scholarship. Another girl's dad got sick with cancer and passed and she just tanked after that. The third girl left after 2 years to get married and stay home. My daughter was the only one of the 4 that contributed and she was clearly the last of the recruits as far as expectations. The two with the mental break downs, cost even more because they kept them on scholarship and also offered them other assistance to help them cope with the issues they were having. They don't miss often like that, but that could kill a program.

I think Wisconsin is set up the same. They put all their $ into the distance kids. Not sure that OSU can have it both ways. They are either going to have a track team successful or have to put all the resources into the CC program to build it up. They've done pretty good in track and field.
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  #12  
Old 10-29-18, 07:22 AM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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OSU AD and head coach both receive a bonus.

What is easier for a BIG10 champion
100,200,4x100, 4x400, and LJ recruit?

Or 1 long distance guy that could place in the 1500, steeple, 5k and 10k but almost impossible to win 2 events.

The move towards a sprint school is not only smart for the track and field but also monetarily.

Edit: Here is the news article- https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ohio-...ould-earn-1-5m

Article:

Every time an Ohio State individual athlete or team wins a national title — in track, swimming, fencing, rifle, pistol or any of 24 other non-revenue sports — athletic director Gene Smith will receive a bonus of $18,000 to $36,000 under terms of the new contract extension announced earlier this week.

As one of the highest-paid ADs, Smith will make a base salary of $940,484 and could earn more than $1.5 million a year in salary and bonuses under the pact that runs through June 2020. His previous base salary was $857,000 with a total of $1.3 million.
While it's typical for top programs to give bonuses for the success of revenue-producing sports, it's not always standard to provide bonuses for non-revenue sports.

If the Buckeyes football team plays in a major bowl game or the men's or women's basketball teams make it to the Final Four, Smith will receive four times his weekly base salary, or more than $72,000. Should the football team or men's basketball team go on to win the national championship, Smith would receive an additional $36,000.

Last edited by EuclidandViren; 10-29-18 at 07:42 AM..
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  #13  
Old 10-29-18, 08:33 AM
ccrunner609 ccrunner609 is offline
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Unreal.
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  #14  
Old 10-29-18, 03:18 PM
bleuandgold bleuandgold is offline
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As someone who does not follow HS XC, could OSU win the state meet? Just based off of B1G results, I can't imagine some of their top 9 even making it on the podium.
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  #15  
Old 10-29-18, 04:49 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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They would win the state meet with absolutely no trouble. Not that beating high school teams says that much, but they would win easily. Their performances at the Big Ten meet would all be mid to low 15s efforts.

I believe I have posted this same point on here before, but I have a couple of friends who coach track in Wisconsin and they complain just about as much about Wisconsin not really recruiting sprinters as we complain on Yappi about OSU and distance. So psychodad's point is well taken.
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Old 10-29-18, 06:03 PM
bleuandgold bleuandgold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathking View Post
They would win the state meet with absolutely no trouble. Not that beating high school teams says that much, but they would win easily. Their performances at the Big Ten meet would all be mid to low 15s efforts.
Good point, probably a dumb question on my part. However, I went ahead and put in their Big Ten times on Hansen's Equivalent Race calculator... 8ks at Big Ten to 5ks come out to: 15:26, 15:27, 15:31, 15:38, 15:39, 15:56, 16:00, 16:36. (It's worth noting that you're allowed to run 9 at Big Ten, while Ohio State chose to only have 8). So while OSU would probably win the state meet with their top 5 pretty easily, I'd imagine the same cannot be said about their 6-10 runners/JV squad. Am I getting too into the weeds? Probably. Still pretty bad however.
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  #17  
Old 10-29-18, 06:51 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Head coach Mick Byrne - $153,016 salary
Dennis,Karen L Head Coach $171,060 salary *includes a $12k bonus
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  #18  
Old 10-29-18, 06:51 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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As much as I dislike OSU being a Cincinnati Bearcat myself, it is NOT a good thing for the largest D1 school in Ohio to put out such a bad product. This is not a reflection on the kids themselves that are running: it is a reflection of the lack of commitment on the part of OSU to field a reasonably competitive team in a given sport. This does not reflect well on the state of Ohio because other athletes DO look at OSU as the premier school in Ohio, whether any other Ohio schools like it or not. OSU football, as a whole, does the state a great deal of good in publicity. But when a number of other OSU sports do poorly, it has the opposite effect.

So, although I intensely dislike OSU personally, I do wish them to have successful programs, including their XC teams.

My 2 cents.
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Old 10-29-18, 07:09 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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OSU's XC program is not that great. But to carry on another point, put their men's track team in a dual meet against the D1 field with two athletes per event, and assume OSU doesn't alter their lineup to best advantage and they beat the field. It's not necessarily how I would try to build the combined Track and XC program, but they have had a reasonable amount of TF success so who am I to judge? My athletes who have competed for OSU recently have all had good experiences.
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  #20  
Old 10-31-18, 01:48 PM
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OSU ran 8 guys in the race. Checking some high school PR's we have Landis (9:04). Other than that the best high school time I can find is 9:30 (Regas). We do have a couple 800m stars in Alex Lomong & Nick Miller. But this team was not built with any intention of competing in Cross Country.
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  #21  
Old 11-09-18, 01:17 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Great Lakes Regional results:
8 Dayton
9 Miami
10 Bowling Green
11 Youngstown
12 Cincinnati
14 Akron
20 Xavier
21 Ohio State
24 Ohio U
26 Wright State
27 Toledo
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Old 11-09-18, 01:19 PM
KevinL KevinL is offline
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Women:
7 OSU
9 Toledo
11 Miami
12 Dayton
13 Xavier
15 BG
17 Akron
18 Wright St
24 Ohio U
25 Cinci
27 YSU
28 Cleveland St
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Old 11-09-18, 07:25 PM
said_aouita said_aouita is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinL View Post
Great Lakes Regional results:
8 Dayton
9 Miami
10 Bowling Green
11 Youngstown
12 Cincinnati
14 Akron
20 Xavier
21 Ohio State
24 Ohio U
26 Wright State
27 Toledo
Rich Davis at UD, is one of the best coaches in Ohio. They are lucky to have him. Great fella.
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Old 11-10-18, 05:07 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Not at all happy that Miami beat BGSU. BGSU gets no loyalty or love from me after getting rid of men's Track and Field, but my hatred for Miami will never die.

NC State won both the Men's and Women's titles at the Southeast Regional.

Dominique Clairmonte (Lexington) was the #2 and finished 5th overall. for the Women.

Elly Henes (Bob Henes - Woodridge & Laurie Gomez - Boardman Daughter) Finished second in the race.

The men had only an 18 second gap 1-5.

Joe Bistritz (Chagrin Falls) 2nd on team and finished 12th overall.

Gavin Gaynor (Hudson) 5th on team 24th overall.

I worked a Great Lakes Regional one year at Oakland (Michigan 2010 I believe) where Wisconsin men could have held hands across the line. Their 1-5 couldn't have been more than 5 seconds gap. They were at the front of the race too. They got on one of their teammates for beating some guys at the end. They went something like 2,6,7,8,9. They were on him for possibly screwing up other guys chances of qualifying as an individual. Ohio State had a pretty good showing that year finishing 4th if my memory is correct.

Looks Like Kyle Mau had a nice race for Indiana, but overall the team was only 5th. Can that get them in? I haven't gone through all the stuff to see. We will know today. According to FloTrack, Michigan will grab the last spot and Indiana is out.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-18, 10:04 AM
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Northern Arizona won the Mountain West Regional with a twenty one second split of 29:18 -29:39. I remember at the Mason Inv. in track, I talked to someone from East who told me that Northern Arizona recruiters went to Dustin Horter's house trying to recruit him. He ultimately went to Indiana and is their second man behind Mau.
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