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  #1  
Old 03-27-19, 11:01 AM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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Throwing Events and the State Track Meet

Why dont all divisions do like D2 does and do one event on Friday and one event on Saturday? The athletes train for 3 weeks to do compete in one event a day and then they get to the biggest meet of the year and have to do both events in one day. Thats tough!
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  #2  
Old 03-27-19, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjcoach View Post
Why dont all divisions do like D2 does and do one event on Friday and one event on Saturday? The athletes train for 3 weeks to do compete in one event a day and then they get to the biggest meet of the year and have to do both events in one day. Thats tough!
Unless you attend nothing but multiple day meets, the athletes do all field events in the same day at dual meets and invites all regular season.

The main reasons I can think of are:
1. The current schedule creates the least amount of possibility that any field athlete has to check out to do a running event. DI is currently the only division where the field event sessions heavily overlap with the running events.

2. If you alter the field event schedule to spread them over 2 days for each divisions but also avoid having the kind of overlap I'm referring to in reason #1, there's a chance that all the events for a specific division are not completed by the time the running events are concluded which means you can't do proper team trophy presentations. For example, let's say I have DIII field events compete in the early afternoon sessions on both days, so there is no conflict with the running events in the mornings. That's all well and good, but unless 2 teams steamroll everyone in the running finals, we can't do any team trophy presentations in the stadium until Sat. at 3 or 4pm when the field events are done.

Play around with the event schedules, maybe you'll find something that I'm not finding that doesn't create more event overlap while also allowing us to present team trophies in the stadium at the end of the running finals for each division.
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Old 03-27-19, 12:11 PM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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but this is not a dual meet and you have trained the athletes to compete at one event in one day. If you coinicide the field events with the running events for that division it would work fine, as it does at districts and regionals. There are 3 throwing events on Friday at state and 3 throwing events on Saturday at state. Why not go split like D2 has too. Ive had athletes compete in D2 and D3 and with the split the kids have a clear advantage.
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Old 03-27-19, 12:43 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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As a self-made historian of the state meet with research on-going, I can tell you that the state meet format has had numerous forms in the past. The present schedule came into play about 15 years ago (can't remember specific year...middle-age moment here). Before that, Divisions I, II, III had rotated their schedules each year so that each no division would have preference over the other year-to-year. For whatever reason, they went to the present format.

Like I said, it's had numerous formats since 1908. The early years (prior 1920) saw it as a one-day format. Prelims in the mornings, finals in the afternoon. Then it went to 2 days. In 1965 & 1966, an attempt was made at a 1-day format again. That was the last time it was a one-day format.

There are pros and cons of each format.
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Old 03-27-19, 08:44 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjcoach View Post
Why dont all divisions do like D2 does and do one event on Friday and one event on Saturday? The athletes train for 3 weeks to do compete in one event a day and then they get to the biggest meet of the year and have to do both events in one day. Thats tough!
I know. We should split all 17 events up so that athletes don't have to compete in two events in one day. Its tough!
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Old 03-27-19, 09:11 PM
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I know. We should split all 17 events up so that athletes don't have to compete in two events in one day. Its tough!
17 Days of the State Track Meet! Works for me.

Actually, make that 25 Days of the State Track Meet because you have to get the prelims out of the way for the 3 sprints, 3 sprint relays, and 2 hurdle events.
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Old 03-28-19, 09:49 AM
CC Track Fan CC Track Fan is offline
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That idea would make it easier to do the 1600 and 3200 double!
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Old 03-28-19, 10:52 AM
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I feel like making these kids throw both on one day at this level is bush league. The emotional requirements, stress, logistics should be avoided to allow the kids that make it in both to achieve their best.

The argument about throwing in your local invite in April is not a good argument compared to the State meet.

Only the OHSAA has a problem fitting in 16 throwers in a timely manner.
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Old 03-28-19, 01:27 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Sorry, but I can't imagine basing your training on throwing one event one day and one another. No way.
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Old 03-28-19, 01:39 PM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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I dont base my training on that but the month of may is
week 1 county- 2 day meet
week 2 - league 1 day
week 3 districts - 2 days
week 4 regionals 2 days
then state...the biggest meet of the year....2 events in 3 to 4 hrs

there is no way to train for that adrenaline drain
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Old 03-28-19, 02:12 PM
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Yariel Soto of Centerville won the LJ on his 6th attempt, then a few minutes later cleared 15-2 and 15-6 on his 5th and 6th jumps of the day in the pole vault to win that event, then probably an hour after that anchored the 4x400 team to a 2nd place finish.

If you choose to be a multi-event athlete, part of that is accepting the challenge of competing in those events on the same day...or even at the same time.
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Old 03-28-19, 05:04 PM
cvctrackfan cvctrackfan is offline
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What are field events I have never heard of them
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Old 03-28-19, 05:34 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by cvctrackfan View Post
What are field events I have never heard of them
"They" are those things that come after the "&" in "T&F"
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Old 03-28-19, 08:09 PM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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Originally Posted by Altor View Post
Yariel Soto of Centerville won the LJ on his 6th attempt, then a few minutes later cleared 15-2 and 15-6 on his 5th and 6th jumps of the day in the pole vault to win that event, then probably an hour after that anchored the 4x400 team to a 2nd place finish.

If you choose to be a multi-event athlete, part of that is accepting the challenge of competing in those events on the same day...or even at the same time.
and he probably did it at districts and at regionals also....your missing the point....D2 has it split....why dont the others split it also
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Old 03-28-19, 08:14 PM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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I never realized what a drain on the athletes it was to do both these events in 4 hrs until I had an athlete place fifth in the shot and 3rd in the disc at the state meet. He had a PR by 3 feet in the shot then tried to come back and compete in the disc. He finished third but had a chance a a state championship but he was just spent. He had nothing left...by the way he was the only boy to score in both events that day.

I gained a lot of respect for those throwers who double score or even double win...absolute studs in my mind
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Old 03-28-19, 10:02 PM
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We have lots of other athletes who have to compete in two events in one day. While I would not be opposed to splitting them up, I have also seen numerous examples of athletes doing well in both on a single day. For us, I think the regional meet is the first time all year that they don't compete in both events on one day.
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Old 03-28-19, 10:29 PM
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Up until 2 years ago, our district meet did all field events the 1st day. I liked it because 1) Kids only had to get out of school early the 1st day instead of having to do it both district days and missing the same classes both days, and 2) It helped produce better performances in the running finals on the 2nd day.

Last edited by Mr. Slippery; 03-29-19 at 05:54 AM..
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Old 03-29-19, 03:02 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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I was regularly competing in 3-4 events/meet throughout HS until district. PV, DT (my best event, despite my height, or lack thereof), SP, and a LJ or 4x1 on occasion. To me it was normal, and would've been boring if I was a single or 2-event athlete.

I remember back in the 90s when the Anderson (now Mason) D1 district had the field events on Monday, then the running prelims on Wednesday, and finals on Friday. It was a very good format and allowed for focus on the field events by the coaches & athletes. I still think it was a better format for the district meet vs. today
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Old 03-29-19, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
I was regularly competing in 3-4 events/meet throughout HS until district. PV, DT (my best event, despite my height, or lack thereof), SP, and a LJ or 4x1 on occasion. To me it was normal, and would've been boring if I was a single or 2-event athlete.

I remember back in the 90s when the Anderson (now Mason) D1 district had the field events on Monday, then the running prelims on Wednesday, and finals on Friday. It was a very good format and allowed for focus on the field events by the coaches & athletes. I still think it was a better format for the district meet vs. today
I agree with the set up for Field at districts on Monday. First as an athlete I could concentrate on my throws and then get to enjoy cheering my team Wednesday and Friday.
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Old 03-29-19, 09:09 AM
oncearunner oncearunner is offline
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Originally Posted by ccrunner609 View Post
I feel like making these kids throw both on one day at this level is bush league. The emotional requirements, stress, logistics should be avoided to allow the kids that make it in both to achieve their best.

The argument about throwing in your local invite in April is not a good argument compared to the State meet.

Only the OHSAA has a problem fitting in 16 throwers in a timely manner.
I couldn't disagree more. That's the deal... if you don't think you'll be throwing your best by doing both events, don't do it. Many athletes qualify in multiple events (think: Dustin Horter), and the coach's job is to maximize performance and points.

Thus you have a great number of kids running 3, 4 events on the same day, pushing for a team title, while others simply choose 1, going for the elusive individual championship.

Bottom line? You have to know your athletes and make your coaching choices accordingly.
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Old 03-29-19, 09:58 AM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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Originally Posted by oncearunner View Post
I couldn't disagree more. That's the deal... if you don't think you'll be throwing your best by doing both events, don't do it. Many athletes qualify in multiple events (think: Dustin Horter), and the coach's job is to maximize performance and points.

Thus you have a great number of kids running 3, 4 events on the same day, pushing for a team title, while others simply choose 1, going for the elusive individual championship.

Bottom line? You have to know your athletes and make your coaching choices accordingly.
but again they have been doing that for the whole month of may except at the state meet. The athletes you are talking about have been doing the same format EXCEPT the throwers.

Why not have D3 throw theres in the morning on Friday and Saturday while the D3 prelims and finals are going on, D2 throw while their D2 prelims and finals are going on and the D1 on Friday and Saturday late afternoon while their prelims and finals are going on?

Ive had athletes compete in D2 and D3 and the throwers definitely had an advantage in D2 being split
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Old 03-29-19, 10:15 AM
oncearunner oncearunner is offline
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but again they have been doing that for the whole month of may except at the state meet. The athletes you are talking about have been doing the same format EXCEPT the throwers.

Why not have D3 throw theres in the morning on Friday and Saturday while the D3 prelims and finals are going on, D2 throw while their D2 prelims and finals are going on and the D1 on Friday and Saturday late afternoon while their prelims and finals are going on?

Ive had athletes compete in D2 and D3 and the throwers definitely had an advantage in D2 being split
Well, I guess because you also have distance runners who may have to double back from a smoking 1600 to run the 3200 an hour or so later. Or be faced to choose between the two. Or 200 runners who have to double back in the 4x400. Or long jumpers who are also in heats of the 100.

Throwers aren't pariahs, dude. All track athletes have to deal with multiple heats, multiple events, fatigue, etc. Excellence and titles is often determined by those who manage these things the best.
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Old 03-29-19, 10:34 AM
Altor Altor is offline
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Originally Posted by jnjcoach View Post
Why not have D3 throw theres in the morning on Friday and Saturday while the D3 prelims and finals are going on, D2 throw while their D2 prelims and finals are going on and the D1 on Friday and Saturday late afternoon while their prelims and finals are going on?
1. As somebody else said: with a schedule like this you are more likely to have athletes that need to compete in two events at the same time. With the current schedule and barring any weather issues, this is only going to happen with the PV, LJ, and one of the throws or with the HJ and the other throw (I don't remember which is which).
2. As somebody else said: they do their best to make sure all the field events for every division are done before the 4x400 on Saturday. If you are competing D-III field events on Saturday morning and we get rain, you might be able to continue with running events, but the field events may be delayed for safety reasons. The benefit of scheduling D-III field events for Friday afternoon allows you to compete those under the lights or start them early on Saturday if you have to in order to make sure they are completed by the 4x400.
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Old 03-29-19, 11:02 AM
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Throwers aren't pariahs, dude. All track athletes have to deal with multiple heats, multiple events, fatigue, etc. Excellence and titles is often determined by those who manage these things the best.[/QUOTE]

but again you train for that, if they are a stud like you say then they probably have been doing that all year. 1600 3200 people make that decision all the time ad i get that. This is a fixable situation though. you cant fix those other things, people have been doing that as long as the sport has been going on. The issue here is why do D2 athletes get the luxury of a split day while the D1 and D3 do not
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Old 03-29-19, 11:05 AM
jnjcoach jnjcoach is offline
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2. As somebody else said: they do their best to make sure all the field events for every division are done before the 4x400 on Saturday. If you are competing D-III field events on Saturday morning and we get rain, you might be able to continue with running events, but the field events may be delayed for safety reasons. The benefit of scheduling D-III field events for Friday afternoon allows you to compete those under the lights or start them early on Saturday if you have to in order to make sure they are completed by the 4x400.[/QUOTE]

They do 3 throws on friday and 3 on saturday. why is who is doing it an issue?
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Old 03-29-19, 01:11 PM
Altor Altor is offline
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Originally Posted by jnjcoach View Post
They do 3 throws on friday and 3 on saturday. why is who is doing it an issue?
Literally answered in the part you tried to quote.
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Old 03-29-19, 01:22 PM
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[QUOTE=jnjcoach- They do 3 throws on friday and 3 on saturday. why is who is doing it an issue?[/QUOTE]

Actually there are 12 events total, 4 D-1, 4 D-2, 4 D-3

I understand the small window, 12:00 and 3:00, and gets even smaller when you score in the 1st and wait at the awards stand for the announcement and photo. BUT, they don't want to make the (D-3) throwers begin earlier than 9:30, it is their state meet too, as important to them as to your kids I am sure.

A big issue is that it is more likely to find a thrower in D-2 and 3 that is also involved on the track than you will find in D-1. It happens from time to time in D-1, I can remember a few in my 43 years coaching, but many more times this has happened in the other 2 meets.
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