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  #1  
Old 02-12-19, 09:36 AM
nooks nooks is offline
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Whose the 2nd fastest ohio sprinter ever?

Saine? Allman? Pryor? Thoughts???
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  #2  
Old 02-12-19, 11:00 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooks View Post
Saine? Allman? Pryor? Thoughts???
My question first off is, who is 1st on your list?

With regard to pure 100m speed, then Jonathan Burrell of John Marshall with his triplet of 10.38 LEGAL clockings. Saine only matched him once, that at the 2006 Roosevelt Memorial.

As far as my vote for the top 2 all-time IMPACT sprinters in Ohio HS history?

#1 - Jesse Owens (East Tech, '33) who tied the world 100yd record of 9.4 MT and set a new world interscholastic record of 20.7 MT for the 220yd straightaway at the '33 Chicago Interscholastic meet. Also ran 100m in 10.3 MT at Lakewood in '32. He also just happened broad jump a world's interscholastic record of 24' 11 1/4" that same year and had 6' 2" high jump skills (interscholastic record was 6' 7"), only 2nd on his team behind Dave Albritton. Owens was 19 years, 9 months at the time of the '33 State meet, and already a husband with a child at the time.

#2 - Chris Nelloms (Dunbar, '90) - Anyone who saw Nelloms run in person was astonished. 1990 T&F News HS Athlete of the Year as a senior. Ran 45.80 as a SOPH in 1988, qualifying for the Olympic Trials the same year. 13.30 FAT National Federation record in the 110mH hurdles at the Dayton Regional. 23'+ long jump skills with a reported foot at 26'+. This is all before his 20.47/45.59 Ohio HS records at the '90 State meet. Later that year, he won the International Prep in Elmhurst Illinois with a 45.36 best, and won the world junior title in 45.43. 44.2 relay leg. Oh, he also won the '89 state 100m with a legal 10.71 as a junior. Nelloms was also measured with a stride frequency of 5.02, one of less than a handful ever to be measured at 5.0 or better. Scary fast.

Those are my top 2 Ohio HS sprinters of all-time. It is impossible to compare track timings as surfaces & conditions vary. Even indoors, surfaces are so much better now than they were 30years ago and before then. Owens ran on CINDER, and given how little he actually trained in HS, if he'd been doing his thing these days, I still think he'd have all the records (100/200/LJ). He was also a top flight 220yd low hurdles athlete having set the world record in that event at Ann Arbor during his 45 minute world record spree on 6 May 1935.

Burrell, Saine, Pryor, all very fast runners, but too one-dimensional. Owens & Nelloms are the two best SPRINTERS.

Below are the four (4) 10.38 clockings in Ohio HS history:

Mark Wind First Last School Class/Div Grade Place Heat Meet Location Date
10.38 -3.0 Jonathan BURRELL Cleveland John Marshall I 12 1 F USATF Junior Spokane, WA 26 Jun 1993
10.38 Burrell Cleveland John Marshall I 12 1 H Pan American Junior Winnipeg, Manitoba, CAN 15 Jul 1993
10.38 -0.9 Burrell Cleveland John Marshall I 12 1 F Pan American Junior Winnipeg, Manitoba, CAN 16 Jul 1993
10.38 +1.6 Brandon SAINE Piqua I 12 1 F Don Mitchell Roosevelt Memorial Welcome Stadium 6 May 2006

Last edited by JAVMAN83; 02-12-19 at 11:25 AM..
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  #3  
Old 02-12-19, 11:02 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Prep? Jesse Owens, with Bobby Lawson first. This back in the day they'd take a cigarette break at the 70yd mark and still run 9.3-9.4
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Old 02-12-19, 01:39 PM
mathking mathking is offline
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If we are talking boys, Burrell probably is the fastest in just pure speed, just based on top performances. So you could make a case for Saine. But I agree that Owens and Nelloms are the two best overall sprinters in Ohio HS history. Nelloms 400s and 110s were other worldly. And Owens was Owens. It is hard to know what Owens could have run with modern shoes on all weather tracks, but I suspect that Nelloms top speed might have been better than Burrell's. In any event I would guess that someone in the group Burrell, Saine, Nelloms and Owens has to be #2.
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Old 02-12-19, 09:45 PM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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Where does Thomas Jefferson Rank. In college and as a pro,he was outstanding. Les Carney had a couple of world records for 10 minutes or so. Don't see where it say HS.
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  #6  
Old 02-13-19, 01:19 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
Where does Thomas Jefferson Rank. In college and as a pro,he was outstanding. Les Carney had a couple of world records for 10 minutes or so. Don't see where it say HS.
True, but given this a forum generally about HS athletics, it was probably implied. I inferred such.
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Old 02-13-19, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
True, but given this a forum generally about HS athletics, it was probably implied. I inferred such.
Agreed. If you start looking at the total picture then guys start getting introduced who just kept on getting better level by level i.e. David Payne from Wyoming HS.
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Old 02-13-19, 09:01 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by skins99 View Post
Agreed. If you start looking at the total picture then guys start getting introduced who just kept on getting better level by level i.e. David Payne from Wyoming HS.
Talk about a SLEEPER that was developed by the Bearcats (GO BEARCATS!). Run-of-the-mill HS hurdler in the 14s, then...BAM...2007 World Bronze Medalist...2008 Olympic Silver Medalist...13.02 second lifetime best. The FASTEST 110mH hurdler ever to come out of Ohio. Willie Davenport does have him beat, though, with Willie's '68 Gold Medal in Mexico City.

Does any other COUNTRY let alone a state have better Ohio native bests of:

110mH - 13.02 seconds (David Payne)
400mH - 47.02 seconds (Edwin Moses)

Some serious stuff there.
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  #9  
Old 02-13-19, 09:59 AM
ENA2 ENA2 is offline
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Ohio has had some GREAT hurdles who have done some things on the national and world stage. Just off the top of my head. Add Ryan Willson as he is tied Payne for Ohio PR of 13.02 and... World Championship silver in 2013. Dan Oliver - NCAA silver and World record in shuttle hurdles in the 80's. and af course, Harrison Dillard was the best of his time and one of the greatest ever. In the longer hurdles Glen "Jeep" Davis did pretty well... gold in 56 and 60 olympics! Derrick Williams was ranked "top 10 in the World" and several others have done some amazing things. I know I have left may off.

Dillard also won the olympic 100 Dash, so that may make him the 2nd best next to Owens in that event... to keep with the original post.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-19, 10:22 AM
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Mr. Slippery Mr. Slippery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
Talk about a SLEEPER that was developed by the Bearcats (GO BEARCATS!). Run-of-the-mill HS hurdler in the 14s, then...BAM...2007 World Bronze Medalist...2008 Olympic Silver Medalist...13.02 second lifetime best. The FASTEST 110mH hurdler ever to come out of Ohio. Willie Davenport does have him beat, though, with Willie's '68 Gold Medal in Mexico City.

Does any other COUNTRY let alone a state have better Ohio native bests of:

110mH - 13.02 seconds (David Payne)
400mH - 47.02 seconds (Edwin Moses)

Some serious stuff there.
Hate to veer off tangent, but to answer your questions:
Does another country have a better tandem of PRs in the men's hurdles? No. There isn't much national commonality at the top of the all-time world lists beyond the USA.

Does another state have a better tandem of PRs in the men's hurdles? Yes, California. Dominique Arnold's 12.90 in the 110H Kevin Young's 46.78 WR in the 400H. There's also Mark Crear's 12.98 as a backup.

Texas can offer up the tandem of Jason Richardson's 12.98 and Bryan Bronson's 47.03 which is comparable to Payne and Moses.

Georgia is nothing to sneeze at either with the likes of either Roger Kingdom or Terrence Trammell in the 110H and Angelo Taylor in the 400H, but their combined PRs aren't as good as Payne & Moses. Moses' 47.02 has held up incredibly well all-time and makes it difficult to match up with Ohio.

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_110hok.htm
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_400hok.htm
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  #11  
Old 02-13-19, 11:53 AM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Slippery View Post
Hate to veer off tangent, but to answer your questions:
Does another country have a better tandem of PRs in the men's hurdles? No. There isn't much national commonality at the top of the all-time world lists beyond the USA.

Does another state have a better tandem of PRs in the men's hurdles? Yes, California. Dominique Arnold's 12.90 in the 110H Kevin Young's 46.78 WR in the 400H. There's also Mark Crear's 12.98 as a backup.

Texas can offer up the tandem of Jason Richardson's 12.98 and Bryan Bronson's 47.03 which is comparable to Payne and Moses.

Georgia is nothing to sneeze at either with the likes of either Roger Kingdom or Terrence Trammell in the 110H and Angelo Taylor in the 400H, but their combined PRs aren't as good as Payne & Moses. Moses' 47.02 has held up incredibly well all-time and makes it difficult to match up with Ohio.

http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_110hok.htm
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_400hok.htm
Nice research! In some events, the US holds it own Olympics each year...the USATF Nationals.
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  #12  
Old 03-05-19, 04:47 PM
TCSoup TCSoup is offline
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Jeff Phillips from Columbus Whitehall 75 / 76 has to be considered.

He tied Jesse Owens 100 yard dash record which both of them converted to 10.3
100m, Phillips was also the 1st Ohio Boy to break 21.0 in the 220 in the State Meet running a 20.9 to set the State record in 76.
He beat a All Star line up in the 100 Finals blowing them away .

Phillips tied Owens 100 yard dash record in the Semi's running a 9.4 100 which converts to a 10.28 100m

In the Finals:
Phillips 9.5 100m 10.39
Ty Hicks 9.6 100m 10.5
Anthony Blair 9.6 100m 10.5
Jeff Washington 9.7 100m 10.61
Oscar Singer 9.8 100m 10.72
Jeff Walker 9.8 100m 10.72

Based off Conversions the 100 yard Final in 76 might have been the fastest field ever assembled for a Final in Ohio, Ohio School History at the State Meet.
For example the last 2 years 2017 and 18 Only the D1 100m Champion would have even placed in the Top 6 in 76 .
The year Brandon Saine won in 2006 , Which was the next fastest year i looked at the Top 4 would have placed in the Finals, but Saine " Only " ran a 10.5 Finals and he would have been battling Hicks and Blair to stay out of 4th place.

Walker and Blair both ended up blazing 440 yard times in their careers with Walker owning that State record for awhile.

Last edited by TCSoup; 03-05-19 at 05:21 PM..
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  #13  
Old 03-05-19, 08:52 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCSoup View Post
Jeff Phillips from Columbus Whitehall 75 / 76 has to be considered.

He tied Jesse Owens 100 yard dash record which both of them converted to 10.3
100m, Phillips was also the 1st Ohio Boy to break 21.0 in the 220 in the State Meet running a 20.9 to set the State record in 76.
He beat a All Star line up in the 100 Finals blowing them away .

Phillips tied Owens 100 yard dash record in the Semi's running a 9.4 100 which converts to a 10.28 100m

In the Finals:
Phillips 9.5 100m 10.39
Ty Hicks 9.6 100m 10.5
Anthony Blair 9.6 100m 10.5
Jeff Washington 9.7 100m 10.61
Oscar Singer 9.8 100m 10.72
Jeff Walker 9.8 100m 10.72

Based off Conversions the 100 yard Final in 76 might have been the fastest field ever assembled for a Final in Ohio, Ohio School History at the State Meet.
For example the last 2 years 2017 and 18 Only the D1 100m Champion would have even placed in the Top 6 in 76 .
The year Brandon Saine won in 2006 , Which was the next fastest year i looked at the Top 4 would have placed in the Finals, but Saine " Only " ran a 10.5 Finals and he would have been battling Hicks and Blair to stay out of 4th place.

Walker and Blair both ended up blazing 440 yard times in their careers with Walker owning that State record for awhile.

Cannot convert 100 yards to 100m as the 100 yards is 28' 1" short of 100m. Even if you did, a 9.4 MT = 9.64 FAT (conversion) *1.0936 = 10.54 FAT for 100m, not a 10.28.

There at least 11 guys who have run 10.53 FAT or better. Hands-down, Burrell is the fastest of them with a trio of 10.38s and another 10.39. He has at least 11 times faster than 10.54. Both Mario Allmon and Brandon Saine have at least a pair of times faster than 10.54 for each of them.

With regard to the 220yd, Phillips ran 21.0 in the final, which is listed as tying the State meet record. His 20.7 must've come in the prelims (that would match Craig Whitmore's data). That would be the record for the 220yd run on the curve, of course. Owens did technically run sub 21 with his 20.7 on a straightaway. There's no telling what Owens could have done on a curve, unfortunately, as that would have only happened at an extremely limited number of situations, and I don't know if he ever did run a 220 on a curve while in HS.

The '76 100yd final was quite a race! Wish I could've seen that one.

As for Phillips, I would definitely place him in the top 10 for the 100. Number 2, no way. Perhaps he could be a contender for the 220yd/200m #2, but definitely not the 100. Too many others of equal or superior abilities.

Phillips did have a great dual with the then coming-into-his own Carl Lewis in the NCAA 100m final in 1981! In a wind-aided (+2.6) final, Lewis just edges out Phillips 9.99 to 10.00. Phillips had run a legal PR of 10.11 (+1.8) in semi-final #3.

I've included some pages from the '81 NCAA meet below taken from the August '81 issue of T&F News. Also in that meet was '76 AAA 440 champ, Anthony Blair, anchoring Tennessee's winning 4x400m with a 44.6 anchor.
Attached Thumbnails
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  #14  
Old 03-06-19, 04:25 PM
TCSoup TCSoup is offline
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Conversion Calculator

I used the Milesplit Conversion chart which has been around since 2003

www.milesplit.com
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Old 03-06-19, 09:28 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by TCSoup View Post
Conversion Calculator

I used the Milesplit Conversion chart which has been around since 2003

www.milesplit.com
I understand that, but you have to first convert the manual time (9.4 in this case) to FAT, which is 9.64. Once you enter that into the calculator, you get the 10.54 FAT.
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Old 03-07-19, 01:51 PM
TCSoup TCSoup is offline
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Originally Posted by JAVMAN83 View Post
I understand that, but you have to first convert the manual time (9.4 in this case) to FAT, which is 9.64. Once you enter that into the calculator, you get the 10.54 FAT.
got it
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Old 03-07-19, 09:58 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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This would be a great race to watch if we could get all of them together in their prime:

James Cleveland Owens
Bobby Lawson
Jeff Phillips
Jonathan Burrell
Mario Allmon
Brandon Saine
Blake Heriot

and throw in Chris Nelloms as an unknown factor as he never did focus on the 100m. He won the '89 title just "doing it".
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  #18  
Old 03-18-19, 09:05 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Javman83...
My first would be Nelloms, followed by Jesse Owens, almost as you have them. My 3rd would be Jeff Phillips. Sorry it took me so long to respond.
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Old 03-18-19, 09:16 PM
nooks nooks is offline
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Nelloms clocked 10.05 or thereabout his freshman year at Ohio State, where he was being trained for the 100. I'd dare say that had he also focused on that in HS, he would likely have run at least 10.3 by his Sr. year...probably faster. Just mind boggling!
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Old 03-23-19, 08:04 PM
the123kidz the123kidz is offline
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Lebrea grad Bobby Cruse is the best sprinter Ohio has had. Still holds the state records as well as the MAC records while at Kent. Plus he's a damn good co-worker 😀
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Old 03-23-19, 08:34 PM
EuclidandViren EuclidandViren is offline
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Many boys are being talked about. What about the lady sprinters?

A couple of names: Beard and Tianna both could be on that list. And a little girl named Abby Steiner.
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Old 03-23-19, 09:38 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Originally Posted by EuclidandViren View Post
Many boys are being talked about. What about the lady sprinters?

A couple of names: Beard and Tianna both could be on that list. And a little girl named Abby Steiner.
Abby's the best performance-wise by far of the modern era for the 100/200, especially in the 200m. It would be interesting, though, if Brenda Morehead had been training & running in today's world. I think she may have beat Abby had she been in this era. Beard is definitely hands-down the best of all the 400m girls. Brookhaven's Khalilah Carpenter would be in the thick of that mess, too.

Tianna's bests were 11.72 & 23.92, so she wouldn't even make my top 10 for those events.
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Old 03-23-19, 09:44 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Lebrea grad Bobby Cruse is the best sprinter Ohio has had. Still holds the state records as well as the MAC records while at Kent. Plus he's a damn good co-worker ��
Very good sprinter & competitor, but not freaky fast. Ohio's had much better. I understand your natural bias.

I was too strident sounding in an earlier version of this response. It wasn't meant to offend. I've deleted my initial response sentence.

Last edited by JAVMAN83; 03-24-19 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 03-23-19, 09:52 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Nelloms clocked 10.05 or thereabout his freshman year at Ohio State, where he was being trained for the 100. I'd dare say that had he also focused on that in HS, he would likely have run at least 10.3 by his Sr. year...probably faster. Just mind boggling!
Nelloms ran a wind-aided 10.03 in 1992 as a sophomore. We'll never know just how good he could've been because of the gun shot injury, and then later his incarceration (40-to-life). What a waste.
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Old 03-23-19, 11:02 PM
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Also add LaShauntea Moore (Hoban and Firestone) in there.
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Old 03-23-19, 11:31 PM
JAVMAN83 JAVMAN83 is offline
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Also add LaShauntea Moore (Hoban and Firestone) in there.
She'd certainly be in the thick of it. Would make a fantasy race to see Moore, Steiner, Morehead, and Carpenter in a 100/200 together.
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