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  #91  
Old 10-11-18, 07:08 AM
HowardWebb HowardWebb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centercirclechuck View Post
And what is the logic to D3 soccer is only worthy of 2 referees vs D1 & 2? Same number of players on the pitch. pitch is the same size.

D3 playing by different rules?


It’s not a difference of divisions, it’s a shortage of referees, also some schools only want to pay for 2 referees.

Ideally, all games that want 3 referees would have them, reality is that’s impossible with current numbers
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  #92  
Old 10-11-18, 08:08 AM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centercirclechuck View Post
Everyone says, the "good" referees need to be assigned to the perceived competitive games and everyone wants to be assigned the big #1 vs 2 games, the lesser "quality" of games takes just as much if not more game management skills by a "Referee Team".
Bottom line there should be "Good" Referees on every game.
Agreed, Chuck, but we all know that can't happen. Actually, when you think about it, the AR's are just as important as CR's because there is always debate about whether a player should have been called for offside or not. If you can't keep up with the back line, you shouldn't be out there. If coaches were wise, they would notice if the AR can't keep up and have their forwards exploit it and "cheat" a little bit for that advantage.

Bottom line is that there aren't enough quality, in shape referees to cover all positions for all games. It is what it is. Until younger guys step up and become referees, the problem will continue to exist. I'm 45 and I'm considered a "young" ref. That's ridiculous.

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  #93  
Old 10-11-18, 08:59 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardWebb View Post
It’s not a difference of divisions, it’s a shortage of referees, also some schools only want to pay for 2 referees.

Ideally, all games that want 3 referees would have them, reality is that’s impossible with current numbers
Bingo
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  #94  
Old 10-11-18, 11:00 AM
HowardWebb HowardWebb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatneff View Post
Agreed, Chuck, but we all know that can't happen. Actually, when you think about it, the AR's are just as important as CR's because there is always debate about whether a player should have been called for offside or not. If you can't keep up with the back line, you shouldn't be out there. If coaches were wise, they would notice if the AR can't keep up and have their forwards exploit it and "cheat" a little bit for that advantage.

Bottom line is that there aren't enough quality, in shape referees to cover all positions for all games. It is what it is. Until younger guys step up and become referees, the problem will continue to exist. I'm 45 and I'm considered a "young" ref. That's ridiculous.

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47 for me and I’m considered a “youngster”
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  #95  
Old 10-11-18, 11:03 AM
winbypin winbypin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by centercirclechuck View Post
And what is the logic to D3 soccer is only worthy of 2 referees vs D1 & 2? Same number of players on the pitch. pitch is the same size.
D3 playing by different rules?
Don't ask me. I don't schedule refs or anything. Just stating what I have seen.
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  #96  
Old 10-11-18, 12:37 PM
HowardWebb HowardWebb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
According to data from the OHSAA, the average age for a soccer official in the state is 50. So you have the same chance of having a 70 year old on the game as you do a 30 year old.


That’s not how it works
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  #97  
Old 10-11-18, 07:54 PM
bucksman bucksman is offline
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In most cases, two-man games are either a matter of a lack of officials to cover games, or the schools/league choosing to only have two officials as a matter of cost.

When it comes to cost, let's say a varsity crew is at 60-45-45 (three-man) or 50-50 (two-man), a school has saved 400 dollars assuming eight regular season home games for one gender; depending on your price points, you can do your own math.

If there's a crunch, you're more likely to see three-man for D1/D2 than D2/D3 because of the speed, pace, and physicality of a D1/D2 game is generally greater than in a D2/D3 game.
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  #98  
Old 10-16-18, 10:38 AM
steelboot steelboot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer89 View Post
According to data from the OHSAA, the average age for a soccer official in the state is 50. So you have the same chance of having a 70 year old on the game as you do a 30 year old.
You can't assume that based on the data that the average age of refs is 50. You need to understand the standard deviation and high and lows (oldest and youngest) to truly understand the probability of having a 30 or 70 year old ref.
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  #99  
Old 10-16-18, 09:07 PM
TheStuff142 TheStuff142 is offline
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The issue with many D3 games probably has something to do with location. A LOT of D3 schools in Ohio are "in the middle of nowhere"...available refs in reasonable driving distance is partly to blame. Not in City's like Cincy, Dayton, Cleveland etc.. but in many areas of the state that could be an additional issue.

2 Man crew in OHSAA playoff games suck. Impossible to have 3 man crews in 1st round games all over the area in all divisions but it still sucks for the kids. Watched game Monday night where the 2 man crew took back an early goal due to offsides..neither were in great position to make the call...watched the video today...not offsides. sour grapes, but what can you do.
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  #100  
Old 10-17-18, 07:26 AM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStuff142 View Post
2 Man crew in OHSAA playoff games suck. Impossible to have 3 man crews in 1st round games all over the area in all divisions but it still sucks for the kids. Watched game Monday night where the 2 man crew took back an early goal due to offsides..neither were in great position to make the call...watched the video today...not offsides. sour grapes, but what can you do.
Not meaning to pick on you, but the player was neither offsides nor was the player not offsides. However, he/she may have been offside or not offside.

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  #101  
Old 10-17-18, 08:09 PM
TheStuff142 TheStuff142 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phatneff View Post
Not meaning to pick on you, but the player was neither offsides nor was the player not offsides. However, he/she may have been offside or not offside.

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I think you get the point. Thanks for the grammer lesson.
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  #102  
Old 10-19-18, 10:07 AM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Originally Posted by HowardWebb View Post
47 for me and I’m considered a “youngster”
43 here.

it seems to me 40 is the minimum though we do have a few youngsters in our area who have stepped up
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  #103  
Old 10-21-18, 10:00 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStuff142 View Post
The issue with many D3 games probably has something to do with location. A LOT of D3 schools in Ohio are "in the middle of nowhere"...available refs in reasonable driving distance is partly to blame. Not in City's like Cincy, Dayton, Cleveland etc.. but in many areas of the state that could be an additional issue.

2 Man crew in OHSAA playoff games suck. Impossible to have 3 man crews in 1st round games all over the area in all divisions but it still sucks for the kids. Watched game Monday night where the 2 man crew took back an early goal due to offsides..neither were in great position to make the call...watched the video today...not offsides. sour grapes, but what can you do.

I agree.......I don't think ANY Playoff game should have 'settle' for the 2M/2W system. And I have expressed this thought with several ADs when the discussion of having the 2M/2W system in place for Playoff Games: I would gladly drive 90 minutes one way in order to be that 3rd Official. I doubt I am alone in that sentiment.

Another potential issue.......in those areas where 2M/2W systems are used exclusively during the season......do those officials fail to get enough experience working as an AR and/or 3 Man Center? I've heard this seems to be a problem; hopefully it's 'urban legend'.
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  #104  
Old 10-24-18, 06:38 AM
steelboot steelboot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheStuff142 View Post
The issue with many D3 games probably has something to do with location. A LOT of D3 schools in Ohio are "in the middle of nowhere"...available refs in reasonable driving distance is partly to blame. Not in City's like Cincy, Dayton, Cleveland etc.. but in many areas of the state that could be an additional issue.

2 Man crew in OHSAA playoff games suck. Impossible to have 3 man crews in 1st round games all over the area in all divisions but it still sucks for the kids. Watched game Monday night where the 2 man crew took back an early goal due to offsides..neither were in great position to make the call...watched the video today...not offsides. sour grapes, but what can you do.
That is a complete lie. Harrison had 2 players offside on the goal that was called back. The ref that called the offside was in perfect position to make the call (even with West's last defender). Sour grapes!!? more like Fake News!!!
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  #105  
Old 11-01-18, 06:54 AM
Philos_Finest Philos_Finest is offline
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Saw this happen a few weeks ago in a sectional game...

Team A clears the ball out of their box & pushes up the field(except 1 player fixes shinguard and is few yards behind the rest of the defense). Team B wins the clear and plays a ball through to a player behind the line ontop of the box but infront of player who fixed guard. Ref blows whistle(causing players to stop) and then yells play on after seeing the player wasn't actually offside. Team B then scores.

The player who held the shooter "on" was off to the side(opposite side of the field for the official in this 2-man crew) and never could have interfered with the play. Theoretically, one of the defenders could have recovered enough to alter the shot if the whistle didn't make them hesitate, probably not though.

Game finishes regulation 2-2 and Team B wins in OT.


Thoughts? Was the correct protocol followed? First time i have seen that happen.
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  #106  
Old 11-01-18, 07:02 AM
HowardWebb HowardWebb is offline
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Once the whistle was blown, play stopped, IDFK to team in possession
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  #107  
Old 11-01-18, 09:53 AM
phatneff phatneff is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philos_Finest View Post
Saw this happen a few weeks ago in a sectional game...

Team A clears the ball out of their box & pushes up the field(except 1 player fixes shinguard and is few yards behind the rest of the defense). Team B wins the clear and plays a ball through to a player behind the line ontop of the box but infront of player who fixed guard. Ref blows whistle(causing players to stop) and then yells play on after seeing the player wasn't actually offside. Team B then scores.

The player who held the shooter "on" was off to the side(opposite side of the field for the official in this 2-man crew) and never could have interfered with the play. Theoretically, one of the defenders could have recovered enough to alter the shot if the whistle didn't make them hesitate, probably not though.

Game finishes regulation 2-2 and Team B wins in OT.


Thoughts? Was the correct protocol followed? First time i have seen that happen.
Turrible. Can you say where this game was played?

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  #108  
Old 11-01-18, 10:33 PM
MJ_SoccerRef MJ_SoccerRef is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardWebb View Post
Once the whistle was blown, play stopped, IDFK to team in possession
Agree. Horribly managed there........whistle blows / play is DEAD. Restart is either Drop Ball (no possession) or IDK (possession). Period. That particular 'pooch' is now pregnant.......
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  #109  
Old 11-09-18, 09:33 AM
psycho_dad psycho_dad is offline
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My father was a ref. My brother was a ref. We have many coaches in the family. All-State players...Blah Blah Blah. Just as with football, I have gotten to the point where I cannot stand going to soccer games. Nothing but complaining about the refs from people that do not know the rules. Do not understand advantage or even the simplest of things. Not just complaining, but all out screaming and wanting people fired from a gig that does not pay nearly well enough. A few years ago, my brother ignored the flag for an offside in a JV game with under 2 minutes left. It was close and he had a good eye on it too. Parents were going nuts! What kind of call is that? The game ended and 2 or 3 of the parents were out of the stands yelling at him. What kind of call was that? He ignored it for a few minutes and then with them still yelling, he said, "That's a 7 to nothing with under 2 minutes left in the game call." One of the parents got so enraged by that that she ran out to the field to "Get his name, so she could report him and make sure he didn't ref ever again." They won the game 7-0. He then, had to stay and work the sideline for the varsity game where he had to take their yelling for another hour and a half. The coached called him later in the week to let him know the call was correct when they were doing film study. Even if it wasn't. who cares, it was 7-0. My nieces and nephews will not become refs ever because of that. My children left soccer for Cross Country in HS. My daughter played both soccer and ran CC for one year and gave up soccer, Her true love, because of how terrible parents and teammates and competitors complained and lost if over reffing. I go to maybe one game a year now and quickly remember why I don't go to more. There are so many more things to worry about by the kids level of skill and play, that reffing rarely favors one team or the other.

Name calling and berating people out there that are doing something for the kids is unacceptable to me. If you get upset over a scrimmage, you don't need to go to soccer games anymore. Just stay at home. Watch the games and cheer for your team and stop complaining about reffing. I just saw where Strongsville had too many girls on the field for nearly 12 minutes. How does the coach not catch that? How did parents not catch that in the stands and get the info to the coach?. But after the fact, it's all on the refs.
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  #110  
Old 11-09-18, 09:55 AM
belied dat belied dat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_dad View Post
My father was a ref. My brother was a ref. We have many coaches in the family. All-State players...Blah Blah Blah. Just as with football, I have gotten to the point where I cannot stand going to soccer games. Nothing but complaining about the refs from people that do not know the rules. Do not understand advantage or even the simplest of things. Not just complaining, but all out screaming and wanting people fired from a gig that does not pay nearly well enough. A few years ago, my brother ignored the flag for an offside in a JV game with under 2 minutes left. It was close and he had a good eye on it too. Parents were going nuts! What kind of call is that? The game ended and 2 or 3 of the parents were out of the stands yelling at him. What kind of call was that? He ignored it for a few minutes and then with them still yelling, he said, "That's a 7 to nothing with under 2 minutes left in the game call." One of the parents got so enraged by that that she ran out to the field to "Get his name, so she could report him and make sure he didn't ref ever again." They won the game 7-0. He then, had to stay and work the sideline for the varsity game where he had to take their yelling for another hour and a half. The coached called him later in the week to let him know the call was correct when they were doing film study. Even if it wasn't. who cares, it was 7-0. My nieces and nephews will not become refs ever because of that. My children left soccer for Cross Country in HS. My daughter played both soccer and ran CC for one year and gave up soccer, Her true love, because of how terrible parents and teammates and competitors complained and lost if over reffing. I go to maybe one game a year now and quickly remember why I don't go to more. There are so many more things to worry about by the kids level of skill and play, that reffing rarely favors one team or the other.

Name calling and berating people out there that are doing something for the kids is unacceptable to me. If you get upset over a scrimmage, you don't need to go to soccer games anymore. Just stay at home. Watch the games and cheer for your team and stop complaining about reffing. I just saw where Strongsville had too many girls on the field for nearly 12 minutes. How does the coach not catch that? How did parents not catch that in the stands and get the info to the coach?. But after the fact, it's all on the refs.
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  #111  
Old 11-09-18, 12:28 PM
DonJuanDeMarco DonJuanDeMarco is offline
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Originally Posted by belied dat View Post
Eh. This isn't new.
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