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  #1531  
Old 05-02-18, 04:26 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusaders View Post
Watching him play. Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are the only elite QBs (and that's what you're supposedly drafting at #1 overall) at Mayfield's size and he lacks their skillset. Maybe he can develop but again we're talking #1 overall. One should expect that player to step in from day one and be a difference maker.
Expecting that a QB picked #1 step in and start from day one displays a special kind of cliche'd ignorance. Thanks for that one.

What does/did Brees have that Mayfield lacks, besides now 20 yrs NFL experience ?
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  #1532  
Old 05-02-18, 04:42 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...he_top_qb.html

Quote:
John Dorsey revealed over the weekend that three key members of the Browns organization independently had Mayfield ranked No. 1 when scouting him last fall, despite the fact they weren't working together at the time: Dorsey, Eliot Wolf and Browns consultant Scot McCloughan, who could land a permanent position with the club.

Dorsey was out of work after having been fired by the Chiefs, but scouting players heavily to be ready for his next opportunity; Wolf was director of football operations for the Packers, and McCloughan was running Instinctive Scouting after being fired by the Redskins in March of last year.

Those three, along with former Packers and current Browns personnel exec Alonzo Highsmith, all reached the same conclusion: that Mayfield was the best quarterback in the rich 2018 class.

But they weren't the only ones. Of the 12 teams I've heard back from so far, four had Baker as their QB1, and two more gave me a strong indication that he was. Another league source named two other teams that he believes had him No. 1.

Of the four "definites," that I spoke directly with, three were in the AFC and one was in the NFC.

.........

So, the Browns have taken some heat for drafting Mayfield No. 1 overall, but they have plenty of company in the NFL in believing that he was the best in this class.......
Puck the Fundits
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  #1533  
Old 05-02-18, 06:40 AM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
The D-coordinator's eye test and yours don't match up......hmmmm...
Between myself and Gregg Williams, I'm sure I know who has watched more Ohio State defensive snaps. Hopefully he is right and I am wrong. Regardless, the final comparison will be made to Bradley Chubb and not Lattimore
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  #1534  
Old 05-02-18, 08:09 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
The D-coordinator's eye test and yours don't match up......hmmmm...
Hereís the thing about NFL professional coaches and front office folks. They miss on draft picks, even high draft picks, a lot. So I donít take their word as gospel. They miss just as often as the pundits, fans and draftniks do, but only their decision actually counts.

Do you not believe the average Browns fan would have done a better job with their first round picks since 1999 than the actual professional regimes did? I have no doubt the average fan would have done a better job.
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  #1535  
Old 05-02-18, 08:38 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by WinstonSmith View Post
Why was he asking a UCLA volleyball coach about Josh Rosen?
In line at an airport with the team. Chatted them up and found out Rosen was dating a player and attended games, hung out, etc. It sounds as if everyone either deferred to the coach or gave a guarded answer.
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  #1536  
Old 05-02-18, 08:53 AM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Hereís the thing about NFL professional coaches and front office folks. They miss on draft picks, even high draft picks, a lot. So I donít take their word as gospel. They miss just as often as the pundits, fans and draftniks do, but only their decision actually counts.

Do you not believe the average Browns fan would have done a better job with their first round picks since 1999 than the actual professional regimes did? I have no doubt the average fan would have done a better job.
The Lerners and the Haslams could have saved millions of dollars by just purchasing something like a Sporting News and picking from their list. They couldn't have done worse.
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  #1537  
Old 05-02-18, 08:53 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Hereís the thing about NFL professional coaches and front office folks. They miss on draft picks, even high draft picks, a lot. So I donít take their word as gospel. They miss just as often as the pundits, fans and draftniks do, but only their decision actually counts.

Do you not believe the average Browns fan would have done a better job with their first round picks since 1999 than the actual professional regimes did? I have no doubt the average fan would have done a better job.
Let me get this straight - one of the most logical posters on this site will dodge the comparison of the talent selection records of media experts and pro personnel guys in one paragraph, and the compare Dorsey to Sashi and Farmer in the next.........how awesome is that ?
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  #1538  
Old 05-02-18, 08:57 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Let me get this straight - one of the most logical posters on this site will dodge the comparison of the talent selection records of media experts and pro personnel guys in one paragraph, and the compare Dorsey to Sashi and Farmer in the next.........how awesome is that ?
Eric Fisher. They all make mistakes.
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  #1539  
Old 05-02-18, 10:59 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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When speaking about the QBs ... there were 4 QBs that were closely rated ... each had their fans (upside) and each had their detractors (downside) ... my pick was Josh Allen ... I thought he had the most talent ... but it was not a landslide ... it was just my preference ... I recognize that each had their strong points ... just because the Browns FO did not see it the exact same way as me, does not mean I am going to cry about it ... I want to be wrong ... and Mayfield turns out to be the best ... that means the Browns will be successful going forward.

I also realize there are two parts to getting the right players ... the first is the draft ... but the second is player development .... to me this is where the Browns have lacked for the past decade or so ... The Browns have made their pick ... what must be done now to insure that Mayfield becomes a solid winning QB or better? To me, they need to sell out to him ... design an offense with his skill set in mind ... do everything possible to make him look good and thus help the team be as successful as possible.

As a former coach ... I know as a staff we would have arguments all the time about what we should do or who we should play ... but the one thing I learned was in the end it didn't matter whose idea it was ... we ALL had to sell the final decision to out player 100% ... and coach it up ... that was the only way we were going to be successful. Browns fans ... jump on the Baker Mayfield train and hope to heck it is better than all the other train rides we have been on the past two decades.
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  #1540  
Old 05-02-18, 12:22 PM
y2h y2h is offline
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Is there anything more overrated than leadership?

It is irrelevant if you cant get on the field or stink it up when you do and a 6 foot QB has an excellent chance of not being productive.
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  #1541  
Old 05-02-18, 01:28 PM
Michael Bluth Michael Bluth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Is there anything more overrated than leadership?
Yes. By far, being labeled a "winner" as a college football quarterback is the most overrated thing that gets tossed around. Honestly, what college QB at a decent school isn't a winner? It's the dumbest argument ever
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  #1542  
Old 05-02-18, 01:55 PM
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bedevil bedevil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Yes. By far, being labeled a "winner" as a college football quarterback is the most overrated thing that gets tossed around. Honestly, what college QB at a decent school isn't a winner? It's the dumbest argument ever
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  #1543  
Old 05-02-18, 01:59 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2h View Post
Is there anything more overrated than leadership?

It is irrelevant if you cant get on the field or stink it up when you do and a 6 foot QB has an excellent chance of not being productive.
More over-rated than NFL QB leadership ? Running back talent. Definitely.
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  #1544  
Old 05-02-18, 02:11 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Bluth View Post
Yes. By far, being labeled a "winner" as a college football quarterback is the most overrated thing that gets tossed around. Honestly, what college QB at a decent school isn't a winner? It's the dumbest argument ever
Agreed. The only obvious exception was...gulp...DeShon Kizer's last season at ND!
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  #1545  
Old 05-02-18, 08:09 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by cjb56 View Post
Eric Fisher. They all make mistakes.
They certainly do.
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  #1546  
Old 05-02-18, 11:24 PM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Dorsey is very clearly a data guy. Don't buy the media lies. Football guys and analytics guys aren't mutually exclusive. The media is just mad they are too old to know how to find the good nfl data.

As far as derby numbers, my goal is to find the closest thing they've got to nfl next gen data. There's an api out there waiting for me
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  #1547  
Old 05-03-18, 04:22 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
Dorsey is very clearly a data guy. Don't buy the media lies. Football guys and analytics guys aren't mutually exclusive. The media is just mad they are too old to know how to find the good nfl data.

As far as derby numbers, my goal is to find the closest thing they've got to nfl next gen data. There's an api out there waiting for me
Luckily, we don't have to guess here. Dorsey was asked about this question in an interview before he was hired - specifically what amount of emphasis he places upon statistical data and the fine analysis of it in football decisions. He said quite plainly in his now-familiar direct and plain-spoken manner that he sees analytics as 15% of the player evaluation process.

As far as the post-draft questions about Mayfield's height, Dorsey cited Mayfield's quick feet dropping back (stopwatch ?) and the stat that Mayfield had by far the fewest balls batted at the LoS of all the 2018 QB prospects. It sounds to me as if Dorsey starts winnowing out the chaff with the eye test, and then leans on both stats and advanced stats and personal interactions to move guys to arrange them in a hierarchy. That's what I hear and see, anyway.

Sashi clearly had more than 15% emphasis on numbers - I'd guess closer to half.
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  #1548  
Old 05-03-18, 06:13 AM
cjb56 cjb56 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Let me get this straight - one of the most logical posters on this site will dodge the comparison of the talent selection records of media experts and pro personnel guys in one paragraph, and the compare Dorsey to Sashi and Farmer in the next.........how awesome is that ?
Merely pointing out that even the pros fail at the high draft picks. I have no idea if Mayfield will fail. I hope he does not. I believe Ward will be a Pro Bowl CB at some point. I have serious doubts about BM, however, and would not have drafted him under any circumstances...regardless of how many NFL teams supposedly loved him. As for Ward, I simply do not believe he is more valuable to an NFL team than BChubb would be.

There is no doubt in my mind the average Browns fan, since 1999, would have a better record of picking in the first round than did any of the actual regimes. The jury is obviously still out on Dorsey.
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  #1549  
Old 05-03-18, 07:11 AM
OhioBobcatFan06 OhioBobcatFan06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabezadecaballo View Post
Luckily, we don't have to guess here. Dorsey was asked about this question in an interview before he was hired - specifically what amount of emphasis he places upon statistical data and the fine analysis of it in football decisions. He said quite plainly in his now-familiar direct and plain-spoken manner that he sees analytics as 15% of the player evaluation process.

As far as the post-draft questions about Mayfield's height, Dorsey cited Mayfield's quick feet dropping back (stopwatch ?) and the stat that Mayfield had by far the fewest balls batted at the LoS of all the 2018 QB prospects. It sounds to me as if Dorsey starts winnowing out the chaff with the eye test, and then leans on both stats and advanced stats and personal interactions to move guys to arrange them in a hierarchy. That's what I hear and see, anyway.

Sashi clearly had more than 15% emphasis on numbers - I'd guess closer to half.
Fortunately Dorsey's 85% aligns perfectly with Sashi's 35%
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  #1550  
Old 05-03-18, 11:44 AM
Arrogate Arrogate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
Dorsey is very clearly a data guy. Don't buy the media lies. Football guys and analytics guys aren't mutually exclusive. The media is just mad they are too old to know how to find the good nfl data.

As far as derby numbers, my goal is to find the closest thing they've got to nfl next gen data. There's an api out there waiting for me
Probably more data, already compiled into speed fogure algorithms, readily available for horse racing to make informed decisions in gambling.

You creating your own speed figures?
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  #1551  
Old 05-03-18, 01:44 PM
zeeman zeeman is offline
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Hey Browns fans, bored at work today and after a little research this could have been your draft. I based it on team needs and players that would be available to draft:

1. Sam Darnold QB
1. Roquan Smith MLB or B. Chubb DE
2. Josh Jackson CB
2. James Daniles C
3. Justin Reid S
4. Chris Herndon TE
5. Tyrell Crosby T
6. Parry Nicklson CB

This would have addressed every need they had except WLB and a DT
Bet you hate your FO now
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  #1552  
Old 05-03-18, 05:00 PM
clarkgriswold clarkgriswold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeeman View Post
Hey Browns fans, bored at work today and after a little research this could have been your draft. I based it on team needs and players that would be available to draft:

1. Sam Darnold QB
1. Roquan Smith MLB or B. Chubb DE
2. Josh Jackson CB
2. James Daniles C
3. Justin Reid S
4. Chris Herndon TE
5. Tyrell Crosby T
6. Parry Nicklson CB

This would have addressed every need they had except WLB and a DT
Bet you hate your FO now
I have to wonder what happened to Crosby in the post-season evaluation process. He fell like a rock.
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  #1553  
Old 05-05-18, 09:49 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by OhioBobcatFan06 View Post
Fortunately Dorsey's 85% aligns perfectly with Sashi's 35%
As I'm listening to a youtube clip in another tab in which Darnold with McCown is being discussed, I am reminded what an inept moron Sashi was as the maker of final player personnel decisions. He was an idiot to separate Josh McCown and Deshone Kizer. He was an even bigger idiot to put Kenny Britt with Kizer.

I wish that he had stayed as the contract/cap guy, but he was so far out of his league in the top player selection role it was laughable.


If some other team hires him to manage a tank-a-palooza, he'll do fine. If he hopes to stay on through the rebuild, hopefully he'll have the sense and humility to defer to the real talent evaluators. He seems like a decent guy.

Last edited by cabezadecaballo; 05-05-18 at 12:41 PM..
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  #1554  
Old 05-05-18, 12:30 PM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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Buffalo tried to trade up with the Browns and Denver; their offer for Denver's pick[ 5th] "Beane also reportedly had a deal in place to trade the Nos. 12, 22, and a second-round pick to the Broncos in exchange for the No. 5 overall pick."

Would that have been worth a gamble to get Ward with the 12th pick? if he was gone; they could have got Derwin James or Jaire Alexander with the 12th and Calvin Ridley or Rashaan Evans with the 22nd
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  #1555  
Old 05-05-18, 12:43 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by Termite2 View Post
Buffalo tried to trade up with the Browns and Denver; their offer for Denver's pick[ 5th] "Beane also reportedly had a deal in place to trade the Nos. 12, 22, and a second-round pick to the Broncos in exchange for the No. 5 overall pick."

Would that have been worth a gamble to get Ward with the 12th pick? if he was gone; they could have got Derwin James or Jaire Alexander with the 12th and Calvin Ridley or Rashaan Evans with the 22nd
maybe so

I wanted Chubb, myself, but I'm not going to pretend that I knew better.
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  #1556  
Old 05-06-18, 06:51 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Another former Suburban League player, 6'6 300# Christian DiLauro of Green HS and the Illinini, joins Denzel Ward with the Browns, as an UDFA.


https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/br...an-with-browns

Quote:
After coming off the field at the Browns training facility, DiLauro, an offensive lineman who started 38 of 48 games at Illinois, took a minute to gather his wind and his thoughts.......

Even after landing at a Big Ten school, though, the realization that DiLauro had pro potential didn’t hit him until his junior year.

“First and foremost, you’re there for your degree,” he said. “After that you focus on football, but you get that degree so you have a backup plan.”

For the Illini, DiLauro played both tackle positions, giving him some versatility.

“Coming in I know I can do both. As of right now, I’m working at just right tackle,” he said of his work with the Browns. “I’m sure as camp goes on and everything progresses, they’ll move me around.”
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  #1557  
Old 05-07-18, 02:50 PM
DB135 DB135 is offline
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Lightbulb 2018 Rookie Minicamp

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/...c-b93e3ff61123
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  #1558  
Old 05-08-18, 04:32 PM
tom 48 tom 48 is offline
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Johnny Football hospitalized.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...ion-medication
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  #1559  
Old 05-09-18, 09:26 PM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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wrong thread
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  #1560  
Old 05-17-18, 10:24 AM
joesports joesports is offline
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Browns to be on 'Hard Knocks'?
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