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  #91  
Old 05-18-18, 09:56 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohbino View Post
This is probably the first fact-based analysis of the whole DA/ECNL situation that I've read. Many good points made that reflect the true issues being felt by the players.

Probably the biggest detractor to the DA right now is the inability to get players 8-18 on the roster any additional playing time on other teams. When you only play 1 game a week, and have no re-entry, there's a good chunk of players that simply don't get to play week to week. Last I checked, players like Allie Long, Chrystal Dunn, and even Morgan Brian who might get half a game at most on the USWNT, go back to their NWSL or EPL team and play.

It's is just too bad that US Soccer and the DA in particular can't figure out a way to be more flexible with some of the insane regulations they've put in place. I would think that after a pretty difficult Year One, they would be more willing to make adjustments to some of the things that aren't working / don't make sense.
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  #92  
Old 05-18-18, 05:05 PM
5x26 5x26 is offline
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I swear I hear Freddy Mercury playing in the background on this thread......And another one bites the dust...Concorde Fire drops the DA to focus on the ECNL. How many shoes are left to drop?!!!
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  #93  
Old 05-27-18, 02:19 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
This is probably the first fact-based analysis of the whole DA/ECNL situation that I've read. Many good points made that reflect the true issues being felt by the players.

Probably the biggest detractor to the DA right now is the inability to get players 8-18 on the roster any additional playing time on other teams. When you only play 1 game a week, and have no re-entry, there's a good chunk of players that simply don't get to play week to week. Last I checked, players like Allie Long, Chrystal Dunn, and even Morgan Brian who might get half a game at most on the USWNT, go back to their NWSL or EPL team and play.

It's is just too bad that US Soccer and the DA in particular can't figure out a way to be more flexible with some of the insane regulations they've put in place. I would think that after a pretty difficult Year One, they would be more willing to make adjustments to some of the things that aren't working / don't make sense.
As a parent of a child in the boys DA, I can say that the substitution rules took some getting used to for both players and parents (moreso parents rather than players). But at the end of the day playing time doesn't seem to be an issue. My opinion is the complaints on here about the rule are overblown and just a talking point for yappsters to complain about.

With my son being a keeper I do miss him getting to play in the field in blowouts, which was pretty common in the CUP days. But with the better competition week in and out in the DA, blowouts are a rare occurrence anyway. Plus he's said he doesn't want to play in the field anyway. So once again, that's just a parent problem and not a player, club, or league problem, which as usual is the case of 90% of the stuff people complain about with youth sports anyway lol

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  #94  
Old 05-29-18, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
As a parent of a child in the boys DA, I can say that the substitution rules took some getting used to for both players and parents (moreso parents rather than players). But at the end of the day playing time doesn't seem to be an issue. My opinion is the complaints on here about the rule are overblown and just a talking point for yappsters to complain about.

With my son being a keeper I do miss him getting to play in the field in blowouts, which was pretty common in the CUP days. But with the better competition week in and out in the DA, blowouts are a rare occurrence anyway. Plus he's said he doesn't want to play in the field anyway. So once again, that's just a parent problem and not a player, club, or league problem, which as usual is the case of 90% of the stuff people complain about with youth sports anyway lol

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I don't think the substitution rule is too much of a big deal, except for the fact that it is limited to 5 total per match -- Although I don't think it serves much of a purpose for the 99% of the kids that will never play international soccer.

The bigger issue is limiting players' ability / opportunity to play with other teams to gain more minutes (from even within their own club). The USWNT doesn't have a problem with that, so why should US Soccer?
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  #95  
Old 05-30-18, 08:09 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
I don't think the substitution rule is too much of a big deal, except for the fact that it is limited to 5 total per match -- Although I don't think it serves much of a purpose for the 99% of the kids that will never play international soccer.

The bigger issue is limiting players' ability / opportunity to play with other teams to gain more minutes (from even within their own club). The USWNT doesn't have a problem with that, so why should US Soccer?
Great point.. I want to hear an argument why its ok for the USWNT but the DA.
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  #96  
Old 05-30-18, 10:33 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Great point.. I want to hear an argument why its ok for the USWNT but the DA.
I would say it's because they grown women that know what they should and should not be doing when it comes to training. A 12 year old does not. Allowing them to play and/or train with other clubs could be undoing everything they are being taught with the DA. It also could be straining their bodies by playing too much, especially if it's not productive play. The DA keeps close tabs on all time players spend playing soccer. You let them go with other places to play you have no idea what they are doing and if it's even beneficial to their development. Again, players on the USWNT are grown women that can be trusted (or at least should be).

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  #97  
Old 05-30-18, 11:26 AM
coachg coachg is offline
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DA is not just 12 year olds. They have 17 year olds and 18s also. Are you saying they dont know either?
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  #98  
Old 05-30-18, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
DA is not just 12 year olds. They have 17 year olds and 18s also. Are you saying they dont know either?
They are still very susceptible to what the adults around them are telling them to do. Many at that age are unwilling to go against what an adult is telling them to do either due to fear of consequences, ignorance, or just blind faith in the idea that adults always know better.

So yes, I think the DA is correct in asking for full control over their player's development. They want to ensure that what the players are being taught is what they feel is correct. It's not the only option for kids, so for those that think that's to much and disagree with the DA, they can choose a different option.

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  #99  
Old 05-30-18, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
They are still very susceptible to what the adults around them are telling them to do. Many at that age are unwilling to go against what an adult is telling them to do either due to fear of consequences, ignorance, or just blind faith in the idea that adults always know better.

So yes, I think the DA is correct in asking for full control over their player's development. They want to ensure that what the players are being taught is what they feel is correct. It's not the only option for kids, so for those that think that's to much and disagree with the DA, they can choose a different option.

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I agree there are plenty of options for them but I think the not guest playing for the 17-25 player is a bit much but they do have options.
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  #100  
Old 05-30-18, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
I agree there are plenty of options for them but I think the not guest playing for the 17-25 player is a bit much but they do have options.
Are rosters even that big?

Here is the roster sizes currently listed for both the girls and boys Cincinnati DA teams.

Boys

12u - 26 (should be looked as as 2 teams since kids are split between two teams each week for two separate game played at the same time)
13u - 16
14u - 18

Girls

14u - 17
15u - 17
16/17u - 16
18/19u - 18

I'm not going to take the time to look it up again but the DA has rules on roster sizes, both minimum and maximum. I can't remember exactly what the numbers are for each age group. Of course that is just the numbers for Cincinnati, but I've got to think all of the DA teams will have similar roster sizes.

They also have a minimum percentage of games every rostered kid must start each season. I believe it's 25% (again, I don't feel like looking it up). Point is, nobody on any squad is just sitting on the bench picking their nose all season. I will say that the girls side seems to have a lot more kids with very high games started percentages, with one that has started every game. The boys side is much more evenly spread out with starts.

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  #101  
Old 05-30-18, 07:52 PM
Hoosier Parent Hoosier Parent is online now
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Are rosters even that big?

Here is the roster sizes currently listed for both the girls and boys Cincinnati DA teams.

Boys

12u - 26 (should be looked as as 2 teams since kids are split between two teams each week for two separate game played at the same time)
13u - 16
14u - 18

Girls

14u - 17
15u - 17
16/17u - 16
18/19u - 18

I'm not going to take the time to look it up again but the DA has rules on roster sizes, both minimum and maximum. I can't remember exactly what the numbers are for each age group. Of course that is just the numbers for Cincinnati, but I've got to think all of the DA teams will have similar roster sizes.

They also have a minimum percentage of games every rostered kid must start each season. I believe it's 25% (again, I don't feel like looking it up). Point is, nobody on any squad is just sitting on the bench picking their nose all season. I will say that the girls side seems to have a lot more kids with very high games started percentages, with one that has started every game. The boys side is much more evenly spread out with starts.

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I'm confused here's the breakdown of players I counted on each CDA roster with at least 1 game played:
14u - 21
15u - 18
16/17 - 21
18/19 - 23

There's an average of about 5 players per roster with 4 or less games.
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  #102  
Old 05-30-18, 07:57 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I'm confused here's the breakdown of players I counted on each CDA roster with at least 1 game played:
14u - 21
15u - 18
16/17 - 21
18/19 - 23

There's an average of about 5 players per roster with 4 or less games.
I didn't count DP's because they don't get designated until the end of the fall season and even then they don't even get invited to most games, let alone play. They will train more with the DA team but they still play the bulk of their games with the Pre-DA team

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  #103  
Old 05-30-18, 08:09 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I'm confused here's the breakdown of players I counted on each CDA roster with at least 1 game played:
14u - 21
15u - 18
16/17 - 21
18/19 - 23

There's an average of about 5 players per roster with 4 or less games.
Also, you need to be careful with just looking at the roster page stats. I noticed that if a player plays up for a game, that game doesn't get recorded for that player on the roster page. You can see their game minutes in the scorecard for that individual game, but it won't show it as a game played on the team page. There is a 12 that has played the entire season with the 13s, to the point where he is basically a permanent member of the 13u team. Yet he shows no record of playing games with them except in the game scorecards. Point is, the public roster page is good for a general idea of who's doing what, but it's not completely accurate.

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  #104  
Old 05-31-18, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
Also, you need to be careful with just looking at the roster page stats. I noticed that if a player plays up for a game, that game doesn't get recorded for that player on the roster page. You can see their game minutes in the scorecard for that individual game, but it won't show it as a game played on the team page. There is a 12 that has played the entire season with the 13s, to the point where he is basically a permanent member of the 13u team. Yet he shows no record of playing games with them except in the game scorecards. Point is, the public roster page is good for a general idea of who's doing what, but it's not completely accurate.

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One thing being overlooked here connects with my point about not having any way to get players minutes (even with another non-DA team within their club... i.e. CDA Premier): with only 5 substitutes permitted per match and roster sizes greater than 16, by default, one player sits no matter what.
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  #105  
Old 05-31-18, 10:08 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by Snooper View Post
One thing being overlooked here connects with my point about not having any way to get players minutes (even with another non-DA team within their club... i.e. CDA Premier): with only 5 substitutes permitted per match and roster sizes greater than 16, by default, one player sits no matter what.
The younger ages get 7 subs and the older get 5. So looking at the roster sizes, not counting DP's, the only team that would have players that wouldn't play in a game (assuming all players are rostered on game day) would be the 18/19 team. There is still minimum start rules. Every player has to start games. So we are are sitting here upset over 2 players in an entire club that may sit a game? And it's not even the same 2 players every game! This is what we are upset over?

Yet one of the other arguments against the DA is over players not being allowed to play for school. Meanwhile school teams have even bigger rosters most times and they definitely don't play everyone. And since high school doesn't have minimum start rules, you have players that could sit the whole season, let alone a game.

At the end of the day, if this playing time thing is that much of an issue for you and your child, then go to a different club. There are entirely too many options out there for kids to play soccer for people to tear down other's options because it doesn't fit what works for them. This my problem with Yappi. It's a place for everyone to just complain, most times just for the sake of complaining.

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  #106  
Old 05-31-18, 11:05 AM
Snooper Snooper is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
The younger ages get 7 subs and the older get 5. So looking at the roster sizes, not counting DP's, the only team that would have players that wouldn't play in a game (assuming all players are rostered on game day) would be the 18/19 team. There is still minimum start rules. Every player has to start games. So we are are sitting here upset over 2 players in an entire club that may sit a game? And it's not even the same 2 players every game! This is what we are upset over?

Yet one of the other arguments against the DA is over players not being allowed to play for school. Meanwhile school teams have even bigger rosters most times and they definitely don't play everyone. And since high school doesn't have minimum start rules, you have players that could sit the whole season, let alone a game.

At the end of the day, if this playing time thing is that much of an issue for you and your child, then go to a different club. There are entirely too many options out there for kids to play soccer for people to tear down other's options because it doesn't fit what works for them. This my problem with Yappi. It's a place for everyone to just complain, most times just for the sake of complaining.

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We're talking about the Girls DA in general and its issues in the first year, not about any particular club (and the article that Rohbino linked above). The clubs that are leaving for the ECNL have pretty clearly stated that issues associated with substitution and being able to play girls on other teams within the club to provide playing opportunities week to week were major reasons they left.

I am not sure that I see anyone here complaining or saying this is an issue for their child in particular, but rather a problem that the Girls DA does not seem to be addressing (and is causing a pretty significant exit of quality clubs).
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  #107  
Old 05-31-18, 03:15 PM
coachg coachg is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
The younger ages get 7 subs and the older get 5. So looking at the roster sizes, not counting DP's, the only team that would have players that wouldn't play in a game (assuming all players are rostered on game day) would be the 18/19 team. There is still minimum start rules. Every player has to start games. So we are are sitting here upset over 2 players in an entire club that may sit a game? And it's not even the same 2 players every game! This is what we are upset over?

Yet one of the other arguments against the DA is over players not being allowed to play for school. Meanwhile school teams have even bigger rosters most times and they definitely don't play everyone. And since high school doesn't have minimum start rules, you have players that could sit the whole season, let alone a game.

At the end of the day, if this playing time thing is that much of an issue for you and your child, then go to a different club. There are entirely too many options out there for kids to play soccer for people to tear down other's options because it doesn't fit what works for them. This my problem with Yappi. It's a place for everyone to just complain, most times just for the sake of complaining.

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  #108  
Old 06-04-18, 02:27 AM
soccer21stcentury soccer21stcentury is offline
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Committed DA players moving over to ECNL

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Originally Posted by coachg View Post
Well word on the street is OE players have been spotted at other clubs training sessions also. yawn Your feeble attempts are amusing!! Every year this happens at all clubs but yet you act like CNN with your fake news and pretend its the end of the world for all other clubs.
DA players already committed to D1 colleges are coming over to OE and securing roster spots from current ECNL players in 2018-19. due to dissatisfaction with the DA infrastructure. D1 committed ECNL players getting sat down or moved down to make room for the DA players will be on the market. Also, Several current 01 ECNL players in the class of 2019 and 2020 are still uncommitted that came over to OE from Dayton area clubs?
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  #109  
Old 06-04-18, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by soccer21stcentury View Post
DA players already committed to D1 colleges are coming over to OE and securing roster spots from current ECNL players in 2018-19. due to dissatisfaction with the DA infrastructure. D1 committed ECNL players getting sat down or moved down to make room for the DA players will be on the market. Also, Several current 01 ECNL players in the class of 2019 and 2020 are still uncommitted that came over to OE from Dayton area clubs?
Not sure your source on this. Maybe one for the 01's, can't be many more on the 02's. I don't think there are many girls anticipating getting cut.

Last edited by Hoosier Parent; 06-04-18 at 08:37 PM..
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  #110  
Old 06-04-18, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by soccer21stcentury View Post
DA players already committed to D1 colleges are coming over to OE and securing roster spots from current ECNL players in 2018-19. due to dissatisfaction with the DA infrastructure. D1 committed ECNL players getting sat down or moved down to make room for the DA players will be on the market. Also, Several current 01 ECNL players in the class of 2019 and 2020 are still uncommitted that came over to OE from Dayton area clubs?
Yeah there may be lots of DA players coming over and trying out but it's not to replace the 01 or 02 ECNL girls.
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  #111  
Old 06-04-18, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
Not sure your source on this. Maybe one for the 01's, can't be many more on the 02's. I don't think there are many girls anticipating getting cut.
Why cut a committed player?
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  #112  
Old 06-04-18, 09:44 PM
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Not many anticipating getting recruited this late if you are a 2019. Just playing for fun at this point.
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  #113  
Old 06-04-18, 09:47 PM
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Yeah there may be lots of DA players coming over and trying out but it's not to replace the 01 or 02 ECNL girls.
Where do you place them if not on a already full ECNL Roster?
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  #114  
Old 06-05-18, 06:23 AM
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Your arguments are based on a lot on conjecture. Are we using commitement as a measure of the strength of a player? I get in that in general good players generate interest earlier, but both the 01's and 02's were put together at U16 putting them a little behind in terms of exposure and competitive experience.

The notion that Doug or Tim wouldn't cut a committed player over an uncommitted player. I'm comfortable in saying that's unfounded.

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  #115  
Old 06-05-18, 09:28 AM
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Your arguments are based on a lot on conjecture. Are we using commitement as a measure of the strength of a player? I get in that in general good players generate interest earlier, but both the 01's and 02's were put together at U16 putting them a little behind in terms of exposure and competitive experience.

The notion that Doug or Tim wouldn't cut a committed player over an uncommitted player. I'm comfortable in saying that's unfounded.
D1 schools are committing players that are the strongest and a good fit for their program. They donít have scholarship money to waste on players that canít play at that level. Soccer players have to be able to standout in their position. How many years of playing at the competitive level do these players need to get committed D1? These players have had more than enough exposure. Excuses.
.
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  #116  
Old 06-05-18, 09:46 AM
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D1 schools are committing players that are the strongest and a good fit for their program. They donít have scholarship money to waste on players that canít play at that level. Soccer players have to be able to standout in their position. How many years of playing at the competitive level do these players need to get committed D1? These players have had more than enough exposure. Excuses.
.
I'm familiar with the process, maybe just confused on your understanding of it and how it affects the selection process at OE.

I have found there lots of reasons girls don't commit D1 until into their senior year, even Power 5. Academic fit and late bloomers are two simple reasons. If you watch the Topdrawer commitment postings you'll see there have been at least 8-10 2018 D1 commits as late as last week.

To be clear, are you suggesting that there is going to be significant movement on the 01/02 ECNL teams based in part on the commitment status of players? Are you suggesting that you have personal insight that there will be significant migration with those teams at all, or is this conjecture?
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  #117  
Old 06-05-18, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoosier Parent View Post
I'm familiar with the process, maybe just confused on your understanding of it and how it affects the selection process at OE.

I have found there lots of reasons girls don't commit D1 until into their senior year, even Power 5. Academic fit and late bloomers are two simple reasons. If you watch the Topdrawer commitment postings you'll see there have been at least 8-10 2018 D1 commits as late as last week.

To be clear, are you suggesting that there is going to be significant movement on the 01/02 ECNL teams based in part on the commitment status of players? Are you suggesting that you have personal insight that there will be significant migration with those teams at all, or is this conjecture?

There will be movement on the 01 ECNL team if for no other than the girls on the 00 coming down. One would have to assume that the kids that have yet to be committed will be the first to be relegated to the 2nd team. You can only have so many on a roster .
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  #118  
Old 06-05-18, 02:24 PM
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Really, what age group? It's hard tell how many came to OE because they were going to be pre-DA and how many just wanted to play HS. I presume the sisters just wanted to play HS. There was a girl on the 01's who was going to be Pre-DA and went back to CDA in December.
The girl went back to the CDA because she was not getting enough playing time on the 01 ECNL. Way too much time and money to waste.
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  #119  
Old 06-05-18, 02:28 PM
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So since this is DA's first year I dont believe many have left to go to OE and you are speculating on who will move over based on hearsay. I guess its easier to give an opinion rather than facts. Also, I know that several OE ECNL kids that tried out for DA but were not given an offer. So I guess I am really unsure what point you are trying to prove without stating facts.
A DA girl that is committed to Minnesota LD is coming over to the ECNL next season.
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  #120  
Old 06-05-18, 02:32 PM
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A DA girl that is committed to Minnesota LD is coming over to the ECNL next season.

Not cool 21
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