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  #1  
Old 03-08-19, 10:35 AM
radiodaveagain radiodaveagain is offline
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Does Ohio Need A Shot Clock?

Does Ohio Need A Shot Clock?
https://statelinesportsnetwork.net/2...d-a-shot-clock

Van Wert 27 Defiance 25 OT
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  #2  
Old 03-08-19, 10:40 AM
NewJacketCity NewJacketCity is offline
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Wow. I'm not sure how feasible it is from a fiscal standpoint for schools, but I've thought for a while it would add a lot to the game to add one.
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  #3  
Old 03-08-19, 11:00 AM
I love cheeseburgers I love cheeseburgers is online now
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schools would have a hard time getting qualified people to run it. Our school has a hard time getting people to do the normal clock now.
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  #4  
Old 03-08-19, 11:01 AM
Trailsendcustom Trailsendcustom is offline
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The shot clock will not fix low scoring. They have it in the NCAA. These are all D1 athletes and look at the score from a game on 2/2/2019.

15 Virginia Tech 47
NC State 24 Final
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  #5  
Old 03-08-19, 11:07 AM
thePITman thePITman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewJacketCity View Post
Wow. I'm not sure how feasible it is from a fiscal standpoint for schools, but I've thought for a while it would add a lot to the game to add one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love cheeseburgers View Post
schools would have a hard time getting qualified people to run it. Our school has a hard time getting people to do the normal clock now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
The shot clock will not fix low scoring. They have it in the NCAA. These are all D1 athletes and look at the score from a game on 2/2/2019.

15 Virginia Tech 47
NC State 24 Final
All of these.

1. $$$
2. Finding qualified personnel.
3. The game actually gets worse. Queue the, "But it's more exiting to watch kids dribble faster and shoot more!"

Picture the end-of-quarter scenario of running the clock down just to chuck up an ill-advised 3-pointer... now picture that happening every 45 seconds. Defensive strategy will change to pack it in for 30 seconds and force that scenario every possession, and offenses will be more likely to attempt to use the whole shot clock when there IS one than if there were none at all.

I wish I had time to go through game film for an entire year and time the average possession time. It's not as much of an issue as people feel. There's a 5-second count for a reason when guarding somebody.
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  #6  
Old 03-08-19, 11:16 AM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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No to the shot clock.
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  #7  
Old 03-08-19, 11:35 AM
3out2in 3out2in is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thePITman View Post
All of these.

1. $$$
2. Finding qualified personnel.
3. The game actually gets worse. Queue the, "But it's more exiting to watch kids dribble faster and shoot more!"

Picture the end-of-quarter scenario of running the clock down just to chuck up an ill-advised 3-pointer... now picture that happening every 45 seconds. Defensive strategy will change to pack it in for 30 seconds and force that scenario every possession, and offenses will be more likely to attempt to use the whole shot clock when there IS one than if there were none at all.

I wish I had time to go through game film for an entire year and time the average possession time. It's not as much of an issue as people feel. There's a 5-second count for a reason when guarding somebody.
Exactly right.
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  #8  
Old 03-08-19, 11:35 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Here we go again......

The clock doesn't mean increased scoring and the facts currently prove this. All the clock does is eliminate (allegedly) the "type of play" that some don't like....

Add those two facts together and now you have the same or less scoring with more (allegedly) movement. The problem with basketball isn't the lack of a shot clock.

The problem with basketball is the kid's inability to put the ball in the basket. That's been in decline for the last 10 years.
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  #9  
Old 03-08-19, 11:40 AM
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Yes to the shot clock, time to get out of the stone age.

If $s are such a problem maybe we should go back to peach baskets fastened to the wall, those are cheaper than metal hoops and glass backboards.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-19, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Trailsendcustom View Post
The shot clock will not fix low scoring. They have it in the NCAA. These are all D1 athletes and look at the score from a game on 2/2/2019.

15 Virginia Tech 47
NC State 24 Final
Thatís a severe outlier and NC St didnít ďstallĒ, they just had an ungodly bad shooting night. Itís a disservice to the kids playing, bc theyíre not developing their skills offensively. The few that have the talent to play in College are behind players from other states.
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  #11  
Old 03-08-19, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Yes to the shot clock, time to get out of the stone age.

If $s are such a problem maybe we should go back to peach baskets fastened to the wall, those are cheaper than metal hoops and glass backboards.
Hell bring back the Chuck Taylors and short shorts too. Honestly, itís not all that difft from the real ending in Hoosiers where Milan/Hickory holds the ball for the last 50 secs before scoring the final basket.
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  #12  
Old 03-08-19, 12:12 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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If you implemented a shot clock, it would get worse before it got better. But in the long run, it helps to develop a more complete basketball player.

What once were forced shots and terrible shot selections turns into players that are capable of producing their own offense in situations that warrant it. It takes time, but it's for the betterment of the game and the player.
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  #13  
Old 03-08-19, 12:17 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Here we go again......

The clock doesn't mean increased scoring and the facts currently prove this. All the clock does is eliminate (allegedly) the "type of play" that some don't like....

Add those two facts together and now you have the same or less scoring with more (allegedly) movement. The problem with basketball isn't the lack of a shot clock.

The problem with basketball is the kid's inability to put the ball in the basket. That's been in decline for the last 10 years.
Yes, here we go again...

You constantly mention that argument about "increasing scoring" as the reason to implement a shot clock, yet continue to say that kids can't put the ball in the basket.

You don't think kids games evolve knowing they can't run a 2.5 minute set and hold the ball for the perfect shot? If you're put in a position to have to shoot every 35/40 seconds, it also develops the skills to be able to pull that off.

Yes, it would take some time, but THAT'S the intent. It would force kids to get better on the offensive side of the ball. You are destroying your own argument.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-19, 12:35 PM
luvhsfb luvhsfb is offline
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Just my opinion,Leave the Game like it Is!!
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  #15  
Old 03-08-19, 12:58 PM
kingpin2010 kingpin2010 is online now
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Need? No
Would I and many like? Yes.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-19, 01:08 PM
Vike16 Vike16 is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
Yes, here we go again...

You constantly mention that argument about "increasing scoring" as the reason to implement a shot clock, yet continue to say that kids can't put the ball in the basket.

You don't think kids games evolve knowing they can't run a 2.5 minute set and hold the ball for the perfect shot? If you're put in a position to have to shoot every 35/40 seconds, it also develops the skills to be able to pull that off.

Yes, it would take some time, but THAT'S the intent. It would force kids to get better on the offensive side of the ball. You are destroying your own argument.

People act like these kids can't handle the learning curve of a shot clock. I'm not saying a shot clock will make teams score more but develop.

I been to at least 12 games this year and maybe 4 of them was stall ball type games. IMHO stall ball is not basketball and should not be allowed in high school basketball

I had a guy tell me that high school basketball is not for the fans and we don't need a shot clock. I was like why are they charging me $7 to get into the game in this brand new 3,000 seat arena lol
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  #17  
Old 03-08-19, 01:13 PM
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Well I'd love it. Tired of seeing teams try to play stall ball vs us. Mentor would be even more lethal if teams were forced to get into their offenses quickly. Stall ball is boring


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  #18  
Old 03-08-19, 01:51 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I'm just tired of the people who say that teams should be able to play a methodical style to be competitive, but in the same breath say that kids lack offensive skills, and then refuse to accept any correlation between the two.

Frankly, they don't know what they're talking about and it's the layman's view (aka don't have a clue) of the "scoring" argument about the shot clock. Or they point to "scoring stats" as "proof" of their argument. They completely miss the point. It's quite entertaining.
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  #19  
Old 03-08-19, 02:02 PM
Blondie Blondie is offline
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No. Learn to play defense! Get a five seconds call! I'm tired of these loaded offensive teams crying because other teams play stall ball. Learn to play defense and get the ball back or get a five seconds call. Geez. It's basketball. Just because the NBA has it, hs should have it. NOPE! The NBA is not basketball. It's a travel league!
Basketball has offense and defense!
Thank God they call traveling in hs and college!
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  #20  
Old 03-08-19, 02:07 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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I don't buy into the argument for 1) scoring more or 2) not playing defense. At its core, it's not really about either of those things. It's about developing better and more basketball skills.
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  #21  
Old 03-08-19, 02:20 PM
JAB JAB is offline
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Originally Posted by Blondie View Post
No. Learn to play defense! Get a five seconds call! I'm tired of these loaded offensive teams crying because other teams play stall ball. Learn to play defense and get the ball back or get a five seconds call. Geez. It's basketball. Just because the NBA has it, hs should have it. NOPE! The NBA is not basketball. It's a travel league!
Basketball has offense and defense!
Thank God they call traveling in hs and college!
The NBA is the basketball equivalent to the WWE. It's all about the entertainment.
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  #22  
Old 03-08-19, 02:43 PM
tcgobucks tcgobucks is offline
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Ohio State has played with a shot clock all season and also play 40 minutes instead of 32 like HS and still struggles to get into the 50's. If you can't shoot, you can't shoot. All the shot clock would do would be make you miss shots faster
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  #23  
Old 03-08-19, 03:02 PM
D1nwobb D1nwobb is offline
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Originally Posted by radiodaveagain View Post
Does Ohio Need A Shot Clock?
https://statelinesportsnetwork.net/2...d-a-shot-clock

Van Wert 27 Defiance 25 OT
No.

85 shots (28% shooting) in 36 minutes? No shot clock was going to help that game.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-19, 03:32 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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No.

85 shots (28% shooting) in 36 minutes? No shot clock was going to help that game.
Well, that certainly blows up the "standing around with the ball under their arm" argument doesn't it ?
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  #25  
Old 03-08-19, 03:42 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
It's about developing better and more basketball skills.
High School sports is an extension of the classroom. The student-athletes are playing the game to learn how to work together, learn from each other, and improve themselves.

Different styles of play are good for the game in High School basketball. Legislating away certain styles because fans of one style prefer it over another seems to go against the educational aspect of the sport.

If your concern is that your team may lose a "boring" game, then you need to learn how to play other parts of the game. The great thing about basketball is that the defense ALWAYS has the opportunity to take the ball away from the offense. A shot clock doesn't change that. Instead, it just gives teams with one style of play a reason not to learn any other style.
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  #26  
Old 03-08-19, 03:48 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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Originally Posted by Yappi View Post
High School sports is an extension of the classroom. The student-athletes are playing the game to learn how to work together, learn from each other, and improve themselves.

Different styles of play are good for the game in High School basketball. Legislating away certain styles because fans of one style prefer it over another seems to go against the educational aspect of the sport.

If your concern is that your team may lose a "boring" game, then you need to learn how to play other parts of the game. The great thing about basketball is that the defense ALWAYS has the opportunity to take the ball away from the offense. A shot clock doesn't change that. Instead, it just gives teams with one style of play a reason not to learn any other style.
I don't disagree with the point of your overall post but you must also admit that certain styles of play limit the ability for kids to develop offensive skills.

My theory for kids having less offensive skills (which to me, is obvious in today's HS player), is that more coaches are employing these coaching tactics to save their jobs (ability to compete) vs. doing what's right by the kid (developing skills).

A shot clock would force teaching a more well-rounded skill set. It would force coaches to coach more skills and less systems. A shot clock forces kids to develop shot-making, decision-making, and play-making off the dribble. To me, that's the biggest reason why basketball is so ugly these days in high school.

There are plenty of teams that employ a methodical philosophy on offense in college and still must abide by a shot clock. There's nothing wrong with playing a methodical style (or any style for that matter). But they also have players that have the skill to break down opponents and get themselves or their teammates shots when they need to. A shot clock forces those skills to be necessary.

Last edited by OldSchoolPanther; 03-08-19 at 03:59 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-08-19, 03:56 PM
I love cheeseburgers I love cheeseburgers is online now
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The discipline to hold the ball for multiple minutes is difficult to do. This style of ball keeps under athletic teams in games and keeps them from turning into track meets. No different that football teams running a ball control type offense to limit the opposing teams spread run and gun offenses. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense and that means keeping the ball away from that offense. I watched trotwood last night and they have scored over 100 points in multiple games this year. Very few teams can match up with them. If i'm the opposing coach I would slow that game way down and maybe that would give me a chance. its not exciting to watch but it could give a less athletic team a chance against juggernauts like trotwood.
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  #28  
Old 03-08-19, 04:16 PM
Yappi Yappi is offline
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Originally Posted by OldSchoolPanther View Post
To me, that's the biggest reason why basketball is so ugly these days in high school.
This is where we will disagree. IMO, HS basketball is by far the best level of basketball. NBA is almost unwatchable. Once they get to the NBA Finals, the game is decent but any regular season game is like watching paint dry.

College basketball is still entertaining but lacks the competitiveness of HS basketball. Outside the elite teams (top 10% ~30 teams), it's not too much fun to watch.

High School basketball is great because of the enthusiasm of the kids and the variety of styles of the game. The most entertaining games IMO are when you get two opposite styles playing a game. The push and pull to control the tempo adds to the excitement. A 39-36 game to me is far more interesting than a 99-96 game.
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  #29  
Old 03-08-19, 04:20 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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A 39-36 game to me is far more interesting than a 99-96 game.
And both are possible with a shot clock.

Linking scoring (less or more) to a shot clock is a fallacy. It's intent is to create a more tempoed and flowing game. That doesn't automatically mean more (or less) scoring.

Scoring is independent of the intent. That's what most people don't/won't/refuse to grasp.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-19, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by I love cheeseburgers View Post
The discipline to hold the ball for multiple minutes is difficult to do. This style of ball keeps under athletic teams in games and keeps them from turning into track meets. No different that football teams running a ball control type offense to limit the opposing teams spread run and gun offenses. Sometimes the best defense is a good offense and that means keeping the ball away from that offense. I watched trotwood last night and they have scored over 100 points in multiple games this year. Very few teams can match up with them. If i'm the opposing coach I would slow that game way down and maybe that would give me a chance. its not exciting to watch but it could give a less athletic team a chance against juggernauts like trotwood.
At least football has their own version of a shot clock, the play clock.

But then again from the technical side why can in football a play clock be no problem but in basketball we hear all these apologists say that realistically it would be too tough to pull off a shot clock? It really is a style debate and everything else is just window dressing.
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