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  #61  
Old 03-07-19, 11:35 PM
Kballer Kballer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCLFan99 View Post
A large majority of the kids they "recruit" are smart, non athletic students. That actually describes a large % of the student population. If student population equated to athletic success then Oak Hills should be a power every year.

Now that we have put the school population argument aside (one the Elder posters in particular love to raise) why has St X struggled in basketball the past ten years.

It comes down to three potential reasons.

1. Talented basketball players are not drawn to St X
2. Talented basketball players attend St X but don't play basketball
3. Poor coaching

In the past ten years here is the breakdown of number of 1st and 2nd team GCL selections for each school

Moeller 24 20
LaSalle 19 18
Elder 12 16
St X 11 12

So St X has had the least number of first team and second team selections. So it appears they have less talent

Here is the breakdown of coach of the year selections

Moe 7
LaSalle 5
Elder 2
St X 0

There were 12 selections in ten years because in '15 and '16 there was a three way tie between Moe LaSalle and Elder

So it appears again St X is lacking versus its GCL peers

So less talent and not as good of coaching.

Lets hope they make a great hire and turn the ship around
Just a note on this: I believe league voting for all-conference teams is based on the teams league standing. The top team gets the most selections named to the all star team and the bottom team gets the least. Many conferences handle it this way. Have seen kids with better stats who are more talented lose out to lessor players form other teams because their team had hit their quota.
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  #62  
Old 03-08-19, 12:08 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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I think a lot of people are over complicating what's going on at X. It's not the school, the student body, or any of that. X simply has a coaching problem.

I've seen what looked like a coach in the end stages of his tenure/career and him looking like a guy tired of coaching. This attitude then translated to his teams and how they played, resulting in less competitive teams. Players eventually caught on to this and you saw less effort from them and players just not coming out to play. As the program deteriorated with players not wanting to play for it, he ultimately parted ways with them and a new coach was hired.

The new coach went against the grain to many but what he did do is bring a new enthusiasm to the program. They weren't immediate world beaters, but they at least became more competitive. Problem is no one has any patience anymore, and it takes patience to allow a program to be built once it's been destroyed. So instead of them accepting the slight increase in performance and allowing him to build up the program, even though they were still average, they cut him and thus fell into the coaching carousel trap.

It takes time to build a program once it's been torn down. There is no magic sauce. It takes time for a coach to get his people within the program to help echo his values. It takes time to change the way the players think and play until they buy in to what's being sold. Then once that has some time to marinate, you begin to see more talent migrate into the program to finish off the progress. It's not until then will you see sustained success. That doesn't happen overnight. With each new coach you keep hitting the reset button on the whole process.

In short, St X needs a coach and patience.

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  #63  
Old 03-08-19, 12:26 AM
BASESWIMPARENT BASESWIMPARENT is offline
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Philly Cat is correct about Martin but Martin's replacement was let go for teaching issues not basketball issues. This year's coach was a temporary situation (although some coaches in other sports at X thought he could have been a permanent replacement). Find someone with out of season basketball connections who has a good philosophy and he will attract the players. It can be done.
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  #64  
Old 03-08-19, 12:31 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BASESWIMPARENT View Post
Philly Cat is correct about Martin but Martin's replacement was let go for teaching issues not basketball issues. This year's coach was a temporary situation (although some coaches in other sports at X thought he could have been a permanent replacement). Find someone with out of season basketball connections who has a good philosophy and he will attract the players. It can be done.
I did not know it was teaching issues. If you ask me, St X is a job that should be enticing for a top coach. Some say why would someone want to go to a place at the bottom, especially when they have a great thing where they are at. Well some people like the challenge of building and the sense of accomplishment that comes with it. X is a place with the resources and potential talent to make it a situation with a ton of upside for any coach (yes I said any) regardless of where it's at right now.

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  #65  
Old 03-08-19, 07:08 AM
Ballin50 Ballin50 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big_blue_fan View Post
Hearing Brook Cupps of Centerville is a candidate as well. Has a son who will be a freshman that played with Bronny James for NCBC...could be a candidate for the Lakers too
Love the thought of this! I'm sure Middletown is kicking themselves in the rear when they gave the job to Andrews instead of Cupps a few years back.... Cupps to St.X would be awesome. No doubt in my mind he would get them back to relevance!
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  #66  
Old 03-08-19, 07:24 AM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballin50 View Post
Love the thought of this! I'm sure Middletown is kicking themselves in the rear when they gave the job to Andrews instead of Cupps a few years back.... Cupps to St.X would be awesome. No doubt in my mind he would get them back to relevance!
I believe his post was sarcasm... Cupps is not leaving Centerville.
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  #67  
Old 03-08-19, 08:43 AM
Bballer05 Bballer05 is offline
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Originally Posted by ThePrepGuru View Post
I like your profile of what they should be looking for. Assuming he is retired from teaching, wouldn't Mike Price be a great candidate? He checks all of your boxes. Thoughts?
Price has best gig ever at Oak Hills. he's not leaving there.
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  #68  
Old 03-08-19, 02:46 PM
OldSchoolPanther OldSchoolPanther is offline
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St X is a diamond in the rough. Agreement on a couple things in this thread:

1) Coach focused and committed to off-season selling of program and player development/training - you can absolutely find kids willing to commit to a coach and his off-season regiment with a plan that shows them a path to success, especially kids in the GCL. Players are made in the off-season.
2) Time - you have to give a few years minimum for cultural aspects to change. Changing every 1-2 years is futile and will never right itself.
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  #69  
Old 03-08-19, 03:08 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bballer05 View Post
Price has best gig ever at Oak Hills. he's not leaving there.
Bingo--over 400 wins--getting close to his retirement years in STRS--has the kids play the way he wants them to with solid defense and patient offense, but not afraid to use the "3" as a weapon--very good assistant coaches committed to OH success--off season AAU program
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  #70  
Old 03-13-19, 04:18 PM
OH Hoops Fan OH Hoops Fan is offline
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Any update on who St X is looking at or bringing in for interviews? or Maybe they are waiting for certain schools/Head Coach to finish up their season
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  #71  
Old 03-14-19, 10:53 AM
voice_of_reason voice_of_reason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cincyhoops View Post
Doubt there is any chance of someone without head coaching experience getting the job.
Did the current "interim" coach have head coaching experience?
The current JV Head Coach has won big on the JV level, at St X.

Many of the current players and parents really like Coach Cook.
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  #72  
Old 03-14-19, 11:00 AM
cincyhoops cincyhoops is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voice_of_reason View Post
Did the current "interim" coach have head coaching experience?
The current JV Head Coach has won big on the JV level, at St X.

Many of the current players and parents really like Coach Cook.
Ok. I could be wrong. But I highly doubt he gets the job.
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  #73  
Old 03-14-19, 03:33 PM
Carl Rick Carl Rick is offline
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Here are 6 potential in no particular order: Nozka, Neal, Cupps, Kerr, Fleming, & Higgins
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  #74  
Old 03-14-19, 03:57 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
Here are 6 potential in no particular order: Nozka, Neal, Cupps, Kerr, Fleming, & Higgins
Cupps go to X, and in the near future the X program is talked about in the same way as the Moeller program and is just as dominant.


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  #75  
Old 03-14-19, 07:27 PM
birdog birdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
Here are 6 potential in no particular order: Nozka, Neal, Cupps, Kerr, Fleming, & Higgins
As a Moeller fan I would like to suggest LaVar Ball. GBM
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  #76  
Old 03-14-19, 07:52 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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I can't believe that Cupps would seriously entertain the thought of leaving Centerville for anywhere. They are loaded in the junior high and freshman groups with the type of talent that probably gives him multiple shots to go to state. Centerville is a higher paying public district, and he'd likely have huge negative retirement implications going anywhere else, especially a private school.

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  #77  
Old 03-14-19, 09:01 PM
Fan4life! Fan4life! is offline
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Would Sorensen from Catholic Central go? Or Embry from northwestern?
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  #78  
Old 03-14-19, 09:20 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
I can't believe that Cupps would seriously entertain the thought of leaving Centerville for anywhere. They are loaded in the junior high and freshman groups with the type of talent that probably gives him multiple shots to go to state. Centerville is a higher paying public district, and he'd likely have huge negative retirement implications going anywhere else, especially a private school.

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100% correct warrior
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  #79  
Old 03-15-19, 09:18 AM
Kurt Rambis Kurt Rambis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rick View Post
Here are 6 potential in no particular order: Nozka, Neal, Cupps, Kerr, Fleming, & Higgins

I think it's Nozka or someone NOT ON the list...

Neal is overrated. Not sure he's well liked anywhere.
Cupps....He's better off at centerville in every way.
Kerr has too much baggage.
Fleming...I would love it, but he's not ready to get back in it yet.
Higgins...is very good...but would be his 4th school in 7 years?
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  #80  
Old 03-15-19, 10:03 AM
chlnewbie chlnewbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Rambis View Post
I think it's Nozka or someone NOT ON the list...



Neal is overrated. Not sure he's well liked anywhere.

Cupps....He's better off at centerville in every way.

Kerr has too much baggage.

Fleming...I would love it, but he's not ready to get back in it yet.

Higgins...is very good...but would be his 4th school in 7 years?
The Kerr has to much baggage comment always comes up like the sun! What baggage.. his teams win to much, he's to hard on today's softies... Or let me guess, the alleged story that was so hidius that he never got to coaching job again? Oh wait he did get another job, and another job, and another one after that! In my opinion St X needs Kerr more than he needs them!
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  #81  
Old 03-15-19, 10:38 AM
Jerry Maguire Jerry Maguire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chlnewbie View Post
The Kerr has to much baggage comment always comes up like the sun! What baggage.. his teams win to much, he's to hard on today's softies... Or let me guess, the alleged story that was so hidius that he never got to coaching job again? Oh wait he did get another job, and another job, and another one after that! In my opinion St X needs Kerr more than he needs them!
Learn how to spell
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  #82  
Old 03-15-19, 11:57 AM
chlnewbie chlnewbie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerry Maguire View Post
Learn how to spell
Right on that computer cop warrior!
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  #83  
Old 03-15-19, 12:01 PM
CometCountry CometCountry is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Rambis View Post
I think it's Nozka or someone NOT ON the list...

Neal is overrated. Not sure he's well liked anywhere.
Cupps....He's better off at centerville in every way.
Kerr has too much baggage.
Fleming...I would love it, but he's not ready to get back in it yet.
Higgins...is very good...but would be his 4th school in 7 years?
Ryan Fleming (OH JV coach) much more likely to apply for St. X job than Dad Dan who still has daughter in HS and son playing at Bellermine
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  #84  
Old 03-15-19, 07:34 PM
bobcat44 bobcat44 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fan4life! View Post
Would Sorensen from Catholic Central go? Or Embry from northwestern?
lol what has Sarenson done besides walk into a great situation. Can he really coach? Lost to to any decent team they played. Blown out two years in a row at regional semis after cakewalk there. Embry is happy at NW
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  #85  
Old 03-15-19, 08:03 PM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Originally Posted by Jerry Maguire View Post
Learn how to spell
Lol lol lol Oh, you forgot your punctuation.
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  #86  
Old 03-15-19, 08:04 PM
Fan4life! Fan4life! is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcat44 View Post
lol what has Sarenson done besides walk into a great situation. Can he really coach? Lost to to any decent team they played. Blown out two years in a row at regional semis after cakewalk there. Embry is happy at NW
Not sure what you mean he walked into a great situation?! From what I read, when he started, the year before, the team won 7-8 games. This year, they only had 5 guys that could play at the varsity level. Team they lost to last year won state and it looks like this year's team could too. It's hard to go deep in the tournament with only 5 guys. So for them to get to this point with only 5 is impressive in any division. Especially to go 2 years in a row at a Catholic school that struggles to stay open in Springfield. And there was no recruiting involved. I'd say that qualifies.
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  #87  
Old 03-15-19, 08:26 PM
bobcat44 bobcat44 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fan4life! View Post
Not sure what you mean he walked into a great situation?! From what I read, when he started, the year before, the team won 7-8 games. This year, they only had 5 guys that could play at the varsity level. Team they lost to last year won state and it looks like this year's team could too. It's hard to go deep in the tournament with only 5 guys. So for them to get to this point with only 5 is impressive in any division. Especially to go 2 years in a row at a Catholic school that struggles to stay open in Springfield. And there was no recruiting involved. I'd say that qualifies.
Marion Local and St Henry blew them out. Games were not close. The Harris kid was probably recruited which is fine but come on two years with kids that were not his. Sarenson would not get an interview @X
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  #88  
Old 03-15-19, 08:32 PM
Fan4life! Fan4life! is offline
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Originally Posted by bobcat44 View Post
Marion Local and St Henry blew them out. Games were not close. The Harris kid was probably recruited which is fine but come on two years with kids that were not his. Sarenson would not get an interview @X
I'd think those teams would win knowing the have way more numbers and resources than Central does. Heck, the middle school coaches at those programs probably get paid more than Sarenson. Kids that weren't his? He's been there 3 years, not 2. This is also high school not college, you work with what you have.
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  #89  
Old 03-15-19, 08:32 PM
nwwarrior09 nwwarrior09 is offline
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He's had a program that's largely been carried by this year's senior class his three years there. I think he's done a good job, but this was definitely a good situation going in. SCC's seniors this year are the best class they've had in a while. The Doolittle kid is the best player they've had in their last 8 or 9 graduating classes, by a lot.

I really don't see him leaving this area anyway. At least not any time soon.

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  #90  
Old 03-15-19, 08:39 PM
Fan4life! Fan4life! is offline
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Originally Posted by nwwarrior09 View Post
He's had a program that's largely been carried by this year's senior class his three years there. I think he's done a good job, but this was definitely a good situation going in. SCC's seniors this year are the best class they've had in a while. The Doolittle kid is the best player they've had in their last 8 or 9 graduating classes, by a lot.

I really don't see him leaving this area anyway. At least not any time soon.

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So he's staying at SCC?
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