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  #181  
Old 03-14-19, 11:19 AM
catscatscats catscatscats is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
Some refs call the fouls when they see them, regardless of how much time is left. I do not think that the rule book specifies times. Coach Brook Cupps should have reigned this behavior in a long time ago.
We know it doesnít specify times. Marchel just comed off as a fiery player some may take it as cocky others may take it as a jerk. Seems like he just loves the game and goes all out to win. You would know more about the Elks program then me though
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  #182  
Old 03-14-19, 11:20 AM
BucksFan937 BucksFan937 is offline
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Originally Posted by catscatscats View Post
All Iíll say is if he gets to play Princenton should be irrate over what happened to Bazley last season
You could be right, and I don't think they will change anything. I'm only putting my opinion out there on what I saw in that video as that was pretty bad.
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  #183  
Old 03-14-19, 11:33 AM
maravich maravich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
Some refs call the fouls when they see them, regardless of how much time is left. I do not think that the rule book specifies times. Coach Brook Cupps should have reigned this behavior in a long time ago.
another laughable, anti-Centerville, anti-Cupps post from HardCorps.

There was no "foul", technical or otherwise, for refs to "see".

HardCorps goes on and on how "tough" and "hard nosed" Trotwood teams are and Springfield teams under Carson....but Centerville has to "reign in" a player that is tough and hard nosed???
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  #184  
Old 03-14-19, 11:39 AM
DonJuanDeMarco DonJuanDeMarco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
Some refs call the fouls when they see them, regardless of how much time is left. I do not think that the rule book specifies times. Coach Brook Cupps should have reigned this behavior in a long time ago.
The problem with this idea is that there would have to be a foul to be seen.
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  #185  
Old 03-14-19, 12:08 PM
StSebastian StSebastian is offline
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Originally Posted by DonJuanDeMarco View Post
The problem with this idea is that there would have to be a foul to be seen.
If you look closely... on the 2nd technical, the official in the frame behind the play even looks like he says... "I didn't see it" as the other runs in...

The one that comes in had to have seen something different but also had a bad angle given where he SHOULD have been in rotation. The clip clearly shows no foul. The call was completely an assumption that something happened... but even then... does what it looks like (slapping the ball out of his hands) warrant a T?
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  #186  
Old 03-14-19, 12:59 PM
JElder JElder is offline
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Originally Posted by StSebastian View Post
If you look closely... on the 2nd technical, the official in the frame behind the play even looks like he says... "I didn't see it" as the other runs in...

The one that comes in had to have seen something different but also had a bad angle given where he SHOULD have been in rotation. The clip clearly shows no foul. The call was completely an assumption that something happened... but even then... does what it looks like (slapping the ball out of his hands) warrant a T?
If you already have 1 T doing something like that is dumb and he took an unnecessary risk. I don't agree with the call but he shouldn't have put himself in that position.
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  #187  
Old 03-14-19, 01:43 PM
Talk some sense Talk some sense is offline
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HardOn give it up - are you a Staley?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
Some refs call the fouls when they see them, regardless of how much time is left. I do not think that the rule book specifies times. Coach Brook Cupps should have reigned this behavior in a long time ago.
There wasn't anything to see . Go have a look at the video.
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  #188  
Old 03-14-19, 03:05 PM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Originally Posted by jelder View Post
if you already have 1 t doing something like that is dumb and he took an unnecessary risk. I don't agree with the call but he shouldn't have put himself in that position.
bingo.
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  #189  
Old 03-14-19, 03:14 PM
HardCorps HardCorps is offline
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Originally Posted by maravich View Post
another laughable, anti-Centerville, anti-Cupps post from HardCorps.

There was no "foul", technical or otherwise, for refs to "see".

HardCorps goes on and on how "tough" and "hard nosed" Trotwood teams are and Springfield teams under Carson....but Centerville has to "reign in" a player that is tough and hard nosed???
When I say that TM is tough the statement has nothing to do with talking trash or taking the ball out of the opponents hands. I watched TM at Flyíin to The Hoop two years ago. The game should have been a mismatch as the other team was ranked 7th nationally and had division 1 players and excellent players backing them up. That team jumped out to a sizable lead with dunks etc. TM was as dialed in as they were at the beginning all of the way to the end. No crap, just taking care of business. That is tough Ďmindedí and hard nosed.
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  #190  
Old 03-15-19, 06:31 AM
AIK Solna AIK Solna is offline
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Per the Dayton Daily News, OHSAA upheld the suspension.
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  #191  
Old 03-15-19, 07:17 AM
strickly_layups strickly_layups is offline
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With all this technology nowadays one would think that officials should be able to look at video evidence for tournament play. Just too much on the line for human error imo. Tough minded or hard nosed, at the end of the day in the heat of the battle kids with a competitive edge always tote the line!!!! There was no need of a suspension... I'm a fan of the game and the Wildcats.. Its 2019 get out of the Stone Age, add video replay and a dang on SHOT CLOCK!! carry on people
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  #192  
Old 03-15-19, 07:30 AM
member1 member1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardCorps View Post
When I say that TM is tough the statement has nothing to do with talking trash or taking the ball out of the opponents hands. I watched TM at Fly’in to The Hoop two years ago. The game should have been a mismatch as the other team was ranked 7th nationally and had division 1 players and excellent players backing them up. That team jumped out to a sizable lead with dunks etc. TM was as dialed in as they were at the beginning all of the way to the end. No crap, just taking care of business. That is tough ‘minded’ and hard nosed.
There is a difference between "Dirty" and "tough" say what it really is. TM kids are tough, hard nosed, gritty. That is different than being "Dirty", which Centerville teams have often been accused of. I don't know the kid and have not seen him any further than when they played a TM and got beat. He was a solid player, did appear a little firey but nothing out of the ordinary for a scrappy point guard.

But what I did see is those technical fouls the other night. Hey I am not the biggest Cville fan...Really I pull against them most of the time, but dude... Those "T's" were bogus... Both of them. The first was a flop and the second was nothing at all... Just an "excuse me sir, I am heading the other way". I have no dog in the fight at all, but C'mon OHSAA that has to be fixed.

It is kinda of tickling thinking of all the Cville yupps talking about overthrowing the OHSAA and combining their elitist power to fix their community that has been done unjustly I could really care less about that.

But for the kid's sake. He should have not been tossed. If they fix it for him I am good with it.
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  #193  
Old 03-15-19, 08:20 AM
Termite2 Termite2 is offline
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You get one technical, smart people don't do anything to give an official reason to give another, dumb players claim they have been wronged and don't modify their behavior.
Evidently, the referee version of the event was sufficient enough for the OHSAA to uphold the suspension.
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  #194  
Old 03-15-19, 08:44 AM
fisher MAN fisher MAN is offline
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Seems like this is a classic case of referees holding grudges on a player. Based off the video, those Ts were a joke. Was he running his mouth and acting wild during the entire game? Sometimes refs are quick to jump on a kid that’s been acting up all game...
Not saying this was the case (I wasn’t here, so I don’t know), but I’ve seen this happen before. Can anyone that actually saw the entire game (not just the video), provide some insight?
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  #195  
Old 03-15-19, 09:01 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strickly_layups View Post
With all this technology nowadays one would think that officials should be able to look at video evidence for tournament play. Just too much on the line for human error imo. Tough minded or hard nosed, at the end of the day in the heat of the battle kids with a competitive edge always tote the line!!!! There was no need of a suspension... I'm a fan of the game and the Wildcats.. Its 2019 get out of the Stone Age, add video replay and a dang on SHOT CLOCK!! carry on people
There was no human error

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  #196  
Old 03-15-19, 09:21 AM
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MoeDude MoeDude is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StSebastian View Post
If you look closely... on the 2nd technical, the official in the frame behind the play even looks like he says... "I didn't see it" as the other runs in...

The one that comes in had to have seen something different but also had a bad angle given where he SHOULD have been in rotation. The clip clearly shows no foul. The call was completely an assumption that something happened... but even then... does what it looks like (slapping the ball out of his hands) warrant a T?
If he was doing it all night and was warned to knock it off then yes it warrants a "T" especially if he's already been T'd up once. Again, just watching a few seconds doesn't tell the whole story. There were extra curricular activity going on all night. If the refs are guilty of anything its "letting them play" too much in the beginning and then calling it tighter as the game went on. As I mentioned in another thread, in the Moeller/LE game the refs called a tight game from the beginning and both teams handled it well. In the Centerville/Springfield game there was chippy play all night and the refs weren't calling it early but started calling it tighter as the game went on. A player needs to understand how that ebb and tide flows especially one with the experience #0 evidently has. Without viewing the whole game it's tough to make a judgement call on just a few seconds of video.

It's tough to see such a talent get T'd up in such a way, but the young man put himself in the position by not cooling it when it was obvious the refs started calling it tighter.

Last edited by MoeDude; 03-15-19 at 10:42 AM.
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  #197  
Old 03-15-19, 09:22 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by fisher MAN View Post
Seems like this is a classic case of referees holding grudges on a player. Based off the video, those Ts were a joke. Was he running his mouth and acting wild during the entire game? Sometimes refs are quick to jump on a kid thatís been acting up all game...
Not saying this was the case (I wasnít here, so I donít know), but Iíve seen this happen before. Can anyone that actually saw the entire game (not just the video), provide some insight?
I'm not a fan of either team and I gave my personal summary of what I saw happen at the game the evening after the game. This was not a classic case of referees holding grudges (though I don't believe in that theory anyway). This was a classic case of a player that was consistently the common denominator in escalating the tensions in an already tense game. He was being warned to change his behavior, didn't, and eventually received a technical. His behavior still didn't change, he was warned more, and finally ended his night with a 2nd technical foul.

For those that keeping point to the video, context matters. Just pointing to the video ignores the entire rest of the game prior to that incident. Did the Springfield player flop? Without a doubt. Did the Centerville player purposely make line through the Springfield player instead of around him? Yep. But again, context. This happens a few minutes into the 1st quarter and it's nothing and nothing comes of it. But this is coming with a few minutes left in the 4th after a game where one of the players has pushed the line with incident after incident in an effort to escalate tensions. The Centerville player put himself in the position to be removed from the game.

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  #198  
Old 03-15-19, 09:27 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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And something else for the video people. First of all, the first clip in that video is actually the 2nd tech. Those saying "hey, he was just making his way to the free throw line after a foul." Wrong!!! His free throw line is in the opposite direction. As I've stated multiple times. The player specifically makes his way through the opposing player with the only intent of instigation. He did it to himself.

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  #199  
Old 03-15-19, 09:42 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by StSebastian View Post
.. but even then... does what it looks like (slapping the ball out of his hands) warrant a T?
Yes
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  #200  
Old 03-15-19, 09:50 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Yes
I laughed when I read his comment on the ball slapping lol

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  #201  
Old 03-15-19, 09:59 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly_Cat View Post
I laughed when I read his comment on the ball slapping lol

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If an official doesn't address that, the crap storm that follows is on the officials.

T every time it happens.
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  #202  
Old 03-15-19, 10:07 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
You don't address that and the crap storm that follows is on you.
That's what Moedude was pointing to. That was this kids "thing" all game. I can't tell you how many times he was either slapping the ball out of an opposing player's hand or trying to grab the ball from them, all after the the whistle. Referees probably needed to crack down on all of that early to set the tone. Instead they let stuff go early then tried to play clean up at the end after the tension of both teams had gone high.

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  #203  
Old 03-15-19, 10:48 AM
unbiased1 unbiased1 is offline
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In your opinion philly/moedude, was #1 & #4 for the cats acting the same way? They were prodding & talking the whole game.

The worst part, that is flat out embarrassing is when the #1 & #5 kept wedging into Centervilles team huddled at fouls or breaks in action.

Springfield & Wayne are the only 2 teams I’ve seen this from in 10 years. You wonder why kids act so entitled on some teams. I love Carson for Springfield and think he is a great coach, but as a man, a coach, a father, a human being......you know that’s wrong and classless. That’s not being old school either, it’s called mutual respect!
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  #204  
Old 03-15-19, 10:50 AM
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And by the way, I have stated on here #0 was wrong in his antics for Centerville. You have to live with your actions.
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  #205  
Old 03-15-19, 11:23 AM
ELK Strong ELK Strong is offline
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Originally Posted by MoeDude View Post
If he was doing it all night and was warned to knock it off then yes it warrants a "T" especially if he's already been T'd up once. Again, just watching a few seconds doesn't tell the whole story. There were extra curricular activity going on all night. If the refs are guilty of anything its "letting them play" too much in the beginning and then calling it tighter as the game went on. As I mentioned in another thread, in the Moeller/LE game the refs called a tight game from the beginning and both teams handled it well. In the Centerville/Springfield game there was chippy play all night and the refs weren't calling it early but started calling it tighter as the game went on. A player needs to understand how that ebb and tide flows especially one with the experience #0 evidently has. Without viewing the whole game it's tough to make a judgement call on just a few seconds of video.

It's tough to see such a talent get T'd up in such a way, but the young man put himself in the position by not cooling it when it was obvious the refs started calling it tighter.
Unfortunately, I agree here. I like Marchal's fire but it can be borderline disrespectful to the refs and opposing team. I also think the refs should have understood the situation and been more lenient around the 2nd tech call. At the end of the day, he is a SR and should have known better. His lack of restraint will likely cause the Elks a chance to compete vs. Moeller. I am not sure we could win with him, but pretty sure we won't win without him.
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  #206  
Old 03-15-19, 11:33 AM
mike45069 mike45069 is offline
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I am amazed that the referee didn't have the character upon being asked to admit he made a mistake in judgment. Nope, not him, he probably is the perfect official.

Ok, so now that we've established a NEW baseline for a technical foul, can we Please enforce it on all coaches, every minute of every game?

As soon as the Moeller coach throws his arms up to question a foul in the first quarter, I want to see an immediate technical. He does it again, he is gone.

Coaches are always questioning the calls by our perfect officials, and therefore violating the letter of the rulebook and should be given technicals a lot more frequently.

We need way more technicals, according to this being upheld. If what that player did warrants it, then most head coaches won't make it past the 1st quarter. But that's ok, let's make it a point of emphasis for the elite 8 and final 4 to make sure we use that officials' standard of technical. Unreal that we have a state association that has an appeals process that is fake. They've probably never reversed something in their history. If they watch that video.and uphold, then they need all new officials as the rest of the state has not given out nearly enough technicals, not even close. We have a technical shortage problem rampant across the state and I blame all the officials except for the one guy who gave the Centerville point guard both well deserved technicals.
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  #207  
Old 03-15-19, 11:46 AM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by mike45069 View Post
I am amazed that the referee didn't have the character upon being asked to admit he made a mistake in judgment. Nope, not him, he probably is the perfect official.



Ok, so now that we've established a NEW baseline for a technical foul, can we Please enforce it on all coaches, every minute of every game?



As soon as the Moeller coach throws his arms up to question a foul in the first quarter, I want to see an immediate technical. He does it again, he is gone.



Coaches are always questioning the calls by our perfect officials, and therefore violating the letter of the rulebook and should be given technicals a lot more frequently.



We need way more technicals, according to this being upheld. If what that player did warrants it, then most head coaches won't make it past the 1st quarter. But that's ok, let's make it a point of emphasis for the elite 8 and final 4 to make sure we use that officials' standard of technical. Unreal that we have a state association that has an appeals process that is fake. They've probably never reversed something in their history. If they watch that video.and uphold, then they need all new officials as the rest of the state has not given out nearly enough technicals, not even close. We have a technical shortage problem rampant across the state and I blame all the officials except for the one guy who gave the Centerville point guard both well deserved technicals.
By your standard the Centerville bench should have been given a technical a couple of times as well. Then you'd be crying about how that was unfair and how Cupps has been taken advantage of and has had the regional final game stolen from him since he can't coach in it.

I can't keep repeating the word context. That same incident happens at the beginning of the game nothing happens. I mean literally nothing. Maybe each player is talked to but maybe not even that. But this wasn't the beginning of the game. There was almost an entire game of context to be taken into consideration, including the player involved in the incident being warned all game to chill out and already sitting on one tech because of his acting. Are you going to keep ignoring all that?

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  #208  
Old 03-15-19, 11:59 AM
hammer89 hammer89 is offline
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Originally Posted by mike45069 View Post
I am amazed that the referee didn't have the character upon being asked to admit he made a mistake in judgment. Nope, not him, he probably is the perfect official.

Ok, so now that we've established a NEW baseline for a technical foul, can we Please enforce it on all coaches, every minute of every game?

As soon as the Moeller coach throws his arms up to question a foul in the first quarter, I want to see an immediate technical. He does it again, he is gone.

Coaches are always questioning the calls by our perfect officials, and therefore violating the letter of the rulebook and should be given technicals a lot more frequently.

We need way more technicals, according to this being upheld. If what that player did warrants it, then most head coaches won't make it past the 1st quarter. But that's ok, let's make it a point of emphasis for the elite 8 and final 4 to make sure we use that officials' standard of technical. Unreal that we have a state association that has an appeals process that is fake. They've probably never reversed something in their history. If they watch that video.and uphold, then they need all new officials as the rest of the state has not given out nearly enough technicals, not even close. We have a technical shortage problem rampant across the state and I blame all the officials except for the one guy who gave the Centerville point guard both well deserved technicals.
Common misconception about this whole thing. There are no appeals of ejections, or any calls by officials. There is no appeals process for a game. OHSAA bylaws "Protests arising from the decisions and interpretations of the contest playing rules by officials will
not be considered, and those decisions shall be final. The Executive Directorís office does not have
the authority or jurisdiction to order contests replayed, or to overturn decisions of contest officials
regarding the decisions and interpretations of contest playing rules. The decisions and interpretations of the rules by the contest officials are final."
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  #209  
Old 03-15-19, 12:00 PM
Philly_Cat Philly_Cat is offline
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Originally Posted by unbiased1 View Post
In your opinion philly/moedude, was #1 & #4 for the cats acting the same way? They were prodding & talking the whole game.

The worst part, that is flat out embarrassing is when the #1 & #5 kept wedging into Centervilles team huddled at fouls or breaks in action.

Springfield & Wayne are the only 2 teams Iíve seen this from in 10 years. You wonder why kids act so entitled on some teams. I love Carson for Springfield and think he is a great coach, but as a man, a coach, a father, a human being......you know thatís wrong and classless. Thatís not being old school either, itís called mutual respect!
Kinda yes, but honestly for me there was little things here and there with Springfield players but I never felt it was a single player that stood out. On the other hand it did seem like whenever there was some kind of incident #0 was in the midst or usually the center. Both teams made it very clear this was a rivalry game and were bringing their chips on their shoulders. I guess at the end of the end the refs should have tightened up the whole game from the beginning. That might have settled down a lot of what happened at the end. Then again, maybe not.

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  #210  
Old 03-15-19, 12:02 PM
mike45069 mike45069 is offline
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Understand context fully....I really didn't see him playing dirty. Come on. I wasn't there to see either team in game 2 but just stuck around to see 2 great teams. I'm sticking up for the player so Centerville fans don't have to on here.

Yes, by the referee who called the 2 technicals standards, Cupps should have received a technical when he stepped a foot beyond the coaches box. And the Springfield coach too who I believe went a foot beyond the box as well at some point in the game.

Can't use the context argument. If an official thinks it's brewing toward over the line he needs to issue a warning. Why wait until the last few minutes to start calling technicals? According to those opposed to my viewpoint, the thing he did to get the 2nd technical was nowhere near as bad as things he did earlier in the game. I just want the rules applied for all 4 quarters, that's all.

Since the point guards behavior was so outrageously unacceptable, how in the world did my favorite official miss all those should be technicals in the first 3 and a half quarters? The answer is that the game speed up and got a little more physical second half, and that official was probably used to officiating division 4 girls games in Gallipolis. How can you explain his horrendous calls to foul out Springfields 2 best players? I wish guys selected to officiate games like that at least have to officiate d1 games all year, at least the majority of their games.
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