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  #61  
Old 12-20-16, 12:41 PM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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The only aspect of legality here is whether the school has a right to have stricter conduct standards than the legal system. If those in question broke scholarship standards beyond a reasonable doubt their scholarships should be revoked (at the minimum).

There are a lot of athletes I hope my grandsons never try to emulate.
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  #62  
Old 12-20-16, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
The school has it's own level of conduct above the law, which is fine.
I disagree. As a public university, the University of Minnesota has a positive obligation to respect the Constitutional rights of all its students, including members of the football team.

There are way too many students (football players or not) who are having their due process rights violated by their universities, and many universities have been successfully sued.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...sexual-assault

I'm not privy to all of the details on these particular allegations, but I would say it's disappointing the players caved. If someone is guilty of something, then let's prove it in a court of law. These university administrative processes tend to be a joke.
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  #63  
Old 12-22-16, 10:35 PM
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Here come the lawsuits.

http://www.mndaily.com/article/2016/...suits-hearings

Quote:
All 10 players suspended from football activities plan to file lawsuits against “everyone,” including potential suits against the alleged victim-survivor, Lee Hutton — the attorney representing all 10 players — told the Minnesota Daily. He wouldn’t disclose other possible recipients of a suit, but added they would come “pretty soon.”

“We have certain individuals that we believe have infringed on my clients’ constitutional and civil rights, and possibly have provided collusion in other civil conspiracy claims that damaged my clients’ image,” Hutton said.
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  #64  
Old 12-23-16, 04:09 AM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Unless their lawyers are going to claim their clients weren't there or weren't involved, the lawyers are going to defend the players' honor by saying they were only, after saying "may I" of course, getting sloppy fifths, sixths....? Crossing swords?


Mom will be so proud.


There's no "process" required for kicking someone out of your house. Universities have always had some sort of status closer to that, than to a business, which of course could also kick you out if you were running train in the produce aisle.
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  #65  
Old 12-23-16, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
There's no "process" required for kicking someone out of your house. Universities have always had some sort of status closer to that, than to a business, which of course could also kick you out if you were running train in the produce aisle.
You are absolutely incorrect. The University of Minnesota is a unit of the State of Minnesota, and that makes it very different than your house or your local grocery store.
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  #66  
Old 12-23-16, 01:20 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerWildcat View Post
I disagree. As a public university, the University of Minnesota has a positive obligation to respect the Constitutional rights of all its students, including members of the football team.

There are way too many students (football players or not) who are having their due process rights violated by their universities, and many universities have been successfully sued.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...sexual-assault

I'm not privy to all of the details on these particular allegations, but I would say it's disappointing the players caved. If someone is guilty of something, then let's prove it in a court of law. These university administrative processes tend to be a joke.
This may be true, but after the players actually read what happened (that's a whole other conversation), they quickly backpedaled from their original stance. I think over last weekend, there was alot of parents who spoke to their kids and asked them if they were really going to give up everything for the dumb actions of a few teammates.

This issue here isn't decided in the court of law, Minnesota does not want their student athletes acting like this. Period. I'm sure somewhere in the athletic code of conduct, it clearly states that you don't do this kind of stuff. And I always say being a student athlete is a privilege, not a right.
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  #67  
Old 12-23-16, 02:06 PM
eastisbest eastisbest is offline
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Originally Posted by FormerWildcat View Post
You are absolutely incorrect. The University of Minnesota is a unit of the State of Minnesota, and that makes it very different than your house or your local grocery store.
I was absolutely not incorrect and your second statement has nothing to do with anything else said. I think that's called "strawman" or inability to follow logical reasoning, not sure which in your case.
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  #68  
Old 12-26-16, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by eastisbest View Post
I was absolutely not incorrect and your second statement has nothing to do with anything else said. I think that's called "strawman" or inability to follow logical reasoning, not sure which in your case.
Spare me your passive-aggressive crap.
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  #69  
Old 12-26-16, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
This issue here isn't decided in the court of law, Minnesota does not want their student athletes acting like this. Period. I'm sure somewhere in the athletic code of conduct, it clearly states that you don't do this kind of stuff. And I always say being a student athlete is a privilege, not a right.
The lawsuits are already in process. So, it will certainly be decided one way or the other in court.

http://kstp.com/news/lee-hutton-atto...tball/4348216/

One's due process rights aren't merely a privilege, they are guaranteed by the United States Constitution, and the University of Minnesota can't sanction a student without respecting those rights. Their code of student conduct doesn't magically supersede the Constitution whenever they feel its convenient, and they will find out the hard way in court.
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  #70  
Old 12-27-16, 08:30 AM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerWildcat View Post
The lawsuits are already in process. So, it will certainly be decided one way or the other in court.

http://kstp.com/news/lee-hutton-atto...tball/4348216/

One's due process rights aren't merely a privilege, they are guaranteed by the United States Constitution, and the University of Minnesota can't sanction a student without respecting those rights. Their code of student conduct doesn't magically supersede the Constitution whenever they feel its convenient, and they will find out the hard way in court.
So, are you stating that IF they willingly signed a scholarship offer with a "code of conduct" clause their signature means nothing?
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  #71  
Old 12-27-16, 08:33 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
This may be true, but after the players actually read what happened (that's a whole other conversation), they quickly backpedaled from their original stance. I think over last weekend, there was alot of parents who spoke to their kids and asked them if they were really going to give up everything for the dumb actions of a few teammates.

This issue here isn't decided in the court of law, Minnesota does not want their student athletes acting like this. Period. I'm sure somewhere in the athletic code of conduct, it clearly states that you don't do this kind of stuff. And I always say being a student athlete is a privilege, not a right.
I'd be shocked if the student handbook says "No orgies off campus in a private residence."
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  #72  
Old 12-27-16, 11:51 AM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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I didn't take the time to look at Minnesota's policy.
Ohio State has a 16 page sexual misconduct policy.
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  #73  
Old 12-27-16, 11:55 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Does it say "No orgies at off campus private residences"

Edit: A quick search of OSU's policy does not prohibit group sex. Sorry nutsnbolts, but you can't run the lives of college students. They aren't your slaves.

https://hr.osu.edu/public/documents/.../policy115.pdf
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  #74  
Old 12-27-16, 12:15 PM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Does it say "No orgies at off campus private residences"

Edit: A quick search of OSU's policy does not prohibit group sex. Sorry nutsnbolts, but you can't run the lives of college students. They aren't your slaves.

https://hr.osu.edu/public/documents/.../policy115.pdf
But - it does have some other interesting statements that may or may not apply.

I'm trying to have an adult discussion. Why are you acting like such a child?

I hope their defense attorneys have a little more brains than to just claim the absence of one particular quote.
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  #75  
Old 12-27-16, 12:21 PM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Has there been a story that went from 0-60 then 60-0 faster than this story? Once the players actually found out what happened ( and probably some coercing from Mom and Dad, they quickly did a 180 and decided the game was a privilege.
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  #76  
Old 12-27-16, 12:26 PM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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It will be interesting to see how they perform later today.
Washington State would be a tough game for them under normal circumstances.
Will these events tear them apart or galvanize them?
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  #77  
Old 12-27-16, 01:01 PM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsnbolts View Post
But - it does have some other interesting statements that may or may not apply.

I'm trying to have an adult discussion. Why are you acting like such a child?

I hope their defense attorneys have a little more brains than to just claim the absence of one particular quote.
Please provide one example in OSU's policy that could possibly apply to prohibition of group sex in a private residence off campus. I'll wait.
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  #78  
Old 12-28-16, 09:44 AM
nutsnbolts nutsnbolts is offline
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Congrats to Minnesota!
Holding WSU without a touchdown until less than a minute left was incredible.
This was about the players at the game - and they performed well!
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  #79  
Old 12-28-16, 10:17 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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Originally Posted by nutsnbolts View Post
Congrats to Minnesota!
Holding WSU without a touchdown until less than a minute left was incredible.
This was about the players at the game - and they performed well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Lahey View Post
Please provide one example in OSU's policy that could possibly apply to prohibition of group sex in a private residence off campus. I'll wait.
I'm waiting.
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  #80  
Old 12-28-16, 11:35 AM
14Red 14Red is offline
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Hats off to the Gophers defense, what an effort. Sometimes kids use adversity to band together and accomplish a goal. Good way for them to end the season. But otherwise, a horrible game to watch.
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  #81  
Old 12-28-16, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by 14Red View Post
Hats off to the Gophers defense, what an effort. Sometimes kids use adversity to band together and accomplish a goal. Good way for them to end the season. But otherwise, a horrible game to watch.
I even think the Minn offense wanted it more and showed on their last drive where the RB could have just dropped to the ground and punished the defense onto a first down. The Minn coaches were far better too. I think Minn held Wash St to their least amount if yards this season or very close to it.
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  #82  
Old 01-03-17, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsnbolts View Post
So, are you stating that IF they willingly signed a scholarship offer with a "code of conduct" clause their signature means nothing?
Regardless of any signatures, no student code of conduct can supersede the United States Constitution, at least as far as a public university is concerned.

Minnesota has already found this out the hard way previously, and they have stupidly decided to try their luck again.

http://www.titleixforall.com/problem...behavior-ccsb/

The County Attorney has reviewed the UofM's latest report, and hasn't changed his conclusion about the case.

http://www.startribune.com/county-at...ers/408848555/

The UofM is going to get smoked in court when the lawsuits start raining down. Bank on it.
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  #83  
Old 01-03-17, 11:46 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Originally Posted by nutsnbolts View Post
Congrats to Minnesota!
Holding WSU without a touchdown until less than a minute left was incredible.
This was about the players at the game - and they performed well!
Who was the dipwad that called the Gophers a MAC program ?
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  #84  
Old 01-03-17, 11:49 AM
cabezadecaballo cabezadecaballo is offline
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Yappi, this is a MAC program. The bottom half of the big ten is the MAC. Now they would retain some of their current players. The ones that had no sense and decided to run with the crowd. But they'd be fine in a few years.


Quote:
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Hats off to the Gophers defense, what an effort. Sometimes kids use adversity to band together and accomplish a goal. Good way for them to end the season. But otherwise, a horrible game to watch.
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  #85  
Old 01-04-17, 02:12 PM
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Now it looks like they've run the coach-

http://www.si.com/college-football/2...d-coach-search
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  #86  
Old 01-04-17, 06:33 PM
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Now it looks like they've run the coach-

http://www.si.com/college-football/2...d-coach-search
Minnesota's football program is going to go down the tubes. Put a fork in it; it's done.

http://www.startribune.com/jerry-kil...ers/409680435/

There's no way I'd take that job if I was PJ Fleck. Guys are going to be transferring out left and right. Minnesota isn't going to see the likes of a Cotton Bowl any time soon.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...ncos/96093804/
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  #87  
Old 01-04-17, 10:33 PM
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They self-destructed their football program... Can't see any decent coach stepping into this mess.. The AD will have his head in the guilitine before he knows it... Maybe Glen Mason will return to the sidelines ... Wondering if this may be a case of the AD looking to fire the coach he didn't hire and Claeys gave him the chance with his comments.. This still is pretty senseless for a school that not so long ago put a significant amount of cash into their program.
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  #88  
Old 01-05-17, 08:25 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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The AD and President have already met with Fleck in Chicago. Good call, kent.
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  #89  
Old 01-05-17, 10:59 PM
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The AD and President have already met with Fleck in Chicago. Good call, kent.
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Wondering if this may be a case of the AD looking to fire the coach he didn't hire and Claeys gave him the chance with his comments..
Maybe fleck was in the cards when the story first broke.
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  #90  
Old 01-06-17, 08:16 AM
Jim Lahey Jim Lahey is offline
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That's all fine and dandy. However you said you can't see any decent coach stepping into this mess. Yet here we are, within 24 hours of the firing and both Fleck and Les Miles have met with the AD.
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