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  #5821  
Old 01-20-17, 03:46 PM
USA70PP USA70PP is offline
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I read through this thread and a recurring theme is "numbers". How about two weeks before the start of the regular season, or some other time, place schools in divisions based on the number of players on the squad?
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  #5822  
Old 01-20-17, 04:58 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA70PP View Post
I read through this thread and a recurring theme is "numbers". How about two weeks before the start of the regular season, or some other time, place schools in divisions based on the number of players on the squad?
I had a nephew who played football. He was a bench player who got in a play or two when the game was out of hand. Under this proposal he gets cut.

It seems there is pervasive thought that if we apply the right rules to EVERY school in the state then EVERY year EVERY school will have the same chance to win a state title as every other school. This is going to end up being worse than all the tax laws Congress passes. You're going to need a mathematician to figure out what division you're in.
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  #5823  
Old 01-24-17, 09:02 AM
Journey Journey is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
I had a nephew who played football. He was a bench player who got in a play or two when the game was out of hand. Under this proposal he gets cut.
That's on the (sh*tty) coach. If you're cutting kids for the chance at the opportunity to play weaker tournament teams, you're probably not competent enough to make the tournament in the first place.
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  #5824  
Old 01-24-17, 10:03 AM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Originally Posted by Journey View Post
That's on the (sh*tty) coach. If you're cutting kids for the chance at the opportunity to play weaker tournament teams, you're probably not competent enough to make the tournament in the first place.
The coach and the school's administration. Cutting kids to try to change your division placement is reprehensible. Let the kids play. That's what high school sports are about.
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  #5825  
Old 01-24-17, 05:46 PM
hoser hoser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
I had a nephew who played football. He was a bench player who got in a play or two when the game was out of hand. Under this proposal he gets cut.

It seems there is pervasive thought that if we apply the right rules to EVERY school in the state then EVERY year EVERY school will have the same chance to win a state title as every other school. This is going to end up being worse than all the tax laws Congress passes. You're going to need a mathematician to figure out what division you're in.
Uh, sorry there birdman. Uh if mommy and daddy spend the long green, you better believe junior will be on the team. He may never see the field, but he will be in that team photo. Uh, money talks and bull sh*t walks.
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  #5826  
Old 01-24-17, 07:20 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
I had a nephew who played football. He was a bench player who got in a play or two when the game was out of hand. Under this proposal he gets cut.

It seems there is pervasive thought that if we apply the right rules to EVERY school in the state then EVERY year EVERY school will have the same chance to win a state title as every other school. This is going to end up being worse than all the tax laws Congress passes. You're going to need a mathematician to figure out what division you're in.
This is a good point. I'm all in favor of eliminating six divisions and having one true state champion. The MAC schools would do just fine under such a system, right?
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  #5827  
Old 01-25-17, 10:06 AM
ComoCat ComoCat is offline
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Are there any rumblings this will be delayed another year? When will the new divisions be released?
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  #5828  
Old 01-25-17, 10:10 AM
Journey Journey is offline
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Originally Posted by ComoCat View Post
Are there any rumblings this will be delayed another year? When will the new divisions be released?
No.
I don't know.
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  #5829  
Old 01-25-17, 10:23 AM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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I do not think divisions can be released until after school starts. Since the number of open enrolled etc makes a bigger difference now. Use to be Divisions were done every two years now if I am not wrong they will have to be done each year. Basketball has started this season and the numbers had to be reported by Dec 23 if I am not wrong, well into the season.
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  #5830  
Old 01-25-17, 01:10 PM
dograt dograt is offline
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divisions in May. competitive balance numbers are from a year in the past. This years tier numbers affect next years team, not this years.
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  #5831  
Old 01-25-17, 05:35 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
This is a good point. I'm all in favor of eliminating six divisions and having one true state champion. The MAC schools would do just fine under such a system, right?
No MAC school would ever qualify for the playoffs. Only the biggest schools would have a chance. But let's do it. One division. 16 total teams in the playoffs. And let's separate public and private too. I'll support it.
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  #5832  
Old 01-25-17, 08:09 PM
19AL63 19AL63 is offline
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Someone above posted that his relative would get cut and that is not true. It is enrollment of boys in the school not number out for football.
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  #5833  
Old 01-25-17, 08:21 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
Someone above posted that his relative would get cut and that is not true. It is enrollment of boys in the school not number out for football.
That was in reply to someone who suggested we put teams in divisions by the number of players on the team. It's not part of anything official and never should be.
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  #5834  
Old 01-25-17, 08:27 PM
Bennies'01 Bennies'01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
No MAC school would ever qualify for the playoffs. Only the biggest schools would have a chance. But let's do it. One division. 16 total teams in the playoffs. And let's separate public and private too. I'll support it.
No need. One true state champion. All schools, public, private, and other in the same division.
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  #5835  
Old 01-25-17, 08:35 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19AL63 View Post
Someone above posted that his relative would get cut and that is not true. It is enrollment of boys in the school not number out for football.
Your comment is incorrect. The number of kids on the team DOES count toward the final number used to determine divisional placement.
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  #5836  
Old 01-25-17, 09:42 PM
aged jock aged jock is offline
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CBP looks at the number of players in the program, grades 9 through 12. Some (less than a majority, in most cases) who are from the "feeder" public school district chosen by the private school in the sport program (i.e., football).

Since no public school district can possibly contain a sufficient number of private school students to sustain a private school, most private school players will count as outside the "feeder" system, and therefore as at least two and in substantial numbers, as three students. So, instead of 100 students in football, the count will be more like 200 students in football.

The extra 100 are then added to the raw count of boys in grades 9 through 11, which may be 230, for an adjusted total of 330.

A similarly situated, closed enrollment public school would have no adjustment, and remain at 230.

It would have been more honest to simply move all private schools up a division.
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  #5837  
Old 01-25-17, 09:59 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackinbiner View Post
Your comment is incorrect. The number of kids on the team DOES count toward the final number used to determine divisional placement.
So Team A and Team B have identical enrollments. Team A has 80 kids on the team while Team B has 40. You're telling me Team A will be moved up solely because they have more kids on the team?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
No need. One true state champion. All schools, public, private, and other in the same division.
Give me some details. How would a team qualify for the playoffs? Are we using the Harbins? How many teams make the playoffs?
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  #5838  
Old 01-25-17, 10:04 PM
Mackinbiner Mackinbiner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
So Team A and Team B have identical enrollments. Team A has 80 kids on the team while Team B has 40. You're telling me Team A will be moved up solely because they have more kids on the team?
No. I wasn't fully clear on my statement. It would come down to the makeup (Tier Levels) of each player.

This can help. http://www.ohsaa.org/Portals/0/Schoo...Balance101.pdf
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  #5839  
Old 01-25-17, 10:10 PM
Flood Flood is offline
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Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
No need. One true state champion. All schools, public, private, and other in the same division.
Love it.

That way we crown the BEST team in the state as "state champion," not the 39th best team in the state, along with the 48th best team, along with the 56th best team, along with the 108th best team, along with the 112th best team, along with the 126th best team in the state as "state champion."
Silliness.
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  #5840  
Old 01-26-17, 09:36 AM
Con_Alma Con_Alma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
No need. One true state champion. All schools, public, private, and other in the same division.
I'd support this also.
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  #5841  
Old 01-26-17, 01:11 PM
TriangleMan TriangleMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aged jock View Post
CBP looks at the number of players in the program, grades 9 through 12. Some (less than a majority, in most cases) who are from the "feeder" public school district chosen by the private school in the sport program (i.e., football).
I understand the CBP tier concept, but I still don't understand why the seniors on this past season's roster are included in the tier count to reach the final adjusted number. Keep it like it always was where only those in grades 9-11 factor into anything (initial count of all boys 9-11 + tiered counts of 9-11 on this past seasons' rosters).
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  #5842  
Old 01-26-17, 01:29 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennies'01 View Post
No need. One true state champion. All schools, public, private, and other in the same division.
Should this be for all sports?

Still wondering how you set up the football playoffs with this. Care to finally share?
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  #5843  
Old 01-26-17, 02:17 PM
Flood Flood is offline
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I'll take a shot. Take the top 32 teams based on computer points, 5 weeks of playoffs and bam...state champion.

If the 102nd best team in the state wants to be a "state champion," then they'd need to start scheduling up (and winning) in the regular season. This would ultimately and truly end the "everybody gets a trophy" argument.

If we only have one champion for football, then we definitely don't need more than one champion in other sports.
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  #5844  
Old 01-26-17, 03:25 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
I'll take a shot. Take the top 32 teams based on computer points, 5 weeks of playoffs and bam...state champion.
Unfortunately, your format leaves out some of the best teams in the state. Harbins are not a good indicator of how good a team can be. St X would not have made it and based off your argument, playing up actually hurt them due to not getting enough Harbins, even though it may have better prepared them for a long run.

If this was the format, scheduling across the state would change dramatically, likely going the way of easier schedules so they get in the playoffs with Harbins vs the tougher ones that you say would be necessary to win.

He is how that bracket would have shaken up for 2016:

1 Olentangy Liberty vs
32 St St Ignatius

2 Colerain
31 Warren Harding

3 HH Wayne
30 Heath

4 Solon
29 Mantua Crestwood

5 Toledo CC
28 Clrk Clinton-Massie

6 Hilliard Bradley
27 Cin Wyoming

7 Pickerington Central
26 Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy

8 Avon
25 Stow-Munroe Falls

9 Holland Springfield
24 Lak. St Edward

10 St Francis DeSales
23 Perry (D4)

11 Troy
22 Massillon Washington

12 Dublin Jerome
21 LaSalle

13 Aurora
20 Massillon Perry

14 Franklin
19 Alliance Marlington

15 Cin Turpin
18 Grafton Midview

16 Chardon
17 Dublin Coffman
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  #5845  
Old 01-26-17, 03:33 PM
Blue Jay Fan Blue Jay Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
I'll take a shot. Take the top 32 teams based on computer points, 5 weeks of playoffs and bam...state champion.

If the 102nd best team in the state wants to be a "state champion," then they'd need to start scheduling up (and winning) in the regular season. This would ultimately and truly end the "everybody gets a trophy" argument.

If we only have one champion for football, then we definitely don't need more than one champion in other sports.
But if it's only ONE division, isn't EVERY team worth the same number of computer points? Vanlue and St. Ignatius are both in the same division. Obviously both are worth the same amount of computer points.

How long will the basketball tournament last if you have to go through 700+ teams?
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  #5846  
Old 01-26-17, 03:38 PM
Journey Journey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
Unfortunately, your format leaves out some of the best teams in the state. Harbins are not a good indicator of how good a team can be. St X would not have made it and based off your argument, playing up actually hurt them due to not getting enough Harbins, even though it may have better prepared them for a long run.

If this was the format, scheduling across the state would change dramatically, likely going the way of easier schedules so they get in the playoffs with Harbins vs the tougher ones that you say would be necessary to win.

He is how that bracket would have shaken up for 2016:

1 Olentangy Liberty vs
32 St St Ignatius

2 Colerain
31 Warren Harding

3 HH Wayne
30 Heath

4 Solon
29 Mantua Crestwood

5 Toledo CC
28 Clrk Clinton-Massie

6 Hilliard Bradley
27 Cin Wyoming

7 Pickerington Central
26 Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy

8 Avon
25 Stow-Munroe Falls

9 Holland Springfield
24 Lak. St Edward

10 St Francis DeSales
23 Perry (D4)

11 Troy
22 Massillon Washington

12 Dublin Jerome
21 LaSalle

13 Aurora
20 Massillon Perry

14 Franklin
19 Alliance Marlington

15 Cin Turpin
18 Grafton Midview

16 Chardon
17 Dublin Coffman
Great work!


But I hate it lol.
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  #5847  
Old 01-26-17, 03:40 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post
But if it's only ONE division, isn't EVERY team worth the same number of computer points? Vanlue and St. Ignatius are both in the same division. Obviously both are worth the same amount of computer points.

How long will the basketball tournament last if you have to go through 700+ teams?
Agreed, Yes, they would be. So just schedule small schools to get you enough points. It would be all 10-0/9-1 teams in the playoffs, regardless of who they played or how good they are. Now does that mean they go far, nope, but the good teams that play up, might not even get in even if they loose 1 /2 games.

I did the above as an example, i was not going to recalculate all computer points for every division
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  #5848  
Old 01-26-17, 03:43 PM
The Veer The Veer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Journey View Post
Great work!


But I hate it lol.

I never thought i would say this, but i agree with Journey !
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  #5849  
Old 01-26-17, 03:47 PM
Flood Flood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
Unfortunately, your format leaves out some of the best teams in the state.
According to whom? You?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
Harbins are not a good indicator of how good a team can be.
Then why are they used?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
St X would not have made it and based off your argument, playing up actually hurt them due to not getting enough Harbins, even though it may have better prepared them for a long run.
So what? That would be their fault. They'd get enough Harbins if they won more of their games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
If this was the format, scheduling across the state would change dramatically,
So? Who likes same ole, same ole?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
likely going the way of easier schedules so they get in the playoffs with Harbins vs the tougher ones that you say would be necessary to win.
Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Veer View Post
He is how that bracket would have shaken up for 2016:

1 Olentangy Liberty vs
32 St St Ignatius

2 Colerain
31 Warren Harding

3 HH Wayne
30 Heath

4 Solon
29 Mantua Crestwood

5 Toledo CC
28 Clrk Clinton-Massie

6 Hilliard Bradley
27 Cin Wyoming

7 Pickerington Central
26 Cincinnati Hills Christian Academy

8 Avon
25 Stow-Munroe Falls

9 Holland Springfield
24 Lak. St Edward

10 St Francis DeSales
23 Perry (D4)

11 Troy
22 Massillon Washington

12 Dublin Jerome
21 LaSalle

13 Aurora
20 Massillon Perry

14 Franklin
19 Alliance Marlington

15 Cin Turpin
18 Grafton Midview

16 Chardon
17 Dublin Coffman
Looks great to me. What's the problem? The best team in the state would be champion. St. X should have won more games in the regular season.

Last edited by Flood; 01-26-17 at 04:14 PM.
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  #5850  
Old 01-26-17, 03:51 PM
Flood Flood is offline
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Originally Posted by Blue Jay Fan View Post

How long will the basketball tournament last if you have to go through 700+ teams?
How did they do it in Hoosiers? Maybe everyone shouldn't qualify for the playoffs.
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