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  #91  
Old 10-24-13, 11:55 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerPaw View Post
Interesting. Sigh. A minute to go and during a furious comeback, so I would agree. Ultimately time expired on 3rd and goal. But, key word "discretion" so thems the breaks I guess.

Thank you.
The discretion comes into play depending on the situation itself.

If the clock was stopped immediately or almost immediately after the play, then the Referee should start the clock on the ready for play. If there was any delay before the injury was evident, then starting the clock on the snap would be in order.
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  #92  
Old 10-24-13, 12:32 PM
purplenova purplenova is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Yes, the horse collar rule is very specific. The runner actually has to be tackled and he has to come down backward. The tell tale sign of a horse collar is seeing the knees buckle. Remember, it has to be a tackle. Just grabbing it doesn't mean it's a horse collar. Also, it has to be by the equipment, not the jersey.

Yes, 5 yard and 15 yard facemask still exist in high school.
REALLY ????? there was an obvious tackle by Wayne against Centerville this past Friday. The call was Horse Collar.... Directly in front of the chain gang couple yards away from that side judge, a hand full of jersey !!!! No equipment !!! and as the tackler had the back of the jersey, that side judge was already reaching for his flag.

WOW !!! thanks for the clarification !!!!
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  #93  
Old 10-24-13, 01:14 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
Pushing the pile is legal.

This is a classic example of a rule and an interpretation that is given to officials during their ongoing training and rules meetings. This subject comes up every year, and every year you will have people claiming that pushing the pile is illegal.

It all comes down to the judgment of the covering officials. Just like any other foul.
So if pushing the pile is legal, then what is illegal?
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  #94  
Old 10-24-13, 01:19 PM
SW OH Official SW OH Official is offline
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I would like it pointed out that this thread was meant for me specifically to answer questions. If you are not an OHSAA certified Class 1 official, please do not answer questions regarding situations.

For example, BB9, if you were an official, you would know that the horse collar tackle is meant for jersey and equipment, pulled to the back or side.

When you get too many people trying to answer questions, it can be confusing and someone will give or receive wrong info.
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  #95  
Old 10-24-13, 01:22 PM
SW OH Official SW OH Official is offline
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EastYoungstown,

The aiding the runner rule is specifically designed to prevent someone from directly influencing the ball carriers advancement. For example, you cannot pick up a ball carrier and carry him, you cannot push him forward to avoid a tackle or to gain a first down or touch down.

By pushing the pile, you may or may not influence the runner, but not directly.
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  #96  
Old 10-24-13, 01:39 PM
EastYoungstown EastYoungstown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
EastYoungstown,

The aiding the runner rule is specifically designed to prevent someone from directly influencing the ball carriers advancement. For example, you cannot pick up a ball carrier and carry him, you cannot push him forward to avoid a tackle or to gain a first down or touch down.

By pushing the pile, you may or may not influence the runner, but not directly.
I knew picking up the ballcarrier was definitely illegal, but i wasn't sure what else was.

I see variations of pushing and helping the ballcarrier an awful lot and was curious where the line was.

thanks!
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  #97  
Old 10-24-13, 04:17 PM
Orange82 Orange82 is offline
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I am curious about the HS rule of something I saw in a college game. A punted ball hit the ground and was rolling around. A player from the kicking team literally picked up the punt returner off the ground and tried to drop him on top of the ball to make contact with it. Never seen anything like it and was wondering if there would be any type of penalty called? Nothing was called in the college game.
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  #98  
Old 10-24-13, 06:57 PM
purplenova purplenova is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
I would like it pointed out that this thread was meant for me specifically to answer questions. If you are not an OHSAA certified Class 1 official, please do not answer questions regarding situations.

For example, BB9, if you were an official, you would know that the horse collar tackle is meant for jersey and equipment, pulled to the back or side.

When you get too many people trying to answer questions, it can be confusing and someone will give or receive wrong info.
In response to my own post, regarding bb9 answer. The jersey is or is not exempt from horse collar ruling.
Thank you .
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  #99  
Old 10-24-13, 09:13 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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I was wrong (which I admitted earlier). The jersey is part of the rule.
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  #100  
Old 10-24-13, 09:22 PM
SW OH Official SW OH Official is offline
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Orange,

Nothing wrong with this. First touching by the return team would be ignored and a good officual would kill that play immediately.
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  #101  
Old 10-24-13, 09:28 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
I would like it pointed out that this thread was meant for me specifically to answer questions. If you are not an OHSAA certified Class 1 official, please do not answer questions regarding situations.

For example, BB9, if you were an official, you would know that the horse collar tackle is meant for jersey and equipment, pulled to the back or side.

When you get too many people trying to answer questions, it can be confusing and someone will give or receive wrong info.
I apologize for giving bad info. I'm sure it's not the first time either one of us gave an incorrect interpretation. Anyway, I can be a valuable resource here if you would like me to. If not, I will stay away.
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  #102  
Old 10-24-13, 10:10 PM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange82 View Post
I am curious about the HS rule of something I saw in a college game. A punted ball hit the ground and was rolling around. A player from the kicking team literally picked up the punt returner off the ground and tried to drop him on top of the ball to make contact with it. Never seen anything like it and was wondering if there would be any type of penalty called? Nothing was called in the college game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
Orange,

Nothing wrong with this. First touching by the return team would be ignored and a good officual would kill that play immediately.
I have three issues with this response.

First, a player from K "literally picked up" the returner (without the ball) from R and tried to place him on top of the ball. At the minimum, you have a foul for holding (by rule) against K.

Next, you use the term "first touching" in an incorrect manner. Surely you know that "first touching " is a specific definition that refers only to players from the kicking team, not a touch by the receiving team.

Lastly, I'm astonished that you would suggest that a good official would blow this play dead.
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  #103  
Old 10-25-13, 12:44 AM
WARRIORS_94 WARRIORS_94 is offline
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Hey Ref got a question for ya!

If a player is making a tackle and is flagged for gabbing the facemask (in the 5 yard variety) does that player still get credit for the tackle or is that play voided by the penalty?
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  #104  
Old 10-25-13, 07:15 AM
SW OH Official SW OH Official is offline
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That is a statistics question, not a rules question.
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  #105  
Old 10-25-13, 07:20 AM
SW OH Official SW OH Official is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllSports12 View Post
I have three issues with this response.

First, a player from K "literally picked up" the returner (without the ball) from R and tried to place him on top of the ball. At the minimum, you have a foul for holding (by rule) against K.

Next, you use the term "first touching" in an incorrect manner. Surely you know that "first touching " is a specific definition that refers only to players from the kicking team, not a touch by the receiving team.

Lastly, I'm astonished that you would suggest that a good official would blow this play dead.
Holding during a loose ball play? Good luck explaining that. Having not watched the play myself, I can only picture it. And I wouldn't call a hold on a loose ball play anyway.

Meant to just say touching. Old habit I guess...

He wasn't specific on whether the player was successful in putting the K player on the ball. If he was, I am killing that play. If he wasn't, then certainly you would let the play continue.
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  #106  
Old 10-25-13, 07:21 AM
SW OH Official SW OH Official is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
I apologize for giving bad info. I'm sure it's not the first time either one of us gave an incorrect interpretation. Anyway, I can be a valuable resource here if you would like me to. If not, I will stay away.
As you can see from below, even I make mistakes. I welcome Class 1 Varsity officials to participate. I just didn't want this to turn into a thread where people who think they "know football" to start flapping their gums...
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  #107  
Old 10-25-13, 07:23 AM
ohiopup ohiopup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARRIORS_94 View Post
Hey Ref got a question for ya!

If a player is making a tackle and is flagged for gabbing the facemask (in the 5 yard variety) does that player still get credit for the tackle or is that play voided by the penalty?
That is not a rules question for the REF but a STATS question.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_...all/2013ez.pdf

:>---

I have scars, that's like tattoos but with better stories.

Last edited by ohiopup; 10-26-13 at 04:26 PM. Reason: typo
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  #108  
Old 10-25-13, 07:59 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
As you can see from below, even I make mistakes. I welcome Class 1 Varsity officials to participate. I just didn't want this to turn into a thread where people who think they "know football" to start flapping their gums...
Agree. Luckily, I meet the criteria.

I will just make sure to think about what I am posting before I post it in the future.
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  #109  
Old 10-25-13, 10:47 AM
AllSports12 AllSports12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
Holding during a loose ball play? Good luck explaining that.
I don't have any problem explaining the All-But-One penalty enforcement principle to anyone. It's one of our Football Fundamentals that every official should know inside and out. Furthermore, the Case Book is chock full of plays where loose ball fouls and their enforcements are explained. Beginning on Page 95 there is a series of case plays regarding penalty enforcement that include 5 specific plays where a holding foul occurs during a loose ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
And I wouldn't call a hold on a loose ball play anyway.
3rd an 10 from A's own 20 yard line. A12 is in the shotgun and the snap sails over his head. The ball is loose and rolling backwards at A's 8 yard line where B56 is about to scoop up the ball and advance it for a sure touchdown. Before B56 touches the loose ball, A12 tackles him by the ankles from behind allowing A81 to recover and advance the ball to A's 22 yard line.....

Are you telling me you are going to ignore A12's tackle of B56 during a loose ball?

Last edited by AllSports12; 10-25-13 at 02:25 PM.
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  #110  
Old 10-25-13, 04:50 PM
hare_2002 hare_2002 is offline
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I want to thank the referee (SW OH Official) who is answering these questions... this is one of the best threads on yappi.
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  #111  
Old 10-25-13, 09:26 PM
tom_hsfootball_fan tom_hsfootball_fan is offline
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In the first possession of OT, the offense commits a series of major penalties and is backed up near their own goal line. In the shotgun, the ball is snapped over the head of the QB and goes into the end zone. The defense recovers the ball in the end zone for what would be, in regulation, a touchdown. But, in this situation... is it?
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  #112  
Old 10-25-13, 11:04 PM
chocolatecity chocolatecity is offline
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Question....If a defensive back makes a play on an incomplete pass and walks away making an incomplete signal is that taunting????
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  #113  
Old 10-26-13, 07:41 AM
hsfan60 hsfan60 is offline
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Sw Oh

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW OH Official View Post
I would like it pointed out that this thread was meant for me specifically to answer questions. If you are not an OHSAA certified Class 1 official, please do not answer questions regarding situations.

For example, BB9, if you were an official, you would know that the horse collar tackle is meant for jersey and equipment, pulled to the back or side.

When you get too many people trying to answer questions, it can be confusing and someone will give or receive wrong info.
Sorry I chimed in on a few threads, although not an official I have coached for 47 years and try to know the rule book. I will not chime in unless in question clarification mode? Coach Bull

Last edited by hsfan60; 10-26-13 at 10:52 PM.
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  #114  
Old 10-26-13, 09:04 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_hsfootball_fan View Post
In the first possession of OT, the offense commits a series of major penalties and is backed up near their own goal line. In the shotgun, the ball is snapped over the head of the QB and goes into the end zone. The defense recovers the ball in the end zone for what would be, in regulation, a touchdown. But, in this situation... is it?
Here is a link to our mechanic book:

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/...dsHandbook.pdf

Page 29 sets OT procedures

3. Definition: An OT Period is defined as the Home Team (HT) &Visiting Team (VT) each having a series.

10. COP: If B gains possession, ball is dead immediately. As series has ended.

11. Scoring: A team may score by TD, FG, & Try ONLY. If A scores a TD, then do the Try, unless points would not affect the game outcome. Team with the most points at the end of an OT Period wins. Final score: Combine points scored in regulation & all OT Periods.
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  #115  
Old 10-26-13, 09:07 AM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chocolatecity View Post
Question....If a defensive back makes a play on an incomplete pass and walks away making an incomplete signal is that taunting????
http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/...dsHandbook.pdf

Page 42 lists all the Unsportsmanlike Acts. That one is not clearly defined but could be a penalty if he does it taunting a specific player or a team's bench. If just gets up and does it, I probably have nothing.
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  #116  
Old 10-26-13, 09:42 AM
chocolatecity chocolatecity is offline
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thank you bb9
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  #117  
Old 10-26-13, 03:31 PM
tom_hsfootball_fan tom_hsfootball_fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bb9 View Post
Here is a link to our mechanic book:

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/ft/boys/...dsHandbook.pdf

Page 29 sets OT procedures

3. Definition: An OT Period is defined as the Home Team (HT) &Visiting Team (VT) each having a series.

10. COP: If B gains possession, ball is dead immediately. As series has ended.

11. Scoring: A team may score by TD, FG, & Try ONLY. If A scores a TD, then do the Try, unless points would not affect the game outcome. Team with the most points at the end of an OT Period wins. Final score: Combine points scored in regulation & all OT Periods.
Doesn't really answer the question.
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  #118  
Old 10-26-13, 04:43 PM
88streaks 88streaks is offline
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What kind of rules does HS football have about Helmet to Helmet contact? At the Lake/Fitch game last night, Fitch's QB rolled out left & crossed the line of scrimmage. Lake's OLB came up from coverage and tackled him high(facemask to facemask). Lake received a 15 yd penalty and the ref's signal was "knocking on the head" motion.
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  #119  
Old 10-26-13, 08:47 PM
bb9 bb9 is offline
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Originally Posted by tom_hsfootball_fan View Post
Doesn't really answer the question.
The defense cannot score in overtime. So it would just be the end of the offense's series.

You are right, the Gold Book is very vague on that. That is the correct ruling, though.

Last edited by bb9; 10-26-13 at 09:58 PM.
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  #120  
Old 10-26-13, 09:49 PM
COLTCOUNTRY COLTCOUNTRY is offline
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What about face masking by the ball carrier? Does it ever get called? I have seen some pretty serious face masking done by the ball carrier usually during a stiff arm. I understand the face mask rule cause someone could get hurt etc. I have seen some defensive players get their head almost twisted off by the ball carrier.
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